Old 02-25-2016   #41
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Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
John,

That is part of the charm of my original Monochrom: pretty clean files but not perfect.

The files from the SL and M-246 do really look kinda perfect.

I still shoot lots of film BTW.

Cal
Vince your a very fine photographer but perfection can be a bit boring. Perfection results in a loss of character IMO. No offense intended.
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Old 02-25-2016   #42
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Vince, you're images are really wonderful. I don't much care which cam brought them to fruition. We might have to vote you to "Honorary New Mexican".

I didn't see the SW corner of the state among your travels. Perhaps that's next. Deming, Hidalgo county (near Cloverdale, last verified sighting of jaguar in the U.S). Animas and the Chiricahua Range-AZ border. Lordsburg (near last U.S. sighting of Aplomado Falcon), City of Rocks, Silver City is worth the visit, the Gila NF (stop at the Catacombs), even Reserve (infamous, perhaps you know why) and the remainder of the Mogollon Rim.

I also wandered the state of NM, but with an old Nikon FE2 and Ektachrome; and I doubt I ever exhibited the eye you have shown us with the images above.
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Old 02-25-2016   #43
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Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
When will we be able to look at digital images for what they are?
I love film and digital. They are different animals.
Like watercolors or oils.
Digital will never be film and vice-versa.
Andy,

Two separate mediums in my book also.

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Old 02-25-2016   #44
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Sorry I introduced the notion of "too clean." My bad. Why don't we drop that subject and return to enjoying Vince photos and discussing his observations.

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Old 02-25-2016   #45
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Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
When will we be able to look at digital images for what they are?
I love film and digital. They are different animals.
Like watercolors or oils.
Digital will never be film and vice-versa.
Perfectly said.
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Old 02-25-2016   #46
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Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
Vince, you're images are really wonderful. I don't much care which cam brought them to fruition. We might have to vote you to "Honorary New Mexican".

I didn't see the SW corner of the state among your travels. Perhaps that's next. Deming, Hidalgo county (near Cloverdale, last verified sighting of jaguar in the U.S). Animas and the Chiricahua Range-AZ border. Lordsburg (near last U.S. sighting of Aplomado Falcon), City of Rocks, Silver City is worth the visit, the Gila NF (stop at the Catacombs), even Reserve (infamous, perhaps you know why) and the remainder of the Mogollon Rim.

I also wandered the state of NM, but with an old Nikon FE2 and Ektachrome; and I doubt I ever exhibited the eye you have shown us with the images above.
I've been to the SW part of the state a couple of times -- Lordsburg is a personal favourite. Silver City, Glenwood, Reserve (aka Reverse!), even Mogollon (will not repeat that experience!) all the way up to Gallup. Last year was Cuba, Farmington, Chama, Taos, Angel Fire, Springer, Las Vegas, Roswell, Alamogordo, Hope, Mountainair, and a bunch of other places I can't even remember.

I just was in 'The Big Empty' for a couple of days, and can't wait to go back. Really beautiful, and the people are great (like the rest of New Mexico of course!).
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Old 02-25-2016   #47
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Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
Vince your a very fine photographer but perfection can be a bit boring. Perfection results in a loss of character IMO. No offense intended.
For me the nice thing about having 'clean' files is that if I want to 'dirty' them up a bit, I can always do that - either in post, or I can just shoot at a higher ISO and using ND filters. Does not matter one way or the other to me.

And 'perfection' and 'character' are certainly in the eye of the beholder, particularly in print form. But I definitely hear you.
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Old 02-25-2016   #48
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Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
For me the nice thing about having 'clean' files is that if I want to 'dirty' them up a bit, I can always do that - either in post, or I can just shoot at a higher ISO and using ND filters. Does not matter one way or the other to me.

And 'perfection' and 'character' are certainly in the eye of the beholder.
I'm certainly not being critical of your work. You did some excellent images.

Adding grain and dirtying them up just looks different. It really comes down to personal taste.

