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What's up with Windows 10?
Old 01-25-2016   #1
dave lackey
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What's up with Windows 10?

Photography generally sucks. I am a photographer not a computer geek but it seems that computers haunt me everywhere I go!!! I hate computers!!! I spent most of my life designing and building major projects so I have been through dozens of systems only to be constantly harassed... Did I say I hate computers?

Now, I get this little reminder that I can upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 free for a limited time... Really? Izzat so?

Supposedly my LR 3.3 and Silverfast and CS2 or Elements will work on Windows 10? Really?

Can someone enlighten me on the wisdom of clicking to upgrade to Windiws 10? Or should I just stick with Windiws 7 now?

Thanks in advance... You guys are the best.
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Old 01-25-2016   #2
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My advice Dave is don't upgrade to Windows 10 unless you have some software or hardware that will only work on Windows 10. If everything is working for you on Windows 7, stay with it. There is a free upgrade program, but there are always gotchas with upgrades in my experience - twelve years as an IT support person from Win95 to Win7.
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Old 01-25-2016   #3
Erik van Straten
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I did an upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1. NEVER do it. The startmenu disapeared. Now I have a computer without e-mail, apps, agenda etc. Simply gone. I can't download Windows 10 again as I am afraid of loosing elementary customized files of Office 2013 that I need for my work.

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Old 01-25-2016   #4
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I for one am not impressed with the way Microsoft almost forces you to upgrade to Windows 10 with pop ups each time you start up your computer, so another "don't do it" here, Dave.

Windows 7 is supported by Microsoft until January 2020 anyway, so you've got plenty of time to think about an upgrade.

Oh and you also might want to read this: Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made
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Old 01-25-2016   #5
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Don't another Problem for Win 10 is the lack of print and scanner driver a large number of printers is not supported by Win 10 as I had to learn to my detriment.
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Old 01-25-2016   #6
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If you're tired of seeing the reminder then delete the upgrade from your windows updates...
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Old 01-25-2016   #7
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Another vote for staying with windows 7 ... it's on my laptop and has never given any issues so why upgrade.
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Old 01-25-2016   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I did an upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 8. NEVER do it. Now I have a computer without e-mail, apps, agenda etc. They are simply gone. I can't download Windows 10 again as I am afraid of loosing elementary customized files of Office 2013 that I need for my work.

Erik.
Plenty of free email and other apps that are superior to any of the in-built Microsoft stuff. The apps are there by the way, but not the same as you have been used to.
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Old 01-25-2016   #9
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Microsoft lost its way with operating systems years ago. Each release is a new theory about what Windows should be. Windows 8 was supposed to bring phones and PCs to the same interface. We have Windows 10 for PCs with a phone interface, but still no Windows 10 for phones. Remembering that Microsoft designs Windows for Grandmas and gamers gives the right perspective on why Windows is so bad.

Unfortunately Apple now seems to be emulating Microsoft.
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Old 01-25-2016   #10
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I think W7 goes out of support in 2020, so if it is working for you, I'd say stick with it.

W7 has unfortunate effects in some cases - it is not so bad where the hardware is modern and generic (e.g. my desktop) but with laptops the result can be - ahem - unexpected. My laptop refused to upgrade, I tried again some months later, and it did upgrade, but W10 sucked the battery dry in half the time W7 ever did. So I took the option to revert.

Having said which, my desktop is, according to MS, capable of upgrading, but it is clear that there are driver issues and I would be left without sound.

I would say W10 works well if you have a little 2-in-1 tablet cum keyboard, it is what W8.1 should have been but wasn't. So my Asus T100HA works very nicely because it was designed from the ground up to run W10.

However, for a desktop or laptop without touch, W10 offers nothing at all worth the upgrade and you have the risk that there will be some little incompatibility which will irritate the Hell out of you.

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Old 01-25-2016   #11
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Win 8/8.1 was ugly, the install failed on half the machines or left them missing some important component, so that we downgraded everything and remained on Win7. But Win7 to Win10 went absolutely without a hitch for us - the few machines that could not upgrade already were stuck on XP since they could not be upgraded to Win7.

