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Old 12-01-2015   #41
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Right I agree, but I'd rather do it with something I love using than something that isn't that great for what I want to do. Sometimes a tool can un-inspire as well.
I agree, there are really cameras one cannot get along with.

I received a Contax G kit as a long term loaner, and gave it back, it was impossible for me to take photos with it, I just could not figure how it worked, it was like trying to use Klingon technology.
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Old 12-01-2015   #42
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Why do you use a Leica MP instead of a Pentax K1000? I would imagine you find the MP nicer to work with... that can be call inspiration as well I would think.
The MP doesn't inspire me to take pictures, I use it because I find it simple to use. Yes I love using it but I try not to depend on external things for motivation
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Old 12-01-2015   #43
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
If one's idea of quality is how well the camera resolves, the Leica Q and SL with their teeny tiny 24mp sensors have already been shown to outresolve their 'equivalents' - the Sony RXii and the A7Rii.
I'm not so sure about that. DxOMark tested lenses on the A7R that can resolve more than 30MP (http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Sony/S...-Sony-A7R__917). That is not possible with a 24MP sensor .

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And that is before you take into account that the Leicas are nicer to handle and use
That is definitely subjective. Ming Thein does not find SL that comfortable: " In shooting configuration with the 24-90 mounted, you’re looking at about 2.1kg. The bare lens is about the size of an Otus 55 with the hood mounted. This of course has a knock-on effect on ergonomics: though the grip is substantial, it is too straight and not sufficiently contoured for you to support the camera’s weight comfortably. The only way to shoot this combination is by supporting the lens in your left hand. I honestly didn’t find the grip comfortable, and landed up with sore fingers and a claw after a day of shooting it. I suspect that balance will be much better with M or R lenses, but then you lose AF and IS."
http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/10/21...-leica-sl-601/

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and have better EVFs.
I would agree on this.
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Old 12-01-2015   #44
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I'm not so sure about that. DxOMark tested lenses on the A7R that can resolve more than 30MP (http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Sony/S...-Sony-A7R__917). That is not possible with a 24MP sensor .
The Dpreview studio comparison shows the Q to perform much better than the Sony, as does Huff's 100% magnification samples in his review.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/856...dio-test-scene
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Old 12-01-2015   #45
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The Dpreview studio comparison shows the Q to perform much better than the Sony, as does Huff's 100% magnification samples in his review.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/856...dio-test-scene
I wouldn't use dpreview as an example for resolution since they don't use the optimal lens and most of the time they don't focus properly. But if you want an example here:

Capture.jpg

I won't even discuss Huff's samples .
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Old 12-01-2015   #46
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I wouldn't use dpreview as an example for resolution since they don't use the optimal lens and most of the time they don't focus properly. But if you want an example here:

Attachment 103418

I won't even discuss Huff's samples .
It is funny when he 'tests' lens sharpness by having a subject that is only in focus dead center, while the rest is completely out of focus. He got kinda bent out of shape when someone pointed out the field curvature in his images of his CV 35 1.7 test, which he said had no flaws whatsoever.
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Old 12-01-2015   #47
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Originally Posted by Lauffray View Post
The MP doesn't inspire me to take pictures, I use it because I find it simple to use. Yes I love using it but I try not to depend on external things for motivation
Ok, I guess people are all different. I photograph a lot... and I'll still admit to finding some cameras an absolute joy to use and the thing, at times, to get me out the door and photographing. I don't care what gets me motivated to go out and photograph, as long as something does.
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Old 12-01-2015   #48
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Of course not when we are talking about >$4K cameras, my opinion is based on reading reviews & spec-sheets .

I don't see why not.
Because it isn't all based on specs. You won't understand until you see one in person.
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Old 12-01-2015   #49
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Ok, I guess people are all different. I photograph a lot... and I'll still admit to finding some cameras an absolute joy to use and the thing, at times, to get me out the door and photographing. I don't care what gets me motivated to go out and photograph, as long as something does.
I'm with u on this. Some cameras I have just make me want to get out there They make the whole experience so enjoyable - Rolleiflex, Leica 1f, M3 and M5, Nikon F, FE2. Others I gotta sell, like my Bessa R3A that I have been recently using. I want to enjoy using it but for some reason I haven't gelled with it. It just feels 'clanky'.
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Old 12-01-2015   #50
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Because it isn't all based on specs. You won't understand until you see one in person.
This happened to me with the X Vario. When it first came out and was not locally available, I read the online fora and came to the conclusion that this was a horrid camera. And then it turned up at the local Leica store, and I have been thinking about excuses to own it ever since. Over here the price has now gone down by more than a third, brand new, but I think I will save up for the M Typ 262 instead.