A couple of years ago I was in the mood to buy an a MM and backed out after comparing the MM to film. They simply look different. Tonal distribution is different and output in print form is different. I just couldn't warm up to the look. I guess that's mostly a function of shooting film for sixty years. Had I grown up in the digital age I suspect I'd be perfectly happy with digital.

Don't get me wrong, 99% of my commercial work is digital but all of my personal work is film.

Again, very nice images.
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Old 02-25-2016   #49
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I too did the transition from film to digital (I've only been at the game for 38 years, so a mere kid!), and had about 23 solid years in the darkroom (both b+w and colour, plus a lot of platinum-palladium in the later years). Try as I might, the film 'workflow' just doesn't mesh well with my current digital workflow, which, like you, I use commercially. It just seemed logical for me to integrate my personal workflow with my commercial workflow, and I'm much happier for it.

Sad to say, but I sold my last film camera a couple of months ago (my lovely black Alpa 9d with a Macro-Switar lens). I am often tempted when I see a film camera for sale that I like (and there are many!), but then I think back to my failed attempts to rekindle that part of my photographic life, and I just move on. Likely a weakness on my part - what do they say, the spirit is willing, but....?

BTW I used the Monochrom all day today, and reinforced why I love RF's so much. This is going to be a tough choice -- how I wish I could have both!

Photos to come....
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Old 02-25-2016   #50
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Vince,
Setting aside any technical analysis about the character of files and cameras, a lot of these images are outstanding in their conception and execution. Do keep at this project. This place seems to have a strong resonance with you.
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Old 02-25-2016   #51
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Many thanks for all the encouragement and comments - I have another 8 days here, so who knows what else will be found!

Perry:


Perry
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
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Old 02-25-2016   #52
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Honestly you could've taken any of those photos with just about any digital camera/lens combo. I do like the one of Carol though, very Vince.
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Old 02-25-2016   #53
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Honestly you could've taken any of those photos with just about any digital camera/lens combo. I do like the one of Carol though, very Vince.
Probably, but I prefer to do it with a Leica
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Old 02-25-2016   #54
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Holy moly. Really like the image of Perry (bootsmith?). Really like it. I think it just has a MF look to it. Very 3-dimensional at least.
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Old 02-25-2016   #55
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Probably, but I prefer to do it with a Leica
Sure, the Ms are fantastic cameras, however the SL is something that requires some serious mental gymnastics to justify buying. Hope you pick the Monochrom!
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Old 02-25-2016   #56
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Sure, the Ms are fantastic cameras, however the SL is something that requires some serious mental gymnastics to justify buying. Hope you pick the Monochrom!
My brain is very limber
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Old 02-25-2016   #57
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Union County
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Old 02-25-2016   #58
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My brain is very limber
Your work is great so I don't really think it matters what you choose tbh.
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Old 02-25-2016   #59
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Homesteader
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Old 02-25-2016   #60
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Roads Less Traveled #3
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Old 02-25-2016   #61
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Untitled
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Old 02-25-2016   #62
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Roads Less Travelled -- takes me straight back to NM. I've seen that exact view so many times and I knew then what I know now. I like places with few people; and then the people who do happen to be there are wonderful "real" people. Ah, nostalgia.

I am so enjoying this thread and the photos. Could honestly be a book. And I like that they were taken with a Leica too
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Old 02-26-2016   #63
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Loving it.
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Old 02-26-2016   #64
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Roads Less Travelled -- takes me straight back to NM. I've seen that exact view so many times and I knew then what I know now. I like places with few people; and then the people who do happen to be there are wonderful "real" people. Ah, nostalgia.