SOFTWARE in general never has been a problem, at least not within the Windows NT strain - the last time I had software fail over a Windows upgrade was between Win 98SE and XP. What you have to look out for are hardware issues - for example Adaptec in their infinite wisdom decided to cut off all legacy SCSI cards from 64-bit support with the introduction of Win7 (a simple edit of the Vista driver installer can restore that capability, but that may be no option if your corporate policy bans drivers with a invalid or missing signature).
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Old 01-25-2016   #12
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[I recently got involved in repairing/preparing laptops for the family, using W7 for them and also my own workstation. (I use Linux 99% of the time, hosting W7 or XP in a 'network air-gapped' virtual machine or running Win programs on Wine/Crossover when necessary.) ]

Anyway, I swapped-in a disc and loaded W8.1 just to test out the upgrade to W10 from there.
W8.1 activated OK once I went through the MS automated on-line procedure.
I then allowed W10 to download and install. Seemed to go OK until ... it demanded a re-activation !
This time the product key wasn't accepted, I had to go on to the interaction with a human operator ... who was a fast-talking, non-native-English speaking lady, and I'm not at my best talking on the 'phone anyway; it was a fiasco . So I've left that on one side for the time being.

If you get W10 ready installed on a new machine, it might be OK running old programs in 'legacy emulation' mode. But anyway, best to check out and adjust the privacy and such-like configurations!
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Old 01-25-2016   #13
sevo
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I then allowed W10 to download and install. Seemed to go OK until ... it demanded a re-activation !
The nuisance of telephonic re-activations has grown extremely common. It affected all our computers where we had done any significant hardware upgrade (pretty common in the emerging SSD era). I suspect that Microsoft do that intentionally to hamper (legal, at least by EU court rule) resellers of used Windows licenses from scrapped computers. But if you can handle twenty digit numbers by phone, it is generally easy going - but if you mistype a single digit, you will only get notified at the end, must start again from scratch and have wasted at least ten minutes...
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Old 01-25-2016   #14
richard_l
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Avoid Windows 10! It's a total mess. The installation destroyed one of my most important databases. In disgust I reverted back to Windows 7.
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Old 01-25-2016   #15
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I took the risk and upgraded it, and the only thing sucky so far is the fact that it simply refuses to detect my DVD drive. I cannot 'burn' files for clients etc. LR5, iPhone works, iTunes had to count as a 'new PC detected'.

The DVD simply cripples my workflow. I have contacted Microsoft support but till today there is no solution. Absurd!
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Old 01-25-2016   #16
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Quote:
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.... I suspect that Microsoft do that intentionally to hamper (legal, at least by EU court rule) resellers of used Windows licenses from scrapped computers....
You are not alone in your suspicion .
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Old 01-25-2016   #17
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Windows 10 is worth the upgrade from 8, but if you are on 7 I would stay there until you know what you need is available on 10.
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Old 01-25-2016   #18
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Originally Posted by Tejasican View Post
Windows 10 is worth the upgrade from 8, but if you are on 7 I would stay there until you know what you need is available on 10.
yes 8 users might actually be happy about 10. although upgrade process can do havoc for customised files, as some comments above indicate.

to get rid of persistent notifications requires some geek work but is possible: link.

best is to get rid of Windows altogether and upgrade to Mac
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Old 01-25-2016   #19
JoeV
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Dave, I make computer chips for a living, and can relate to your frustration. When it was time to get a backup computer I got a refurbished Lenovo from Newegg for a song, with a fresh install of Windows 7, minus all the bloatware. Yes, Windows Updater wants to keep reminding me about the upgrade to Windows 10; and yes, I keep ignoring it. Why should I, when it works the way I want it to now?

Funny enough, but some of the fab equipment that is used to make chips are themselves powered by some pretty antiquated computers. Industrial machine controllers above all else have to be reliable and compatible with an existing software ecosystem; there's no technology treadmill here. In fact, the older the machines are, the better chance that they've been fully depreciated, making the cost per chip even lower. The sweet spot is in putting money into upgrading the processing chambers on these machines; but the software and computers can often be pretty ancient by consumer standards.

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Old 01-25-2016   #20
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Isn't there an analogy here between Windows x and digital cameras? You are pressed into taking the latest, the greatest, the device with the feature you have always wanted.

With anything digital, I always wonder why, if the latest feature is so essential, why wasn't it built like that in the first place?

