Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Digital Cameras > Sigma / Foveon Cameras

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Sigma sd Quattro and sd Quattro H
Old 02-23-2016   #1
KismetSky
Registered User
 
KismetSky is offline
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 101
Sigma sd Quattro and sd Quattro H

New APS-C (1.5x) and APS-H (1.3x) mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras from Sigma using their Foveon X3 Quattro sensor.

http://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/sd-series/

http://photorumors.com/2016/02/23/ne...igma-sa-mount/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #2
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,347
A bit at a loss here. Why a 1.6x and a 1.3x? At least there is a viewfinder.

But very likely the end of the line for the SD1?

EDIT and no 1:1:1 raw for the aps-H version! What were they thinking.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #3
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,335
Good move IMO.
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #4
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 43
Posts: 17,949
Interesting product...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #5
rbelyell
Registered User
 
rbelyell is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,341
wow, this could be really cool! for me personally alot depends on how theyve dealt with the foveon achilles heel: low light performance. i am also curious about manual focus aids and implementation. also, as an aside, it never ceases to amaze me how immediate are the negative reactions! 'why' this and 'why' that, before we even know 'what' it is!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #6
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Well.. It will be interesting to c what improvements they have made..as well as the cost.

I guess the largest frame size (image circle supported by apsc SA mount lenses) is aps-h. Too bad they just didn't make it FF w/ detect for the apsc SA mount lens and auto crop just as Nikon and Others have done. Some of their SA mount lenses can handle full frame.

Can't wait to read the reviews..

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #7
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 43
Posts: 17,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
wow, this could be really cool! for me personally alot depends on how theyve dealt with the foveon achilles heel: low light performance.
I'm sure they haven't.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #8
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
wow, this could be really cool! for me personally alot depends on how theyve dealt with the foveon achilles heel: low light performance.
The DP quattros were at best one stop better than the Merrill. It would be interesting to c if they could improve it of sd version. The had over a year to learn what hw improvements were needed on the DP Quattro cameras.

They did go w/ both phase and contrast detect af cells on this design. I don't remember them mentioning it on the DP Quattro. I wonder if the sensor has it but they just didn't have time to develop the fw algo for it. Could be one of the reasons the sd1q was overdue. Otherwise this is a new Quattro sensor and could be better in terms of noise then the one in the DP.

They did add a gimmick that I'm not sure about...new mode which is essentially the Olympus gimmick they put on the pen-f and em5mk2 using multiple shots from single shutter release to create a bigger raw file (emulating a bigger sensor). But this indicates if nothing else, they solved a lot of throughput bottlenecks in their digital path.

Their latest fw update to address color issues..to early to tell how well it works, especially in terms of false color that sometimes happens when the pseudo Bayer algo kicks in.. Usually happens when their is color change w/in a fine area of one or two pixel widths such as fruit skin imperfections or the peach fuzz hair of a peach. In other words, the usually culprits that all Bayer sensor cameras need to contend w/. Just that on a Quattro, the issue happens far less often IMHO.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #9
mingkookoo
Registered User
 
mingkookoo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 445
why is the viewfinder so close to the thumb rest? Even for right eye shooter it might post problem

But for me it is by far the most interesting product announced this year so far.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #10
mabelsound
Registered User
 
mabelsound's Avatar
 
mabelsound is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 47
Posts: 6,171
Does Sigma's registration distance make this camera a good candidate for a universal manual-focus SLR lens body? There are certainly some Leica R lenses I wouldn't mind seeing Foveon results from.
__________________
flickr insta twitter
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #11
mingkookoo
Registered User
 
mingkookoo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 445
looks like it's designed for SLR lens. M Mount....... out of luck
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #12
mingkookoo
Registered User
 
mingkookoo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 445
it might be a great pairing with their new 30mm F/1.4 lens. Looking forward to more info and hands on
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #13
dfatty
Registered User
 
dfatty's Avatar
 
dfatty is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingkookoo View Post
why is the viewfinder so close to the thumb rest? Even for right eye shooter it might post problem

But for me it is by far the most interesting product announced this year so far.
good point on the location of the VF, i'm a left eye shooter so this would be tight.

my brother just wrote me: "first time my right pinky dangles below the grip I'd throw it against the wall!" lol
__________________
Dean
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #14
Samoura´
Registered User
 
Samoura´'s Avatar
 
Samoura´ is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 480
I love the shape of the camera, but the EVF placement is kind of funky (probably to keep size down). The dedicated VF/Auto/Monitor switch is a godsend.