I agree with you. The right equipment can also be a motivating factor to take pics. My A5100 just doesn't inspire me to take photos, although the output is very good and the video even more so. Every time I use it I hate it. So I only use it as a backup camera for work. My Blackmagic Pocket inspires me to take videos more, and for photos so does my recently acquired Ricoh GXR.
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Old 12-01-2015   #51
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Ok, I guess people are all different. I photograph a lot... and I'll still admit to finding some cameras an absolute joy to use and the thing, at times, to get me out the door and photographing. I don't care what gets me motivated to go out and photograph, as long as something does.
While I perfectly understand what you are describing, I cannot but admit this is one of the things that define my gear addiction.

Imagine a painter saying the same thing about a brush.

A tool has to be able to do what you want and get out of the way while you are doing it, but the inspiration and the drive has to come from the images themselves. Otherwise it reminds me of reviewers that "smell" cameras. Having used quite a few cameras, I can say that if you learn to use them, most cameras nowadays can do what we need them to do and get out of the way while we are doing it.

I am sure SL is a great camera and will feel great. I am also sure that when someone spends so much money for a camera, there is a force other than the images themselves that drives him/her to take pictures, call it gear addiction or the angry spouse that heard "I will make better pictures if I buy this camera" too many times.

Had I been wealthy I might have tried the camera too. Had I needed inspiration, I would have tried reading a book or taking a trip instead of buying any camera.
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Old 12-01-2015   #52
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While I perfectly understand what you are describing, I cannot but admit this is one of the things that define my gear addiction.

Imagine a painter saying the same thing about a brush.
I can... you may want to google "paint brush" and "forum" ... people make best brush threads, they do reviews of brushes, etc. That said, we all know that cameras and paint brushes couldn't be any dissimilar. Like I said we are all different. I don't have a gear addiction, but I do love the cameras that I use.

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A tool has to be able to do what you want and get out of the way while you are doing it, but the inspiration and the drive has to come from the images themselves. Otherwise it reminds me of reviewers that "smell" cameras.
Why do these two things have to be mutual exclusive? It always seems silly to me that people cannot like cameras and photographs at the same time.

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I am sure SL is a great camera and will feel great. I am also sure that when someone spends so much money for a camera, there is a force other than the images themselves that drives him/her to take pictures, call it gear addiction or the angry spouse that heard "I will make better pictures if I buy this camera" too many times.
Plenty of people just buy a camera and don't worry about what others think. Some don't even care if they make great images... they are just enjoying life with a camera that they bought because they liked it. You cannot equate money spent on a camera to the quality of output (ultimately determined by the user). Not sure why people think that if you spend a lot of cash, you must prove yourself.

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Had I been wealthy I might have tried the camera too. Had I needed inspiration, I would have tried reading a book or taking a trip instead of buying any camera.
It's not for me either... but some just make a lot of money and spend thousands like I spend dollars. Some just truly feel that a Leica is the camera that fits them best. There's enough time in life to read a book, take a trio, AND buy / use cameras. I don't get upset at how others spend their cash. It's an exercise in futility.
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Old 12-01-2015   #53
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I hope I did not sound like I don't like or enjoy Steve Huffs site.
He seems like a hell of a good family man and nice guy. .... Usually is fun to read.
He may eb right about the SL... It could be the camera of the year.
If the Q had an f2/35mm lens I would vote for it though.... Not buying either any-day soon (maybe never).
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Old 12-01-2015   #54
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I hope I did not sound like I don't like or enjoy Steve Huffs site.
He seems like a hell of a good family man and nice guy. .... Usually is fun to read.
He may eb right about the SL... It could be the camera of the year.
If the Q had an f2/35mm lens I would vote for it though.... Not buying either any-day soon (maybe never).
and he speaks with spirits!

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Old 12-01-2015   #55
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I hope I did not sound like I don't like or enjoy Steve Huffs site.
He seems like a hell of a good family man and nice guy. .... Usually is fun to read.
He may eb right about the SL... It could be the camera of the year.
If the Q had an f2/35mm lens I would vote for it though.... Not buying either any-day soon (maybe never).