I mean: look at USB. A simple connection, right? Now they are touting USB-C as ending all those problems we had with micro-USB cables trying to force a cable in upside-down. In which case: WHY MAKE IT THAT WAY ORIGINALLY? It was obviously a dumb design.

Beautiful old mechanical cameras were made to last a lifetime - they served a whole family for decades. Now, we buy something digital, we are on the upgrade cycle every 18 months.

Sorry to rant, but it feels better now it is off my chest. I am going to take my medication now.

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Old 01-25-2016   #21
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I've been a 8.1 and 10 user on the same laptop.
Windows 10 was rather nice but it booted slower than 8.1, then every once in a while it seemed fart up... Interface et al was quite nice.

Long story short, somehow my keyboard got a couple of keys stuck (I thought it was software related) and upon returning home I restored the PC... Which emerged back in 8.1. Thankfully, keyboard was fixed by guarantee and Win 8.1 eventually updated in the last month until recently I got back the "Update to 10 blip".
Knowing I have quite a few months until the upgrade is honored I'm not rushing to update it again. Given the little difference I might just stay in 8.1 anyways.


Got 7 on an older laptop at the living room and it's a great system. Both 8.1 and 10 I found weak in some points, not as solid as 7 or XP on its day.
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Old 01-25-2016   #22
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Well, not to be contrarian but ...

I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10, and the result has been an improvement in overall performance of my PC (programs load more quickly). I use a Dell XPS desktop that's about three years old and has a reasonably fast Intel processor. I continue to use Photoshop CS2 in Windows 10 w/out incident. Under Windows 10, the way the file architecture that was adopted in Windows 7 is displayed is messier, but I can still find my photo folders. This is important to me b/c I've got thousands of photos stored in various folders on the C: drive under the "Pictures" category.

In switching to Windows 10, the only glitch I encountered was that the short-cut for my Epson V500 scanner disappeared from the desktop, but I was able to put it back on the desktop w/out a lot of trouble.

I've been running Windows 10 now for about 3 weeks. Knock on wood, it's been OK.
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Old 01-25-2016   #23
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One of the local post-production industry experts who worked in our company for several years gave up on Microsoft about five years ago.

It is not computer it is OS and software. Microsoft lost it reliability after Server 2008, Windows 7 and SQL 2008.
I'm installing same systems since 1998. In 2015 the amount of bugs, instability and other issues related to OS increased dramatically.
Even at home, we have Dell laptop with Win 8 with nothing else installed except anti-virus, fire-wall... Free offer came from MS to get Win 10. I agreed, but it failed, the MS OS products are so bad now it can't even do upgrade.
Now I have Win 8 laptop with HDD space getting eaten by MS OS. People complaining about this issue since 2013, but MS gives no crap.

No surprise why I still remember reading the interview in Helsinki newspaper with Linus Torvalds in nineties...
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Old 01-25-2016   #24
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There are three editions I like. Windows XP, 2000 and 7. The rest is IMO rather problematic...
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Old 01-25-2016   #25
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I'm sorry for everyone who can't deliver to customers because of upgrade to newer Windows. Operating system is as important component as computer hardware or as Lightroom version - none should be replaced without testing if one wants to be sure. This is why in environments willing to keep systems running pick identical or reasonably similar hardware and install new OS or new application to know if and how it works. Sometimes every single piece seems to be OK but together they wont work. Or what's worse - won't work properly just from time to time. Under specific conditions. Every other full moon. Once per quarter, but not at closing days. Trust me, you would never hit upgrade button again on your only computer you use to do work for customers, know you how it happens.

Photographers are OK with idea of backup body. You know now what I mean, right?
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Old 01-25-2016   #26
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My experiences have been quite the opposite.

I took the opportunity to upgrade from 8.1 as I was having some random rebooting issues and since have had absolutely zero problems. I initially moved to 8.1 so that my desktop and Surface Pro had the same OS.

I have a i7 Quad core with 12gb of memory and a serious gaming video card (which usually gets an upgrade yearly). Since installing 10 my computer boots much quicker and general operation is faster. All peripherals work as designed including three older scanners (Scan Multipro, Canon FS2710 and Canon 9950F).

All existing programs also run just as well if not faster including MS Office (2016) and Adobe Creative Suite 5. I am a gaming nut and all my games are fine.

