Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Fuji X Series > Fuji X-Pro Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 12-06-2016   #41
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by krötenblender View Post

One drawback is, that I find the Leica-lenses not very usable on the X-Pro1. Granted, you can adapt them and the electronic RF simulation works pretty good. But with the adapter the lenses are not that small anymore on the camera, you don't have the same field of view (crop 1,5) and the camera just does't feel right with the non-native lenses (I think, this is very much your own experience, but for me...).
There is a Fuji/Leica adapter coming out that will get rid of the 1.5x crop factor while also increase the total amount of light that hits the sensor.

Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-06-2016   #42
danielsterno
making soup from mud
 
danielsterno's Avatar
 
danielsterno is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
There is a Fuji/Leica adapter coming out that will get rid of the 1.5x crop factor while also increase the total amount of light that hits the sensor.

Shawn
Hi- Shawn: Can you shed a little more light on that? I am about to rent a XP2 and being I have some Leica glass, I would be very interested in such adapter. Is it a 3rd party or Fuji adapter.... Thanks in advance
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-06-2016   #43
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 374
3rd party adapter and I don't think it is available yet.

http://www.kipon.com/en/articledetail.asp?id=100

This is the same idea as the Speedbooster or Lens Turbo II adapters that are available for Nikon,Canon and m42 lenses on Fuji and other APS-C cameras.

XP2 is a *fantastic* camera. When you rent one your first step should be resetting it to factory default... just in case an earlier renter set it up funky.

In some ways it is similar to your x100, but in many other ways it is totally different.

Think x100 spirit but with the speed and ability of a very good DSLR. It outshot my D700 and I ended up selling the D700. (And I have shot Nikon since the 80s)

BTW, if you try adapted lenses on the XP2...
I like shooting adapted lenses and using the lower zoomed in focus point in the ERF mode. Put the camera in monochrome (shoot RAW if you want color images) and use red focus peaking. Just frame with the OVF and adjust focus... when you see red in the bottom corner you are focused. You don't even have to look at it, just watch for red in your peripheral vision. It lets you focus adapted lenses while still taking advantage of the OVF itself.



Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-06-2016   #44
danielsterno
making soup from mud
 
danielsterno's Avatar
 
danielsterno is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
3rd party adapter and I don't think it is available yet.

http://www.kipon.com/en/articledetail.asp?id=100

This is the same idea as the Speedbooster or Lens Turbo II adapters that are available for Nikon,Canon and m42 lenses on Fuji and other APS-C cameras.

XP2 is a *fantastic* camera. When you rent one your first step should be resetting it to factory default... just in case an earlier renter set it up funky.

In some ways it is similar to your x100, but in many other ways it is totally different.

Think x100 spirit but with the speed and ability of a very good DSLR. It outshot my D700 and I ended up selling the D700. (And I have shot Nikon since the 80s)

BTW, if you try adapted lenses on the XP2...
I like shooting adapted lenses and using the lower zoomed in focus point in the ERF mode. Put the camera in monochrome (shoot RAW if you want color images) and use red focus peaking. Just frame with the OVF and adjust focus... when you see red in the bottom corner you are focused. You don't even have to look at it, just watch for red in your peripheral vision. It lets you focus adapted lenses while still taking advantage of the OVF itself.



Shawn
Shawn: Thank You very much! Kind of you... Ill keep my eye out for the adapter.... Whats your opinion of which Fuji lens to rent with the camera? I was thinking of the 23mmf2 or the pancake 27. I am mostly a 35 guy on my m6 and of course on x100 (though I do have the tele converter)... Thanks again!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-06-2016   #45
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 374
I haven't tried the 23f2 but have the 23 1.4 which is honestly one of my less used lenses... partially because of its size.

If you want the 27mm be aware that is one of the few lenses that does not have an aperture ring. Supposed to be a good lens though.

The 14mm is great, I have both 35s. The 35 f2 is great for its small size, weather resistance and faster focusing (more so in low light) but the 35 f1.4 is optically the better lens and renders nicer.