He is very up beat, which is a good place to be.
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Old 12-01-2015   #56
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I hope I did not sound like I don't like or enjoy Steve Huffs site.
He seems like a hell of a good family man and nice guy. .... Usually is fun to read.
He may be right about the SL... It could be the camera of the year.
If the Q had an f2/35mm lens I would vote for it though.... Not buying either any-day soon (maybe never).
He's a very smart guy, he's one of the successful photography bloggers, in a field littered with failed bloggers whose reviews no one reads.


But I have to say how does he get away with not making very flattering photos of his wife. In this review the first image has wrong white balance and since it's shot at 35mm, the features of his wife are distorted.
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Old 12-01-2015   #57
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Why do these two things have to be mutual exclusive? It always seems silly to me that people cannot like cameras and photographs at the same time.
Let alone the fact that I don't believe that being inspired is a prerequisite to doing anything, I understand motivation to be an internal force. The only thing motivating me to make pictures is the irrepressible desire to make pictures all the time, to go out and see things and different places. If my camera breaks down or gets stolen or if I borrow my friend's camera, my desire to make pictures is unchanged.
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Old 12-01-2015   #58
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I liked following Steve Huff's homeless bio-pic project, back some time ago, before he had the wider readership he's garnered now. Don't follow him anymore, as he seemed to move to heavy-weight gear promotion.

Regarding inspiration/motivation to shoot, that seems like a very individual thing. Travel, new subjects, different light and space, all stimulate. A change in gear, even just a small one, can stimulate too. Frequent compulsive gear change doesn't seem consistent with moving positively with one's talent and productivity, but what do I know other than what works for me? If changing a camera inspires someone to shoot more or better or whatever, I see no reason to question or criticize it.
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Old 12-01-2015   #59
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I played with one a couple of times at the NYC Leica Store. Mixed feelings mostly...

I like the EVF. Resolution is visibly higher than the A7rII. Eye relief is excellent. Contrast and WB not so much. Shadows are hard to judge on the Leica. But generally speaking, this is probably the best EVF out there.

Body is large and clunky. Surprisingly not heavy at all. Feels too big for a 35mm Summilux or 75mm Summicron. Balance is much better with the Noctilux. Button layout seems to be designed with AF lenses in mind, and not quite enough for the functionality of this camera. I might be in the minority here in preferring everything to be physical and only one click away, though.

Files are largely the same affair as the M240. Reasonable at low ISOs, banding at over 6,400. Resolution does not in any way compare to the A7rII - although the lack of AA means a distinct crispness over the A7II. However, when you have a $2,800 body that shoots visibly clean files at 12,800 with double the pixel count and two stops of shadow detail to spare at 100...the SL's price becomes a harder pill to swallow.

To me the SL still feels like a first gen product - much like the M8 or the 645D. Sony has had three year to work out the kinks in high-end mirrorless (five if you count the NEX-7), and I expect Leica to do better with a similar time frame. For the moment, a M-P 240 seems like the better answer for M lenses, and professional DSLR systems (D750) are neither significantly heavier nor larger.
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Old 12-01-2015   #60
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Originally Posted by Hsg View Post
He's a very smart guy, he's one of the successful photography bloggers, in a field littered with failed bloggers whose reviews no one reads.


But I have to say how does he get away with not making very flattering photos of his wife. In this review the first image has wrong white balance and since it's shot at 35mm, the features of his wife are distorted.

That first pic of his wife stood out for me too. Bad white balance equals awful skin tones ... I was surprised he posted it like that.

As for the review itself ... it's fine provided you understand were he's coming from and what sort of person he is. I was surprised there wasn't an unboxing video ... or maybe there was and I missed it!
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Old 12-01-2015   #61
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I was surprised there wasn't an unboxing video ... or maybe there was and I missed it!
I love unboxing videos, you never know what people send you..




http://vid12.photobucket.com/albums/...psxkcc9tql.mp4
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Old 12-01-2015   #62
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At least Huff uses it for a while before he comments on it's quality relative to other cameras.
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Old 12-01-2015   #63
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I am not sure which is worth less - the blogger's reviews or the reviews of those reviews! Give me KR anyday - he knows how to play an audience. I suspect he tutored Trump at one point.
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Old 12-01-2015   #64
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I am not sure which is worth less - the blogger's reviews or the reviews of those reviews! Give me KR anyday - he knows how to play an audience. I suspect he tutored Trump at one point.
KR does call it the biggest M Kamera yet, so there is that for accuracy..
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Old 12-01-2015   #65
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The problem is that except from the EVF, Sony is already making something better at a lower price
I have to wonder if you really read the review, because what Steve does do well is differentiate the SL from the A7r2, and he has much experience with the latter.