I am so enjoying this thread and the photos. Could honestly be a book. And I like that they were taken with a Leica too
Many thanks! I feel the same way about New Mexico -- that's why I come back so often (and I just talked my wife into our returning here in June). Honestly, if I could abandon everything back home (except my wife of course ) and stay here, I think I would.
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Old 02-26-2016   #65
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Loving it.
Thanks Mark -- interesting way (at least I think it is) how I took this photo. I wanted to shoot this from an elevated position (like 10-15 feet up), but of course how was I going to do that without any kind of ladder? Figured this out on last year's trip -- I have a small Manfrotto travel tripod that fits nicely in my suitcase, so I extended all the legs and the column (I think the legs extend to about 54", plus the column), put the camera on self-timer mode, activated the self-timer, then hoisted the tripod with the camera attached as high as I could straight up. Had to guesstimate the composition a number of times until I got what I wanted.
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Old 02-26-2016   #66
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Homesteader
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Love this vInce and the portraits are terrific. Very productive trip so far I'd say.
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Old 02-26-2016   #67
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Perry:


Perry
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
Another wonderful one. Actually a lot of nice ones on here. Who cares about the camera?
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Old 02-26-2016   #68
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That portrait was very enjoyable to make -- I had walked by his shop the previous evening, and noticed all the leather goods in his small shop (saddles, boots, etc). I went in the next morning, we talked for a little while, and asked if I could take his photo and offered to make him a print on the spot with my little battery-powered Canon printer (which is a huge ice-breaker when you're trying to photograph people you don't know). I took about 5 shots, and I think this was the best one.

You see silhouettes such as these as you travel the backroads, so nothing really too unusual:


Home on the Range #1
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Old 02-26-2016   #69
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Thank you Vince for sharing. I have been going back to the monochrom thread and went from page 1 to now on page 70 over the last 2 weeks.

It further reinforce my believe that it is the photographer that makes the photo.

Take the images you posted here from both SL and Monochrom. It is really your vision that makes the image. Looking at both from the medium (my computer screen) it is YOU who makes the picture interesting and amazing. The only difference I can see is the sun is a little brighter and there is the slightly brighter reflection on the fence on the monochrom and missing on the SL but I assume that's just the sun start to set. Not a reflection on the cameras themselves.

The sharpness was not really a factor until you crop the pictures but looking at the images as a whole, it didnt really make a difference to what the impact has on the viewer.

It will probably go back to when you print the pictures and to see if the sharpness translate to the print and the size of the print you normally print.

Both cameras are great in your hand and I look forward to hear your thoughts when you make the final decision

Roger
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Old 02-26-2016   #70
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Convoy
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Old 02-26-2016   #71
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Vince,
I use polirazation sunglasses to, the kind that clip on my normal glasses.
With my sunglasses, I can see the LCD Ok, but, when I take them of and turn the clip-on sunglasses 90° I see nothing!
So, the useability of sunglasses with your EVF is dependant on the angle the sunglasses polarization lines make with the EVF's.
Maybe you can get a par of sunglasses which work the right way with your EVF.
Hope this helps.
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Old 02-26-2016   #72
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One shot from a couple of hours ago. Leica SL, ISO 50. Processed in the bar of the Hotel Eklund, Clayton, NM!


A Man's House...
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
Looking at the images posted in this thread, I couldn't help but feel that most of them seemed underexposed, so I looked at the histogram of a few and my assumption was correct, a majority are underexposed.

Below is the histogram for the image above as an example. All the data is on the left of of zone five with very little in zone five, six and seven, in other words no midtone and highlight detail. Another important point about the histogram of this image is the combed histogram effect, which is the gaps in histogram that shows clipping of data.


Since its virtually impossible to judge image quality with underexposed images I thought I'd share my observation.

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Old 02-26-2016   #73
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It is entirely possible that they might appear a bit dark (I had this same issue last year when I was out here), but as I stated in my very first post of this thread, I am working on a small laptop in a variety of circumstances (hotel rooms, cafés, restaurants), and under a variety of lighting conditions, so they may require some tweaking afterwards. I've calibrated the laptop screen a number of times but have never really been happy with this screen (it's a glossy 15" screen). I am sure that I will have to adjust all the images when I'm back home and looking at them all on my 27" screen under consistent conditions. So you might want to consider all these photos 'placeholders' of sorts. Plus generally I think it's hard to judge image quality of a 72 dpi image on a screen - I ultimately judge with a print from the high-res version of the image.