But seriously odd about the C and H sensors. Sigma should have come up with a new mirrorless mount and released a sturdy SA adapter (a la Sony). Or just released an H version (or FF version) that had cropping instructions depending on lens, as someone else in this thread has already noted. Sticking with the Quattro sensor tech is a disappointment...I'll sit this one out.

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabelsound View Post
Does Sigma's registration distance make this camera a good candidate for a universal manual-focus SLR lens body? There are certainly some Leica R lenses I wouldn't mind seeing Foveon results from.
The registration distance is 44mm, same as Canon EF. I guess you'll be able to adapt Nikon lenses, but not a whole lot more.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #15
rbelyell
Registered User
 
rbelyell is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabelsound View Post
Does Sigma's registration distance make this camera a good candidate for a universal manual-focus SLR lens body? There are certainly some Leica R lenses I wouldn't mind seeing Foveon results from.
i dont think there is a way to mount R lenses--or any legacy slr lenses outside of m42--on SA mount cameras. i am happy to be told i'm incorrect!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #16
mingkookoo
Registered User
 
mingkookoo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 445
I think I've read it at the Sigma official page that Sigma can change mount for a fee, but I can't get to their site right now.....

Will try their page again later to find out more
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #17
mingkookoo
Registered User
 
mingkookoo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 445
By the way it looks very much like a Ricoh GXR A12 Mount.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #18
Samoura´
Registered User
 
Samoura´'s Avatar
 
Samoura´ is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 480
So I'm on the BH site, more pictures btw, and I'm noticing an expansion port on the bottom. I wonder if a vertical grip is in the works...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...irrorless.html
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #19
bwidjaja
Warung Photo
 
bwidjaja is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabelsound View Post
Does Sigma's registration distance make this camera a good candidate for a universal manual-focus SLR lens body? There are certainly some Leica R lenses I wouldn't mind seeing Foveon results from.
Seems like you use Leitax adapter (reversible):
http://www.leitax.com/leica-lens-for-sigma-cameras.html
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #20
mabelsound
Registered User
 
mabelsound's Avatar
 
mabelsound is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 47
Posts: 6,171
aha yes! thanks
__________________
flickr insta twitter
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #21
Harry Caul
Registered User
 
Harry Caul is offline
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
They did add a gimmick that I'm not sure about...new mode which is essentially the Olympus gimmick they put on the pen-f and em5mk2 using multiple shots from single shutter release to create a bigger raw file (emulating a bigger sensor). But this indicates if nothing else, they solved a lot of throughput bottlenecks in their digital path.
Sorry, but I can't stand it when people label features they do not need to be "gimmicks"

Multi-shot photography has been used on specialty science and industrial sensors for years and is invaluable. To better understand the performance gains go over to DxOMark and look at their 1" sensor DxO One camera.

DxO One score = 70
DxO One "super raw" multi-shot score = 85 (21% improvement!)

To put that into perspective:
Sony A6000 = 82
Nikon D5500 = 84
Sony A7SII = 85
Canon 5DS R = 86

So basically you are getting high-end APS-C/mid-range FF performance out of a 1" sensor.

Sure, not everyone shoots still life and/or architecture, but those folks will see amazing gains in performance with multi-shot cameras. You can also use it as a built-in ND filter to blur water in pinch as well. Given that the Sigma's are already known for their amazing perceived sharpness vis-a-vis their megapixel designation, I for one am super excited to how much more performance they can eek out.

Sure, street shooters, and wedding/portrait photographers will likely never use it. But just because I don't need 4K or 7 million AF points, that doesn't make those features gimmicks.