You might consider *blasphemy* the 18-55 to see how flexible that one lens can be and still work well in OVF mode.

You might even consider one of the telephoto zooms (50-200 maybe) to see how many different types of shooting the XP2 can handle with ease. It is a very capable camera.

Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-06-2016   #46
danielsterno
making soup from mud
 
danielsterno's Avatar
 
danielsterno is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
I haven't tried the 23f2 but have the 23 1.4 which is honestly one of my less used lenses... partially because of its size.

If you want the 27mm be aware that is one of the few lenses that does not have an aperture ring. Supposed to be a good lens though.

The 14mm is great, I have both 35s. The 35 f2 is great for its small size, weather resistance and faster focusing (more so in low light) but the 35 f1.4 is optically the better lens and renders nicer.

You might consider *blasphemy* the 18-55 to see how flexible that one lens can be and still work well in OVF mode.

You might even consider one of the telephoto zooms (50-200 maybe) to see how many different types of shooting the XP2 can handle with ease. It is a very capable camera.

Shawn
Thanks again!... placing the rental order tomorrow to get for the weekend/7 day rental.... Night!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #47
adamjbonn
Registered User
 
adamjbonn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Porto
Posts: 54
FWIW I think that the 2 cameras are sufficiently different to make choosing between them very difficult.... (YMMV)

In some ways... choosing between a Leica M and another camera is a LITTLE bit like trying to chose between say a Tag Heuer quartz chronograph and an automatic Rolex submariner no date

They're both watches, they both tell the time !!

They both cost more than many people would be happy to spend on a watch

One will be more accurate, and will be more likely to stay accurate, if it needs a new battery then many places will be able to fit one for you.

The other will have accuracy that will wander about over time, and if it needs work will need to go to a specialised repairer that's either OEM or OEM approved

One has more features, but the other has only the features that one might actually want and use

One has superior build quality, but the other is not so poorly built that you'll have likely a problem

One has some brand cachet, the other has more brand cachet

They both do a similar job, look vaguely similar, but are actually aimed at completely different market segments and budgets

One may give the user a sense of occasion, the other may give the user a wry smile in terms of features/brand cachet/value

Some will own both

Some will snort at the which ever one they didn't buy, laughing at those who paid more for what the spec sheet says at least, is a lesser product or snort at those who paid less and got what they think is a lesser product

There's no easy answer really

If budget is no problem, then there's possibly an argument for owning both

If budget is a problem, then that might decide for you

If either is doable, but one is a stretch, then think very carefully

At the end of the day, one takes an image that looks like the first shot, the other the second

(One shot is a M262 and 50 cron, the other a X-Pro2 and XF35)


Image One.jpg


Image Two.jpg

Now I might think I prefer the top image, or is it the second?

I forget...

But IMHO, it's kinda the same shot, but actually quite different... Some things are nicer in one shot over the other and vice versa - but neither is so far from the other for the gap not to be closed in PP or in camera exposure (IMHO, YMMV)

So, perhaps this is a decision that the heart not the head should decide?
__________________
Cheers
Adam
http://adambonn.com
The largest X-Pro1 opinion piece on the 'net! http://adambonn.com/my-love-affair-w...jifilm-x-pro1/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #48
uhoh7
Registered User
 
uhoh7 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleskin View Post
I am debating buying an X Pro-2 or a Leica M 262. I have been a Leica shooter since 1991, and have a ton of M lenses. My first digital was the M8, I then migrated to the X-Pro 1, feeling the for the money, the M9 and X Pro were about equal regarding image quality, and I wanted autofocus, and the hybrid viewfinder. I have since migrated to the A7r, and that really has been an awesome camera for my Noctilux, but hence, I miss the rangefinder experience for my wide street shooting, so today I am debating should I buy the new X-Pro 2 and save a ton of money or should I bite the bullet and get the M 262. I have 2 Fujinon lenses , the 18-55 and the 35 1.4. My M collection is 15 lenses from 15mm to 280mm. Image quality is issue #1, #2 is usability in the street, #3 is cost, but I may overlook that if the M262 would offer greater benefits.
262 is fantastic, but if money an issue plenty of used 240s and M9s etc. If you have the glass and enjoy RF, it's a no brainer.