I have had PC's since 3.1 and remember writing boot disks to get around initial memory issues back in the day.

No problems here.

Cheers - John
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Old 01-25-2016   #27
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I'm a long time Linux user but since I have an iPhone I dual boot Windows and Linux. I also prefer the software for my Epson scanner on Windows to the Linux version.

I got tired of the constant popups wanting me to upgrade to Win 10 so I did a bit of searching and found I could download the full version of Windows 10 for free since I had a valid key for Windows 7 and install from scratch so I went that route. I have had it for 2 months now and haven't had a single problem. Everything works as it is supposed to. Dual booting with Linux is also seamless. I have not found any problems with software compatibility either.

If you right-click on the start button you have the Windows 7 style start so it is very close to Windows 7.
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Old 01-25-2016   #28
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I'm on Windows 8.1 and despite people complaining about it, I've been A-OK with the system. I hear Windows 10 has problems, including forced updates which automatically reboot your computer. No thanks.
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Old 01-25-2016   #29
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I'm currently a Mac user.. But I've been a Windows and Linux user as well in the past. I moved totally to Mac when I retired. The one thing I learned no matter which OS (even Mac OS X), always test out a new OS upgrade on a external HD.

I typical clone my computer HD to an external HD. Then boot from that external HD. Run the upgrade install on the external HD. Play w/ the new OS for about a month or so, if everything is fine, u can either clone from the external HD or do another install.

Another approach I have used in the past before boot from USB was available was setting up a dual bootable partition. I would have my current stuff running on one and the other was reserved for the new OS upgrade.

It is definitely a lot more work, but I have been the victim of a bad upgrade from all three of them (Mac, Windows and Linux) before either because a critical program didn't work any longer or a HD driver wasn't support or just buggy new upgrade OS...

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Old 01-25-2016   #30
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Quote:
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I hear Windows 10 has problems, including forced updates which automatically reboot your computer. No thanks.
While it is true that updates are automatic, automatic reboots are not. It still ask you for a reboot or you can schedule reboots.

There is always a lot of false information whenever any OS whether it be Windows, Mac, Linux, etc upgrades.
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Old 01-25-2016   #31
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Win 10 works fine for me on my machines using the upgrade path from legit Win 7 software. Good luck to those having issues - can be very frustrating no matter what the OS.
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Old 01-25-2016   #32
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I'd wait until SP3 comes out for Win 10

Heck, I'm still on WinXP SP3, and by using a few choice apps it is a secure as Win7 or 8. My wife is on Win7 and I hate using it.
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Old 01-25-2016   #34
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btw that "update 10 blip" is not only thing that "patch" does. it also checks and downloads windows 10 installation files on background, so they are ready if user finally agrees, and says yes to the blip. so they consume HD space, even if user never plans to upgrade to 10.

if deleting those files, patch will download them again. so only way to permanently get rid of it all is to remove the patch altogether. google "delete KB3035583".
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Old 01-25-2016   #35
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I've installed W10 on 3 machines so far.
-My custom-built PC, zero problems.
-My dad's PC (my former custom machine), problem with start menu at some point but fine now.
-My HP Pavilion 7 laptop - Super slow waking from sleep mode (driver issue), start menu disappeared (system restore).

The future-shock of transition from W7 to W10 is less horrible than W8 to W10 where you have to figure out where everything is again.

I've heard of people having driver troubles with their scanners, and Office needing to be re-activated, but no other particularly serious troubles.
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Old 01-26-2016   #36
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Microsoft lost my support with the Windows 8 "upgrade" to Windows 8.1.

What absolute crap service.

I tried making the upgrade not once but perhaps 20 times over 2 years or more. Each time the download (2-3 gigs) goes fine then there is 15 -20 minutes of the PC fritzing about trying to install the upgrade then right at the end, it fails - every time. No explanation, no proper diagnostics, just a general error message. And a waste of time and downloads which on a limited contract is a PITA.

There is no explanation, or wizard, or diagnostic tool, or fix from Microsoft although scores of thousands of users apparently with the same problem. They just dont seem to care.

Lots of theories by various users (e.g. your system was not fully up to date with patches etc (untrue) but none of these has played out). Despite numerous searches of MS site there is nothing I can see that is a fix that works. In fact they seem to have washed their hands of the whole issue.