By the way, I'm speaking from experience here... I document a lot of art including prints. Camera resolutions are so high these days that moire and color artifacts from the print patterns were a constant struggle with every camera I tried. I was looking at $2-3-4,000 solutions but nothing worked reliably. Then the Oly EM5 mkII w/multi-shot came along and solved all my problems for <$1,000!

Here is a comparison I made using a black and white Army of Darkness US 1-sheet poster (27"x41"):

__________________
Plaubel 670, Rolleiflex 2.8E2 Planar, Polaroid 195, Leica M3, Contax G2, Olympus OM-D
My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #22
jarski
Registered User
 
jarski is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,306
sure landscape and tripod shooters appreciate pixel shift technology. new Pentax K1 will have it as well.

interesting new camera from Sigma. guess we can finally expect SD Merrill to land somewhere around 300eur/usd level
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #23
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,347
From what I get from the sales blub is that it is multi-shot (kinda hdr) but not pixel-shift. Even in landscape this isn't always a blassing. The days that is is absolutely windstill are rare.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #24
Samoura´
Registered User
 
Samoura´'s Avatar
 
Samoura´ is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Caul View Post
By the way, I'm speaking from experience here... I document a lot of art including prints. Camera resolutions are so high these days that moire and color artifacts from the print patterns were a constant struggle with every camera I tried. I was looking at $2-3-4,000 solutions but nothing worked reliably. Then the Oly EM5 mkII w/multi-shot came along and solved all my problems for <$1,000!
What about a DP3 Merrill?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #25
mingkookoo
Registered User
 
mingkookoo is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 445
Even more pics from Dp Review... battery grip also
http://www.dpreview.com/sample-galle...product-photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #26
Harry Caul
Registered User
 
Harry Caul is offline
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samoura´ View Post
What about a DP3 Merrill?
I considered it, but I shoot hundreds of images in a session. The convenience of Lightroom compatibility won out! Not to mention that I already had an EM5 and micro43 lenses...
__________________
Plaubel 670, Rolleiflex 2.8E2 Planar, Polaroid 195, Leica M3, Contax G2, Olympus OM-D
My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #27
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
A bit at a loss here. Why a 1.6x and a 1.3x? At least there is a viewfinder.

But very likely the end of the line for the SD1?

EDIT and no 1:1:1 raw for the aps-H version! What were they thinking.
Foveon Quattro sensors do not have the same number of pixels on each layer. Top layer is full resolution, second and third are reduced resolution to make them bigger for better light gathering (lower noise) compared to Merril and earlier versions. Quattros have to interpolate between the three layers.

Shawn
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #28
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
A bit at a loss here. Why a 1.6x and a 1.3x? At least there is a viewfinder.

But very likely the end of the line for the SD1?

EDIT and no 1:1:1 raw for the aps-H version! What were they thinking.
Actually, u can come close to 1:1:1 if u are willing to accept smaller mp. The small raw maps all 4 pixels of the top layer w/ a single pixel of the red and green layer. It appears to average the top blue layer value.

From my testing, this small raw eliminates most of the false color and aliasing issue. I tend to shot small raw unless I c something that needs to be blown up big..

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #29
Baipin
Registered User
 
Baipin's Avatar
 
Baipin is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 21
Posts: 65
There are a lot of things I like about this camera; it's an exciting development for sure, but the location of the viewfinder seems a bit strange to me (I foresee a lot of nose oil on the rear screen). I'm also not sure how I feel about the lens cone; it seems like wasted space. I get that a lens mount for their already-released lenses makes sense for Sigma, but why not go with a shorter registration distance and use something akin to Sony's A to E adapter? This would be a nice, compact kit with LTM or M-mount lenses; not capitalizing on the body's compact size would not be capitalizing on what I'd consider to be an important asset. That said, this might play well with R-mount lenses!
__________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/brickartisan/

Mamiya Super 23 G
- Sony A7R - Leica iiic
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #30
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,335
Traveling to the beat of their own drum as usual ... it's what I really like about Sigma. It's an interesting release because I've been having a play with my SD1M lately which is a great camera with a few shortcomings.