X-pro2 is very nice camera. I've shot a bit with the XT-2, which many have left the A7 for. I shoot M9/A7.mod now and also RX1r2.

M is a window into a whole world, from the 30s to today. Good as the X-pro2 is, it can't go there. Not to deny in many circumstances, the output is excellent.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #49
jamesbf
Registered User
 
jamesbf is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 83
I used an X-Pro1 between the M8 and M240 that I'm using now. I've been using the M240 for over two years and I haven't thought twice about that old XPro1. So happy and grateful to use such a fine camera for my personal work.

Really, for me, its the experience that matters most.
__________________
flickr.com/photos/jamesbfeatherstone
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #50
Gregm61
Registered User
 
Gregm61 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 218
The only way to deal with this dilemma, of course, is do what I do and have both an AF system (Olympus E-M1) and Leica (M262). I waffle back and forth using one system over the other, often for weeks at a time.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #51
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
I shoot M9/A7.mod now and also RX1r2.
Hey, you must be the richer man's me!

Mainly M8, A6000, RX1R.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2016   #52
adamjbonn
Registered User
 
adamjbonn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Porto
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesbf View Post

Really, for me, its the experience that matters most.
Spot on, that's exactly what the decision boils down too
__________________
Cheers
Adam
http://adambonn.com
The largest X-Pro1 opinion piece on the 'net! http://adambonn.com/my-love-affair-w...jifilm-x-pro1/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2016   #53
Ko.Fe.
Me. Write ESL. Ko.
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Age: 50
Posts: 4,132
Well, for OP more details in the photo was important. Best method to get more details is
to set lens on f8-11 and on the tripod with cable release. I think, M262 is perfect for it.

M is the nicest experience, IMO, even for just hold and look at it. But with my experience with MF and AF, I'm hitting same wall twice now...

My problem with Leica M series is to get details of the object which is moving and aperture is large. It is next to impossible with M MF and f1.5, while with X series it isn't big deal with AF and f1.4, I guess.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2016   #54
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,570
Having been down the road of adapting Leica M (and R) lenses to other bodies several times, the best place for an M lens is on an M body, for me. And the second best place is on an SL body. In both these cases, the supplied Leica lens profile helps assure that the rendering qualities of the lens exhibit as they were intended and designed to, and you get the full field of view and depth of field characteristics that the lens was designed to provide.

If you have longer lenses, I'd strongly suggest the premium for the M typ 240 body is worth it because in that case live, TTL viewing and focusing makes a big difference.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2016   #55
Fotobot
Registered User
 
Fotobot is offline
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 49
This is an old topic but still relevant. Related to the original question about "usability in the street" ...

How does the X-Pro2's optical viewfinder compare in size and eye comfort to the viewfinder of a Leica M240/M262/M9? Is it about as comfortable, or noticeably smaller? I know there's a lot of extra info in the X-Pro2's viewfinder. But this question is more about seeing the subject and composition.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2016   #56
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 374
I can't compare directly to the Leica but based on specs for the 240 (.68 magnification) the Fuji will be either a lot smaller or a little bit smaller. The Fuji is either 0.60x or 0.36x. The Fuji's optical view finder changes magnification depending upon what lens you mount on it and you can also switch magnification yourself.

I think the frame lines are about 92% of the actual captured frame and they of course adjust for parallax and size as you focus and/or zoom the lens. If you use the ERF mode you can also have 100% framing coverage (and exposure) in the tiny EVF in the corner or magnified views of the focus point.

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/dig...s/page_02.html

That doesn't show the just OVF mode though where you don't have the small EVF in the corner.

Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-20-2016   #57
Fotobot
Registered User
 
Fotobot is offline
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 49
Thank you!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2016   #58
Dogman
Registered User
 
Dogman is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 602
I'm sure the decision has long been made but I'll join in with the opinions.

