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Sigma SD Quattro-H interchangeable lens, APS-H sensor
Old 02-23-2016   #1
lynnb
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Sigma SD Quattro-H interchangeable lens, APS-H sensor

Not quite full frame, but 1.3x APS-H crop is not far short. With adapters this could be quite an interesting alternative to Sony's offerings.

Lots of articles on the web, here's dpreview and Sigma.
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Old 02-23-2016   #2
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I have three SA mount lenses that are pretty excited about this camera.
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Old 02-23-2016   #3
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Yep...

Dang.. I was gonna ignore the sd1q and wait to c what else they would do only last week.. Sigma threw a monkey wrench into that one by announcing the sd1 in APS-h format . THEN added an evf --> Now I got to save up as I wait to hear the price and the initial reviews.

They also announced the mc-11 e mount to SA mount adapter as well today. So sigma gonna get a bit of my savings to say the least.

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Old 02-24-2016   #4
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Quite an ugly camera. However as said, I would like to test it against my Nex-7. I am happy with EVF of Nex-7 and camera's performance but I used to have Sigma DP1 in the past and I liked the resemblance of B/W images from favoen sensor to film.
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Old 02-24-2016   #5
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Don't know about it. It ticks a lot of exciting boxes but on the other hand just as many disappointing ones. I have a DP1m and DP2m and love the output from them. But was waiting for an ILC. Right now I'm not so sure anymore. Such a lot of contradictions in a single product is really frustrating.

Just to clarify: foveon is great when used in 1:1:1 and not above 400 iso. Now the 400 iso I can live with as with medium format slide film I have hardly any at that speed left. That the camera is slow is also not a big issue.

But the combination of foveon, SA mount and aps-h makes little sense. The sensor is great for landscape but in SA mount there are hardly any primes below 24mm. On a aps-h that gives 32mm, that isn't that wide. (I'd consider that a normal lens) If it had been FF then 24mm would have been limit for a wide angle.

Likewise foveon is great for architecture. But there are no tilt-shift lenses in SA mount. Neither are there any stabilised primes (nor hq zooms) while the foveon could use that help in low-light situations. So the only way out right now are adapters. But there isn't that much to adapt except old manual lenses.

With the choice of aps-h you also need to go to the ff lenses as the SA mount aps-c ones don't cover aps-h well.

And then the aps-h hasn't 1:1:1 raw support. I suspect they can do that through a firmware update.

Going with an evf is understandable but at the same time a problem. Foveon sucks battery like nothing else. The DP's get noticeably hot when you let them on a few minutes. And this doesn't help noise either. Add to that a evf that consumes battery as well isn't going to help getting more shots out of a battery.

So a possible great camera but hardly any lenses that would really do it justice. And that with a camera made by what is primary a lens making company.
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Old 02-24-2016   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnb View Post
Not quite full frame, but 1.3x APS-H crop is not far short. With adapters this could be quite an interesting alternative to Sony's offerings.
I first saw the news about APS-H and thought this is very interesting. Then I saw the news about the use of SA lens mount. Eh.
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Old 02-24-2016   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
So a possible great camera but hardly any lenses that would really do it justice. And that with a camera made by what is primary a lens making company.
While Sigma started out life producing crappy low cost lenses (I know, in got one in Nikon mount from early 80s), they've come a long way.. Their new art series rivals some of the best stuff out there IMHO. Don't get me wrong, it still gets beat but not by much and in real world shooting it's good enough for me. Lensrental.com has done some interesting test during their time evaluating sample variations...its shows performance that are rather good given the cost difference between it and something like a Zeiss.

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Old 02-24-2016   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lss View Post
I first saw the news about APS-H and thought this is very interesting. Then I saw the news about the use of SA lens mount. Eh.
As much as I wish they had done a redesigned mount for mirrorless or use some existing one and create an adapter like their new emount to sa mount mc-11, u can't blame them for deciding to stick w/ their own sa mount that they have had since the start of the sd line.

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Old 02-24-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
While Sigma started out life producing crappy low cost lenses (I know, in got one in Nikon mount from early 80s), they've come a long way.. Their new art series rivals some of the best stuff out there IMHO. Don't get me wrong, it still gets beat but not by much and in real world shooting it's good enough for me. Lensrental.com has done some interesting test during their time evaluating sample variations...its shows performance that are rather good given the cost difference between it and something like a Zeiss.

Gary
Sure, but in the art series there isn't a single stabilised one and the widest ff is a 20mm. So nothing wider than 27mm eq. Some like the 18-35 would be nice, but that one doesn't cover aps-h. So if you want something wide then you have to use the older 12-24 which isn't up to a foveon. They would need something like the 14mm in the DP0q. But at the prices of the art series you are probably at the same price as a set of DPq cameras.