And honestly (and as a separate point) I don't live and die by the histogram.
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Old 02-26-2016   #74
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With the original MM you should slightly expose to the left or "underexpose" (kind of a lame word to use in this case I think) as compared to many other digital cameras. I think the mood is well achieved here with fine detail even on the shadows and with this example posted I really don't see any important blocked shadows and the nice whites (window) that aren't off the scale.

These all look properly exposed on my monitor and I'll bet they make wonderful prints.
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Old 02-26-2016   #75
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My only other frame of reference with me out here is my iPhone screen, and they all look okay to me (in other words, they match what I see on my laptop). The only one that frustrates me is that 'Paradise' photo. I even went back at a different time of day to see if I could improve it, but didn't work. The scene faces north, and I think it needs a completely cloudy day, which out here can be a bit of a challenge to get

Before I left on this trip I calibrated and compared images on my laptop screen to the same images on my 27" iMac. When I started to work on the shots out here, they all looked kinda brown to me, so I recalibrated my screen and adjusted the white point. They look more neutral to me now. And perhaps as far as 'hitting all the zones' goes, it may just be my personal aesthetic approach/interpretation of a given scene, which may not necessarily result in having tones in every single zone. Honestly, I never look at the histogram - I go more by feel and what I think corresponds to what is in my 'mind's eye'. Even with this what some might consider a 'seat of the pants' method, I've generally never had an issue with blocked shadows or blown highlights in either CCD Monochrom or Monochrom 246 files and their resulting prints. Most likely the way I'll continue to work, though I'm sure many won't agree with that particular working method. Oh well.
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Old 02-26-2016   #76
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LOL doing an off screen analysis of a 353.3 kB post is really solid

I have no experience with the handling of highlights of the M246 or the SL for that matter. I use the histogram a lot to check for overexposed highlights on my MM. Every camera has it's own optimum working point and the photographer decides which zones are important to him. So taking simple rules like "expose to the right" and throwing out some technical judgement about excellent photographic work is a little besides the point but no suprise
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Old 02-26-2016   #77
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Worked all day today on the 'west side' of Santa Rosa for a story for the Guadalupe County Communicator newspaper. All shot with the SL, as the paper wanted to have the option of running some photos in colour.

I have a bunch of photos to go through - these are the first two I was able to do:


John, Santa Rosa
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Steve, Santa Rosa
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
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Old 02-26-2016   #78
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Great images

I don't know about the 246, but the straight MM, if you follow the idea, should easily out resolve both SL and 240 at base ISO, or am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
Detail crops of each photo from roughly the same section:

Monochrom 246:

Chimayo 246-1 Crop
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr

SL:

Chimayo SL-1 Crop
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
Note the little branch which comes in from the top near the roof, the further one: the degree of OOF is clearly different. Focus is not the same on these two shots. Critical focus on the 246 is just slightly missed, I think.
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Old 02-27-2016   #79
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I don't think so - I did a few other 'side-by-side' comparisons, and the difference was consistent. Now of course I'm going under the premise that when I'm in focus in the viewfinder of the 246, the lens is actually in focus with respect to the sensor.

As far as the CCD Monochrom 'out resolving' these two cameras at base ISO, that's doubtful too. Here again, I can see it in the prints (at least between the CCD Mono and he 246 Mono), and to me the prints from the 246 appear sharper, and reveal more shadow and highlight detail.

A bit of an update on the SL vs 246 'shootout': I shot with the SL all day yesterday, and I found myself missing the optical viewfinder of the 246, as well as the more straightforward usage of that camera. I'm having this feeling that I might stick with the 246 after all, but there's still another week to go, so we'll see.
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Old 02-27-2016   #80
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One of the 'pep talks' I have been going back to is this short Jay Maisel video. Has been very helpful to me when I come out here: https://vimeo.com/116692462
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