Personally, I would go with Fuji since I much prefer autofocus over manual focus. But...15 lenses for Leica vs 2 lenses for Fuji? Leica wins.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2016   #59
johnwolf
Registered User
 
johnwolf's Avatar
 
johnwolf is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotobot View Post
This is an old topic but still relevant. Related to the original question about "usability in the street" ...

How does the X-Pro2's optical viewfinder compare in size and eye comfort to the viewfinder of a Leica M240/M262/M9? Is it about as comfortable, or noticeably smaller? I know there's a lot of extra info in the X-Pro2's viewfinder. But this question is more about seeing the subject and composition.
Fotobot, I'm going from memory here and assuming the XP2 framelines are sized like those of the XP1. The Fuji has two frameline magnifications for each set, so it really depends on which you use.

I find the 35mm (50 FOV) framelines to be perfect on the Fuji. About like the 35mm framelines on an M9. (You can see all of them on google images.)

I also use the Fuji 27 and Voigtlander 25. I'd say the unmagnified framelines are about like 50mm on an M9. Smaller than I'd prefer but still very nice. The magnified versions fill the OVF and do not work for me.

Maybe if you identify your primary lens, the X-Pro2 users here can be of more help.

Overall, though, I find the Fuji OVF and frameline experience to be a real pleasure. I use the OVF 90% of the time and always feel right at home.

John
__________________
tumblr | Latest post: Photo Publication
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2016   #60
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 374
John,

The XP2 frame lines are like the XP1 but with a few differences. The XP2s are more accurate. When in MF mode with a Fuji lens the frame lines adjust for parallax and size as you focus the lens, on the XP1 they only jump into position when you half shutter press. The XP2 also has the function where you can display all common frame lines that some find useful.

And of course the XP1 does not have the ERF mode of the XP2, that is a huge difference and allows for MF of adapted lens while still using the optical view finder for framing.

Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2017   #61
Fotobot
Registered User
 
Fotobot is offline
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 49
Now that I have my own X-Pro2 and a 23mm f/1.4 lens, I see that the view through the X-Pro2's OVF is substantially smaller than the view through a Leica M viewfinder with a 35mm lens. The X-Pro2 shows the 0.38x magnification with this lens and it is "a lot smaller", as shawn accurately told me above. I can't say that it is comfortable or nice. But I guess it is one of the compromises one has to make in order to get the X-Pro2's advantages (autofocus + much lower cost + EVF option built in). Perhaps the larger 0.60x magnification with a 35mm lens will be more comfortable, if I buy a 35mm lens, although I'm hoping to use the 23mm as my main lens.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2017   #62
adamjbonn
Registered User
 
adamjbonn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Porto
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotobot View Post
Now that I have my own X-Pro2 and a 23mm f/1.4 lens, I see that the view through the X-Pro2's OVF is substantially smaller than the view through a Leica M viewfinder with a 35mm lens. The X-Pro2 shows the 0.38x magnification with this lens and it is "a lot smaller", as shawn accurately told me above. I can't say that it is comfortable or nice. But I guess it is one of the compromises one has to make in order to get the X-Pro2's advantages (autofocus + much lower cost + EVF option built in). Perhaps the larger 0.60x magnification with a 35mm lens will be more comfortable, if I buy a 35mm lens, although I'm hoping to use the 23mm as my main lens.
Have you tried to use the larger magnification? Or is that too big? (Slide the evf/ovf lever to the right and hold it for some seconds)
__________________
Cheers
Adam
http://adambonn.com
The largest X-Pro1 opinion piece on the 'net! http://adambonn.com/my-love-affair-w...jifilm-x-pro1/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2017   #63
Fotobot
Registered User
 
