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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Interchangable lens travel camera OMD? EOS M? Something else?
Old 11-05-2015   #1
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Interchangable lens travel camera OMD? EOS M? Something else?

Love my M9 but not the best camera for travel and longer lenses (think safari/backpacking) etc.

So need to wade into the morass of CSC, M 4/3 or even gasp small-ish DSLR cameras and don't know where to start (or even what forum to start in really).

Not tied to any particular manufacturer but want something small, simple and rangefinder like in experience (good manual mode that doesn't require diving into menus or turning lots of stuff off to make the camera get out of my way).

Really like the way color looks out of the M9 so wouldn't be opposed to an older camera with a CCD but new is fine too.

Where to start?
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Old 11-05-2015   #2
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Old 11-05-2015   #3
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The menus on the OMD series are not fun, but you can learn to set the camera up for the way you like to work and not have to fool with the menu much after that. I have traveled extensively with the E-M5 and just a Panasonic 14-140mm (28-280 equivalent) f3.5-5.6. Add a Panasonic 20mm f1.7 for low light and you're set for just about anything, unless you prefer to shoot wider than 28mm equivalent, in which case you could add the Oly 9-18 or one of the other wide zooms.
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Old 11-05-2015   #4
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from having owned fuji x, m43, and eos m - if you want long lenses for something like a safari, the only system that will ultimately be smaller is m43.

eos m is apsc and only has one tele-zoom, which isn't particularly small for the range it covers. you can use other canon lenses with an adapter, but then you're losing any size advantage. very touchscreen driven control, very un-RF. that said, i personally really like the touchscreen control, it's well implemented.

fuji x is apsc and great handling and probably closest to RF in experience. but i believe the long lenses are large - i haven't used any of them though.

m43 such as the gx7/ gx8 / OMD have nice handling imo (lots of dials so you don't have to dive into menus once you set it up), and m43 lenses are actually smaller than apsc equivalents. of course you give up sensor size and shallow DOF.
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Old 11-05-2015   #5
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Seems like this might be a good option.

Don't need to go wider than 28 and would probably bring along a GRD for city stuff anyway.

How are the files out of the OMD? Looking for nice natural seeming color without a ton of post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Jenkins View Post
The menus on the OMD series are not fun, but you can learn to set the camera up for the way you like to work and not have to fool with the menu much after that. I have traveled extensively with the E-M5 and just a Panasonic 14-140mm (28-280 equivalent) f3.5-5.6. Add a Panasonic 20mm f1.7 for low light and you're set for just about anything, unless you prefer to shoot wider than 28mm equivalent, in which case you could add the Oly 9-18 or one of the other wide zooms.
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Old 11-05-2015   #6
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Nikon D3300 with the 18-55 kit lens is tiny, relatively cheap, 24 mp sensor w/o AA filter. About $500 or less. I'm getting one as soon as I can sell some surplus Leica glass.
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Old 11-05-2015   #7
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E-mail me with your e-mail address to [email protected] and I'll send you a full-size jpeg of this shot.

The auto white balance and exposure metering of the E-M5 are by far the best of any camera I've ever used (and I've used many!).
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File Type: jpg P8318050_resize.JPG (93.5 KB, 15 views)
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Old 11-05-2015   #8
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That Nikon D3300 or the earlier D3000 is on the list as well.

This was mentioned in the "wrong camera" thread and intrigued me.

I wonder what the real world differences are in size and ease of use between a small DSLR like the Nikon and an M 4/3 like the Olympus.

Will have to see if I can find some comparisons of the images out of each of these as that's probably the most important thing. The older models of the Olympus and the Nikon are both in the $500 range right now.
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Old 11-05-2015   #9
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I should mention that the Olympus OMD is the only camera I've ever used that I would trust to shoot straight jpegs, rather than RAW.

The Nikon D3000 series are small, but the lenses are quite a bit bigger. My OMD-E-M5 with the Panasonic 14-140 lens and a Domke strap weighs 26 ounces on my office scales. Add the Panasonic 20mm to the scales and the total package is about 30 ounces.
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Old 11-05-2015   #10
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Fuji X-t1?
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Old 11-05-2015   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
Love my M9 but not the best camera for travel and longer lenses (think safari/backpacking) etc.
The latest long-lens camera I have used a lot is the OM-D E-M5. A usable camera, but for serious work I recommend getting some of the high-end lenses in the MFT system. It's really MFT or a DSLR if you ask me. For travel, backpacking, and hiking I mainly use my M8, though. Can't be beat for the price.