Not a few A7r2s are collecting dust because their owners just don't enjoy using them.

The A7r2 does make excellent images with it's native lenses, when you find good copies. Ming went through 6 55s to get a nice one. The 35/2.8 is notorious for decentering, and Lensrentals testing has shown really large copy variation compared to Canikon norms in the 90/2.8 and 35/1.4, The 16-35 is also famous for variation.

And you need those natives to hit the high notes, as the A7r2 has such a thick cover glass, which will take the edge of many film lenses.

The build of the A7r2 is toy-like in comparison to the SL, weathering proofing a joke, the batteries are still leftover from the Nex-5, as are the terrible menus, and the subpar RAWS. The Leica will AF faster, it will burst faster, it does not lag, and even the video is better, which is funny, because all the major advances in the A7r2 are motivated by video, not stills. But 42mp is a hypnotic number, and the BSI sensor is a nice one, with improved color rendering, for sure. The camera can make superb images, but the caveat list is very long.

So it's no problem to compare it to the Leica, or not. They are very very different on the ground. The Leica is ready to shoot 50 years of lenses close to their film performance. The Sony has a handful of natives and adds an extra layer of optics, with FC to many older lenses.

As to expense: sorry 7K is not what it used to be, and plenty of people spend that on a mountain bike: but a really nice one. Just because something is too expensive for me or you does not mean it's overpriced. Plenty of nice things in this world I can't afford, including the SL.

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How can a tool be inspiring. Only on the internet do people give so much weight to the opinion of a complete stranger
Oh yes, I'm inspired equally by a Ford Taurus and Mini Cooper. I'll drive them just the same.

Did you realize books are generally written by strangers? Huff has been around a long time and as comments here show, his tendencies are well known on a variety of levels. He is popular because he is not such a stranger.
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Old 12-01-2015   #66
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and he speaks with spirits!

.....
That paranormal Huff stuff is a hoax right ?!?
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Old 12-01-2015   #67
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I think there's a bit of 'The Hoff' in 'The Huff!'
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Old 12-01-2015   #68
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Old 12-01-2015   #69
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i liked huff's street bio-pic project back when.
This one?

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Old 12-01-2015   #70
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Ming Thein reviewed the Leica SL.
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Old 12-01-2015   #71
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Not a few A7r2s are collecting dust because their owners just don't enjoy using them.
Is there any evidence for that? When I was in Leica store NYC there were three A7rII's in the store, including mine. All of them had M lenses on them. I liked mine enough to sell all of my medium format digital gear.

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The build of the A7r2 is toy-like in comparison to the SL, weathering proofing a joke, the batteries are still leftover from the Nex-5, as are the terrible menus, and the subpar RAWS. The Leica will AF faster, it will burst faster, it does not lag, and even the video is better, which is funny, because all the major advances in the A7r2 are motivated by video, not stills. But 42mp is a hypnotic number, and the BSI sensor is a nice one, with improved color rendering, for sure. The camera can make superb images, but the caveat list is very long.
Batteries are from the NEX-5, which means that I can use my batteries from my old NEX-5. I have half a dozen of those lying around, mostly from Sony. Replacing all of them would be pretty expensive - as I did when Canon insisted on using a new battery for every single new DSLR. I would much rather take the 350 frames and the ability to use old batteries (including $10 generic ones from ebay) than to buy a set of new OEMs with every upgrade cycle.

As for build quality, the A7rII is the same basic layout as the SL - a full metal chassis with a sandwiched layer for rigidity. Modern cameras are generally rugged - I've taken lowly cameras such as the NEX-6 out in rain and snow, and they held up just fine. Leica may have perfected the feel and finish, but being made in Germany doesn't magically make it more durable. To the contrary, Sony has had ~4 full frame releases without a significant hardware problem. Leica had sensor corrosion with the M9, and strap lugs with the M240.