Fotobot is offline
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjbonn View Post
Have you tried to use the larger magnification? Or is that too big? (Slide the evf/ovf lever to the right and hold it for some seconds)
Yes, I have tried. It is too big. I completely lose the frame lines and a substantial part of the frame, especially as an eyeglass wearer. It's definitely not a Leica-like experience with a 35mm-equivalent lens. The X-Pro2 optical viewfinder may be perfectly fine (or even superior) with other focal lengths, but sort of fails with the 23mm (35mm equiv.) which I regard as a core focal length. It is usable, but small. I will probably stick with it as a Leica is not in my budget and I do appreciate the autofocus.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2017   #64
johnwolf
Registered User
 
johnwolf's Avatar
 
johnwolf is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotobot View Post
Now that I have my own X-Pro2 and a 23mm f/1.4 lens, I see that the view through the X-Pro2's OVF is substantially smaller than the view through a Leica M viewfinder with a 35mm lens. The X-Pro2 shows the 0.38x magnification with this lens and it is "a lot smaller", as shawn accurately told me above. I can't say that it is comfortable or nice. But I guess it is one of the compromises one has to make in order to get the X-Pro2's advantages (autofocus + much lower cost + EVF option built in). Perhaps the larger 0.60x magnification with a 35mm lens will be more comfortable, if I buy a 35mm lens, although I'm hoping to use the 23mm as my main lens.
I certainly understand this issue. 35mm on an M is just perfect. 35 on the X-Pro is equally satisfying.

I use a 25 on my X-Pro sometimes and I've gotten pretty used to it and actually enjoy having the extra view outside the framelines.

But it would be a shame to change from your preferred lens because of the way a VF works – kind of like putting the cart before the horse. And I agree the higher magnification with wide lenses is not realistic. I wonder if there's an eyepiece magnifier solution that would help you.

John
__________________
tumblr | Latest post: Photo Publication
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2017   #65
adamjbonn
Registered User
 
adamjbonn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Porto
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
I wonder if there's an eyepiece magnifier solution that would help you.

John
On the XP1 almost certainly doable, on the XP2 almost certainly not.

Depending on ones need for a ILC, perhaps one of the X100 range and the TC/WC might of been more suited to 35eqv use?

I have the 27mm lens and although perfectly usable, it is a bit in between OVF magnifications, although sometimes the extra space is useful
__________________
Cheers
Adam
http://adambonn.com
The largest X-Pro1 opinion piece on the 'net! http://adambonn.com/my-love-affair-w...jifilm-x-pro1/
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2017   #66
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotobot View Post
Now that I have my own X-Pro2 and a 23mm f/1.4 lens, I see that the view through the X-Pro2's OVF is substantially smaller than the view through a Leica M viewfinder with a 35mm lens. The X-Pro2 shows the 0.38x magnification with this lens and it is "a lot smaller", as shawn accurately told me above. I can't say that it is comfortable or nice. But I guess it is one of the compromises one has to make in order to get the X-Pro2's advantages (autofocus + much lower cost + EVF option built in). Perhaps the larger 0.60x magnification with a 35mm lens will be more comfortable, if I buy a 35mm lens, although I'm hoping to use the 23mm as my main lens.
If there are times when you want the larger view you have two options.

First, use the higher magnification view but also turn on the ERF mode with full framing in it. You might like that option, you might hate it.

Second, use the EVF. As it will use the entire FOV it will be larger. The EVF in the XP2 is quite good and can work very well.

These sorts of options is what is so nice about the hybrid viewfinder.

Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2017   #67
Fotobot
Registered User
 
Fotobot is offline
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 49
Thanks to all for your ideas. The higher magnification OVF with the ERF feels really awkward. But the EVF by itself is fine. So for those times when the smaller magnification OVF feels too small, I will just switch to the EVF. Yes, the hybrid viewfinder is definitely a good thing — and much easier/faster than the Leica add-on EVF.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-24-2017   #68
iaeaix
Registered User
 
iaeaix is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
If you have 18 Leica lens, and if you intend to use them, I would go for Leica. Using those Leica M lens on cropped sensor is some kind of waste - imho.
Or sell some of those lens - only keeping the most loved ones, go Fuji.
Personally I have never been satisfied the results with Leica lens on Fuji. But Fuji body with Fuji native lens produces very nice images, although I still prefer the M9 output.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-26-2017   #69
airfrogusmc
Registered User
 
airfrogusmc is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,638
If you have the $$$ go with the m262.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:39.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.