And here's the thing. You cannot upgrade to Windows 10 without first upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1. When I took my PC to a repair guy his suggestion was to blitz it and start again with a clean install of Windows 8 then go through the upgrade then reinstall all my apps. Why would I do that unless I absolutely have to? I have been through it before and it takes weeks of re-downloading and reinstalling of software to get back even close to where you were before. And for what - there is just no reason I would want to put myself through that voluntarily, either for Windows 8.1 or for Windows 10. Microsoft sucks and the only reason I have it is because quite a few applications I use need it.
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Old 01-26-2016   #37
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I have mixed feelings with it.
On my old Dell latitude e4300 although it haD been installed without any problems, it eats up the battery a lot faster than Windows 7.
On my HP Pavilion x2 tablet, it works perfectly and its battery seems to last forever.
I am also a bit skeptical with that hardened internet integration, but it seems to be the shape of thinks to come.
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Old 01-26-2016   #38
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Lots of moaning! <eye roll>

I've been a Windows user since the mid-90s and Windows 3.1, and am now using Windows 10 without a hitch after upgrading from Windows 7. Took a little while to get used to it - like moving to a new home! - but I'm happy: it's sleeker and snappier than Windows 7.

Before upgrading, I made sensible preparations: I checked that drivers were available (or a workaround) for all my hardware - no problems, not even for the decade-old Spyder2 monitor profiler or my even older (1997!) and trusty HP LaserJet printer! Ditto important software: I occasionally need to use Ventura 10, an ancient DTP program that came out 14 years ago - with a little tinkering during installation, it runs fine; even Vern 2, a little utility dating from 1998 I love performs without a hitch!

If Windows 10, your software or hardware isn't working properly, then the problem's likely not Windows but at your end: a broken Windows 7 resulting in a buggy update, or very old (i.e. incompatible) hardware or software.

Like its predecessors, the way Windows 10 works can be customised to your taste (much more so than OS X), so if you don't like something you can probably change it...

And what's wrong with auto-updates? Seems sensible to me. These aren't frivolous, and Windows updates fix bugs, improve features and sort out security flaws. Why wouldn't you not want that!? Hopefully, auto-updates will eventually mean fewer viruses and malware around to attack us because idiots haven't updated their computers! I've let Windows install updates for years - because it'd be stupid not to.

Case in point (and a warning to those still using Windows XP): Windows XP is obsolete - it came out in 2002, and Microsoft stopped support 2 years ago (including updates to fix security breaches). So, not only won't a lot of current programs and hardware work but you're far more likely to become infected with viruses and malware. It's no accident that of all the versions of Windows, XP is by far the most riddled with viruses and worms: in one recent instance, 50% of the computers powering a major attack were running XP (http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows...l-these-years/)!

Computers aren't like old cameras, to be cherished and handed on. They're disposable and have a use by date.

Go on, chuck that old system. It's gone crusty and is smelling a little ripe...!
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Old 01-26-2016   #39
dave lackey
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Thanks to everyone for your input!

As I said, I am a photographer not a geek. If I can't get a reliable, easy to use program to do what I have been doing for decades, I will give up photography completely and start oil painting!

I have heard and read enough that W10 is NOT for me. Ever.

W7, I can probably live with a long time, and I have had no problems so far, except maybe the speakers and sub-woofer I plugged in but that was not even important. I have no desire to get into sound systems.

I reckon I can do what I need for a few years with what I have... I am keeping my old Dell with XP so all is not lost if I have a problem and with a Seagate backup, W7 should be enough. Thank goodness I did not go for the "upgrade by hitting the W10 button" promise of a better world!
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Old 01-26-2016   #40
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I am very pleased I have not viewed a Microsoft OS or App screen for 16 years.

However, I also know the probability of being trashed by ransomware or other security flaws is much lower with Windows 10. The security improvements in 10 just makes 7 a more juicy target. XP is even more vulnerable despite it's steadily decreasing usage. Microsoft no longer issues security patched for Windows XP. If you use XP for photography and the computer is connected to the internet, back up your photo libraries/archives whenever they change. A close friend of mine lost all of their photos to ransomware last fall when their Windows XP computer was compromised with ransomware.
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