I do get the reason for the register distance, it uses phase detection as well, so probably there is a mirror and phase af module sitting there.

But then they could just as well put an EOS mount on it. At least you could get a couple of wides and teles outside of the Sigma range. They already use the dataprotocol and the distance is also similar. And it wouldn't matter if they sold their own lenses in eos or sa mount.
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Old 02-24-2016   #10
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Point..

In terms of the 18-35 or for that matter any of the branded apsc sigma lenses... We'll only know for sure about how much vignetting if any and which lenses if and when sigma publishes a compatibility list..

I think the other consideration is the future lenses that will now be coming to support APS-h.

Gary
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Old 02-24-2016   #11
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From reading comments on another forum, particularly by those who have owned the previous SD foveon sensor cameras, the opinion is that they don't play nicely at all with non-SA Sigma lenses. Adapted SLR lenses result in noticeable and difficult to correct color shifts, I guess like the problems Leica digital M cameras have with some older symmetrical lens designs.

So if this is your intent, to get a Quattro-H and adapt lenses to it, I'd definitely do some research and maybe wait and see how things go for the early adopters.
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Old 02-24-2016   #12
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Hi!

Some of us would say "at last!"

But is always rather ambigous....

The cameras has a wrong mount and a wrong grip.

They must cut a few mms in order to attach the correct glass to it.
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Old 02-24-2016   #13
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From reading comments on another forum, particularly by those who have owned the previous SD foveon sensor cameras, the opinion is that they don't play nicely at all with non-SA Sigma lenses.
+1. my problem with SD body and adapted Takumar lens was cameras exposure measurement, which often seemed like random. stopped trying soon after getting so many unusable shots. using same lens on Canon had more expectable behaviour, although even then it wasn't as reliable as native EF-lens would have.
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Old 02-24-2016   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
The sensor is great for landscape but in SA mount there are hardly any primes below 24mm.
This certainly can limit those nature photographers who depend on wides. This could be starter for a poll "your most used FL for nature shots". I bet many would tick values over 100mm.
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Old 02-24-2016   #15
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Quote:
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This certainly can limit those nature photographers who depend on wides. This could be starter for a poll "your most used FL for nature shots". I bet many would tick values over 100mm.
21 for both pano crop and deep forest
24, 35 and 50 for general
70-200 for isolation

The range from most of my shots fall between 50 to 200. Other than 24 is not that much outside of that except for pano crop.

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Old 02-24-2016   #16
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I really like the 1:3 crop version ... I can see that replacing my SD1M. I have the 18-35 zoom (ART) which would become a 24-47 f1.8. Nothing much you cant do there and it's a superb lens optically.
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Old 02-24-2016   #17
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/2651823...-art-for-aps-c

One could match it w/ the newly announced 50-100f1.8 art for a two zoom combo that would be hard to match

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Old 02-24-2016   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2651823...-art-for-aps-c

One could match it w/ the newly announced 50-100f1.8 art for a two zoom combo that would be hard to match

Gary

Wow .... from 24mm to 135mm all at f1.8. Good point!
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Old 02-24-2016   #19
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The 18-35 never really excited me on apsc..but the fov on APS-h has me interested combined w/ the 50-100 puts it in the sweet spot on my photographic needs. The only question is the image circle of the apsc offering good enough to handle to slightly large sensor. Keeping my finders crossed.

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Old 02-24-2016   #20
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So .... any guesses at the price? I remember when they dropped the SD1 on the market at some crazy figure ... we all thought they'd lost their marbles. I note now that a brand new SD1M can be bought here in Oz for $1200.00. In other words absolutely no point in attempting to sell mine.
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Old 02-24-2016   #21
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They've haven't announced a price yet. I would think they learned their lesson from the original sd1 price fiasco. CP+ is going on now in Japan. I hope they announce price and availability by end of show.. When I looked last night on b&h, no price yet, but the other items they announced like the mc-11 already had a price.

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Old 02-24-2016   #22
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Between $1200 and $1800 would be reasonable ... I'd be interested.

Over two grand .... not so much!
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Old 02-24-2016   #23
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Same..here.. But I'd also wait for a used one at the right price if the reviews look good. The normal apsc doesn't interest me, just the APS-h version.

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Old 02-24-2016   #24
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I have great doubts about another Sigma DSLR now that the SD Quattros have arrived. They use the Sigma SA mount and functionally replace a DSLR.

My preference would have been for them to use an aps-c sensor with a m43 mount. This is entirely possible, as a JVC video camera employs this exact strategy and can still shoot in Super 35 resolution with appropriate lenses. Sigma is a member of the m43 group, and make a number of m43 lenses. They could have bundled this with a Sigma SA adapter, so existing SA lens users can benefit from it. It would also allow people to use almost every lens with the right adapters.
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Old 02-24-2016   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Between $1200 and $1800 would be reasonable ... I'd be interested.