I have three SA mount lenses so if this venture/camera is successful I may consider this option. The EVF appeals to me ... much more so than the rather dim finder of the SD1M which makes critical manual focus tricky at times.
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #31
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
From what I get from the sales blub is that it is multi-shot (kinda hdr) but not pixel-shift. Even in landscape this isn't always a blassing. The days that is is absolutely windstill are rare.
Exactly, unless u have a perfectly still subject, it's not clear if u could introduce a descrepency in the shot. Granted the likely hood is extreme small given how fast the multi shot happens.

The Quattro introduced a jumbo jpg setting w/ the DP Quattro as well, which I find sometimes can add descrepency when it goes thru it's algo for increasing the size from the native one. It is better to just shoot large raw and up res in SPP when required IMHO.

Personally, I think your better off to use the APS-h version if u need more resolution. I would love to c dp0q w/ an APS-h version

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #32
shawn
Registered User
 
shawn is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samoura´ View Post
So I'm on the BH site, more pictures btw, and I'm noticing an expansion port on the bottom. I wonder if a vertical grip is in the works...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...irrorless.html
http://www.sigma-global.com/en/camer...s/accessories/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #33
fireblade
Vincenzo.
 
fireblade's Avatar
 
fireblade is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,223
I'm sure image quality will not be an issue, I'm liking the design, already owning an Merrill all i want would be an improvement at higher ISO. Interesting to see what images Sigma put out there for this camera.
__________________
Vincenzo

"No place is boring, if you've had a good night's sleep and have a pocket full of unexposed film."
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #34
vytasn
Registered User
 
vytasn's Avatar
 
vytasn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 72
Does anyone know if there are any wide angle options for sigma, around the equivalent of 20-24mm in FF?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #35
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by vytasn View Post
Does anyone know if there are any wide angle options for sigma, around the equivalent of 20-24mm in FF?
The DP0 is equivelant to 21 fov..

In terms of sd1 dslr supported lenses there are several that fall into that range and wider.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #36
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Forgot to add

I have both the 10-20 and the 12-24.. My copy of the 12-24 is slightly better than the 10-20.. But when u need 10 (15fov) the 12 (18fov) won't cut it when shooting in tight places.

W/ the APS-h using a 1.3 crop factor even my 17-70 zoom becomes more interesting at 22.1 mm at the 17 end..

I would look to the APS-h version if u are series about superwide or landscape since it also has support for more mp.

Depending on how the reviews go, I'll probably save up for the APS-h myself.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1

Last edited by GaryLH : 02-23-2016 at 16:29. Reason: iOS auto checker error changed supervise to,superwide
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #37
vytasn
Registered User
 
vytasn's Avatar
 
vytasn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Forgot to add


I would look to the APS-h version if u are series about supervise or landscape since it also has support for more mp.

Depending on how the reviews go, I'll probably save up for the APS-h myself.

Gary
Thanks, the APS-h version does look super interesting. I am the market for a new digital camera and I am getting a headache with all the choices.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #38
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Sigma foveon cameras take some getting used to...they are not for everyone to say the least. In the past slow and patience would be the hall mark of a typical user. They are great for still life, detail and landscape work. Ok for other work.. Action photography is not their thing.

the review will be interesting to c what has improved.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #39
GaryLH
Registered User
 
GaryLH's Avatar
 
GaryLH is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,186
Darn...

The DP Quattro series cameras has an additional aspect ratio 21:9 that they left out of new sd quattro cameras.

Gary
__________________
Panasonic LX100, Sigma Foveon, Fuji X and Panasonic CM1
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-23-2016   #40
Eric T
Registered User
 
Eric T is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 716
I was a big fan of the Merrill cameras but I just don't think the Quattro cameras are a step up in IQ. I liked my SD1 but for some reason it became a huge battery hog so I stopped using it.
I just don't like the Quattro sensor. I don't like the lower resolution for two of three colors compared to the Merrill sensor. The Quattro files process faster and are a little better at higher ISO but, for me, the IQ isn't there.
I love the Foveon concept but the technology isn't there yet to handle the noise at high ISO.
I am tempted to try the new SD Quattro but I will wait for a comparison with the SD1.
__________________
Eric Triplett in sunny Florida
These days I shoot mostly with Sony A7R, Canon M3, and Leica T.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:18.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.