I also think it's odd that people bring up the SL as a viable action camera. It is not a viable alternative to a 1d or D4. The Leica does 11fps without tracking. With tracking it drops to 4-5fps, which is still respectable but no better than the fastest mirrorless alternatives. The 1DX does 14fps with full tracking - that's what gets those wonderful shots at the world cup and olympics. It also writes to fast CF cards in RAW with a virtually limitless buffer. The SL maxes out after less than 4 seconds at 11fps. The 1D cameras also have an endless grab bag of feature sets catering to every whim of sports pros. Shooting with one of them is an empowering experience. The SL is not quite in the same league. No mirrorless is, at least as of 2015.
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Old 12-01-2015   #72
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I also think it's odd that people bring up the SL as a viable action camera. It is not a viable alternative to a 1d or D4. The Leica does 11fps without tracking. With tracking it drops to 4-5fps, which is still respectable but no better than the fastest mirrorless alternatives. The 1DX does 14fps with full tracking - that's what gets those wonderful shots at the world cup and olympics. It also writes to fast CF cards in RAW with a virtually limitless buffer. The SL maxes out after less than 4 seconds at 11fps. The 1D cameras also have an endless grab bag of feature sets catering to every whim of sports pros. Shooting with one of them is an empowering experience. The SL is not quite in the same league. No mirrorless is, at least as of 2015.
I agree with you here. The SL with that big zoom can do action, but not like full-blown Canikon.

As to the other points, I don't really want to turn the thread into a giant Sony v Leica debate--probably already said too much. You love the A7 series as is, and more power to you. I was reacting to one silly dismissal of the SL and gave the counter view, which I've been following.

Many people don't enjoy the Sony shooting experience, but put up with it for the size, cost, and results. Others have multiple bodies and report going back to their RF cameras. But plenty more are just crazy about the Sony, like you and even love the batteries. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Also note I'm a daily A7.mod shooter, alongside my M9, and I like both cameras


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Old 12-01-2015   #73
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and he speaks with spirits!

http://huffparanormal.com/about-me/
the ghosts of oskar barnack and ernst leitz told him that the leica sl is the camera of the year.
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Old 12-02-2015   #74
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Let alone the fact that I don't believe that being inspired is a prerequisite to doing anything, I understand motivation to be an internal force. The only thing motivating me to make pictures is the irrepressible desire to make pictures all the time, to go out and see things and different places. If my camera breaks down or gets stolen or if I borrow my friend's camera, my desire to make pictures is unchanged.
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it Jerome. Not when you use one of the nicest Leica cameras ever made. I'm ultimately motivated by photography as well... since if I'm not making photos, I won't own my cameras.
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Old 12-02-2015   #75
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Egad. His many spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors are painful for me to endure. But I gotta admit, his excitement is infectious. I agree with those who find this camera hard to justify when you can get a new A7 for under a thousand dollars, but I'm delighted that Leica seems to be back in the game, creating new weird stuff that surprises everybody.
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Old 12-02-2015   #76
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Also, you gotta love that he's adding VSCO filters, with artificial grain, to his lens test images.
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Old 12-02-2015   #77
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Huff is a very nice guy and a successful blogger when many others have failed to get traction. How he developed such a following when others haven't is something about which I've been scratching my head for three or four years. I rarely visit his site but still get emails about new articles.

Whether any of this makes him an authority on photography and gear is debatable, however. <wink>

Like Rockwell, he seems to know how to generate forum posts that drive more traffic to his site. He's obviously figured that part out--employing sales reps without having to actually pay them.
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Old 12-02-2015   #78
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I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it Jerome. Not when you use one of the nicest Leica cameras ever made. I'm ultimately motivated by photography as well... since if I'm not making photos, I won't own my cameras.
haha I can see how that would seem contradictory, I love my MP but I've had the chance to test my theory on multiple occasions
Still shooting your Fuji btw ?
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Old 12-02-2015   #79
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That first pic of his wife stood out for me too. Bad white balance equals awful skin tones ... I was surprised he posted it like that.

As for the review itself ... it's fine provided you understand were he's coming from and what sort of person he is. I was surprised there wasn't an unboxing video ... or maybe there was and I missed it!
We don't want Alex Webb to start reviewing cameras, but those who 'review' must at least have the basic skills to shoot a distortion free, color corrected and well-framed portrait.
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Old 12-02-2015   #80
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That's the one, yes. Glad you found and shared it, thanks Gabor.
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