Over two grand .... not so much!
Hi Keith -- yes, the new Sigma looks very, very interesting... There is an active guessing game on right now at dpreview on the price ...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3970517

Like you, I'm hoping the price of the H can be kept below $1800
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Old 02-25-2016   #26
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Wow:

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Old 02-25-2016   #27
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Wow:

I like the look of that .... with the battery grip and all.
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Old 02-25-2016   #28
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And that shutter button appears to be a long way forward from the viewfinder. I recall a few people expressing some concern that the proximity of the finder and shutter release may be a problem.

It is a Sigma after all so we expect some quirks!
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Old 02-25-2016   #29
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And that shutter button appears to be a long way forward from the viewfinder. I recall a few people expressing some concern that the proximity of the finder and shutter release may be a problem.
Can you explain Keith? I've never thought of this.
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Old 02-25-2016   #30
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The future is here... wow!

Odd placement of the viewfinder though? where does your nose go?
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Old 02-25-2016   #31
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Doesn't look like a lightweight mirrorless.

W/ the battery pack, kind of reminds me of a medium format rf camera in terms of size and shape.. I like the look myself.

Gary
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Old 02-25-2016   #32
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That thing is gargantuan.
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Old 02-25-2016   #33
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Old 02-25-2016   #34
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I hope they put a corresponding battery in it. A foveon sensor and its processor suck juice like nothing else. With even more pixels and an evf it will need a large battery. Right now I'm happy if I get 30-40 shots with a single battery on the DP1m.

It looks larger than the Bronica RF645 and in a way very similar. And that one has good ergonomics.
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Old 02-25-2016   #35
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Right now I'm happy if I get 30-40 shots with a single battery on the DP1m.
The quattro was a lot better than the Merrill in this regard, so I would imagine this will be closer to the quattro than the Merrill.
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Ah right full spectrum capable :)
Old 02-25-2016   #36
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Ah right full spectrum capable :)

https://mobile.twitter.com/dpreview/...86738880933888

They retained the removable dust cover which also doubles as the ir filter.. Removing this diva the latches u c in the same way as the sd1m, give u full spectrum capability. The issue w/ the sd1m was if u want to shoot ir, one could not get an accurate focus due to no evf or live view. This is because of the difference is wave lengths of visible light vs infrared.

What would be nice if there was a full spectrum glass cover replacement so u didn't have to shoot bare sensor (dust and possible scratches caused by cleaning).

Gary
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Old 02-25-2016   #37
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https://mobile.twitter.com/dpreview/...86738880933888

They retained the removable dust cover which also doubles as the ir filter.. Removing this diva the latches u c in the same way as the sd1m, give u full spectrum capability. The issue w/ the sd1m was if u want to shoot ir, one could not get an accurate focus due to no evf or live view. This is because of the difference is wave lengths of visible light vs infrared.

What would be nice if there was a full spectrum glass cover replacement so u didn't have to shoot bare sensor (dust and possible scratches caused by cleaning).

Gary
I am under the impression that the sigma sensor still has a cover glass layer?

In any case, interesting camera, but the mount ruins the appeal. Buying into the SA mount seems like a poor decision, and the flange range prevents anything from being adapted other than Nikon and Leica R lenses.
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Old 02-25-2016   #38
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I am under the impression that the sigma sensor still has a cover glass layer?

In any case, interesting camera, but the mount ruins the appeal. Buying into the SA mount seems like a poor decision, and the flange range prevents anything from being adapted other than Nikon and Leica R lenses.
Did not remember about that detail. U could be right.

Nikon and Leica r lenses have been adapts to sd cameras in the past.. Same SA mount and flange distance as far as I am aware of. There limited success though from what I heard. Generally better to stick to nativ mount.

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Old 02-25-2016   #39
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Between $1200 and $1800 would be reasonable ... I'd be interested.

Over two grand .... not so much!
If you do the usual conversion to euro that would be between 1500 and 2000 euro. Might be reasonable. Until add an Art lens and compare it to a set of DPq cameras. You'd have 2 DPq cameras (and some change) for a SDq-H and a single lens. You gain a stop or 2, sure. But you gain a lot of weight and not everyone wants such a narrow dof.

And then you cannot have an equivalent for the DP0q or the DP1q.

No, unless they got a set of lenses they don't talk about on the roadmap I can't see what they want to achieve.
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Nikon lenses to SA cameras
Old 02-25-2016   #40
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Nikon lenses to SA cameras

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41532419

2012 - not sure if they are even still in business.

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