Quote:
Not tied to any particular manufacturer but want something small, simple and rangefinder like in experience
Small and relatively simple is doable. The OM-D line is a good candidate.
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Old 11-05-2015   #12
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It gets down to these factors..IMHO
- how much is weight important to your travel camera
- size whether lens or body
- af speed and high ISO preformce
- user control design and menus

I have owned and used a lot of different cameras... For af speed, nothing beats a dslr. I currently own a Nikon d7100.

For travel, I have settled on the following cameras in order of weight.. Heaviest to lightest.
- Fuji xt1 w/ 18-135 (weather resistant lens and body)
- Panasonic gx7 w/ 12-32 and 40-200 (going someplace where I need good zoom range)
- Panasonic lx100 (city type vacation, 4k video and like Fuji an old school user control layout).

The 40-200 zoom is not the best out there, there are better.. 40-150 is fine by 200 it gets soft comparably speaking. I choose it for price and weight mainly.

I have had the em5 mk1.. For me, I never got along w/ the user menus. Most things once setup don't need to go back to menus, but w/ my bad memory , when I need to go back, it was really hard to remember where that particular item was.

In terms of video forget the Fuji. Panasonic and Sony are the two best when it comes to video IMHO (mirrorless).

I always have a p&s backup camera.. Right now it is the Ricoh GR.

Good luck
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Old 11-05-2015   #13
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fuji xt10 is tiny...50-230 is very lightweight, but not tiny.
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Old 11-05-2015   #14
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Travel camera with long lens?

For me, it's a question of what lens system I want to use.

My answer for long lenses is Nikon, so it's a compact Nikon APS body. Say, a D-7200 with a 300 f/4 for safari shooting.
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Old 11-05-2015   #15
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my next backpack trip is with Sony RX10 & Leica M8 + 1 lens havent decided yet.
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Old 11-05-2015   #16
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Safari, backpacking... Depends how tough cookie you are.
If you do it for real, think weather sealing first, not tele-shmele.
I think, OMD has it. EOS M with tele is more for backyard birding, IMO.
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Old 11-05-2015   #17
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Thanks for the responses.

Video not important at all. Will never use it. AF speed not important unless it's a real hinderance. If there's something that I can manually focus, I will. Don't care at all about high ISO. I'm used to using my m9 set at ISO 640 and basically never touching it. I treat it like film. I actually have forgotten ISO is another setting I can use.

Something where I can directly control the aperture and shutter speed and preferably see them both without looking at a screen would make me most comfortable. Anything where I need to futz with menus takes me away from shooting.

Whatever is closest to a fully manual camera is probably best as I've been shooting film and digital Ms for many years along with a film and digital GR's set on snap focus mostly.
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Old 11-05-2015   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
...Something where I can directly control the aperture and shutter speed and preferably see them both without looking at a screen would make me most comfortable.
Rethinking about it ...Fuji XT-1 is the nearest to you needs or desires...
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Old 11-05-2015   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
Whatever is closest to a fully manual camera is probably best as I've been shooting film and digital Ms for many years along with a film and digital GR's set on snap focus mostly.
Sounds like Fuji xt1, xt10 or xe2 to me. Like all mirrorless cameras, they can use your Leica rf lenses w/ adapter. Mainly pseudo slr or rf look.. Otherwise the Panasonic lx100 which like the Fuji gives u full manual control. It has a 24-75 f1.7-2.8 fov fixed zoom on a 12mp sensor.. Vs the versatility of the Fuji interchangeable setup and 16mp sensor.

Both provide old school aperture ring, shutter dial and exposure composition.

Gary

Ps. Of the Fuji cameras only xt1 is weather resistant. In the omd, the em1 and em5..don't remember about the em10 though. Fuji has a complete line of weather resistant lenses (look for wr designation on lens). M43 I'm not sure which lenses outside of the kit zoom that came with em5mk1.
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Old 11-05-2015   #20
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If it were me, it would come down to either Fuji (not sure which) or m4/3 (not sure which). I have an Oly m4/3 body and I use it primarily for long lens stuff. The images are quite good and mine is not the latest model, by a long shot. The OM-D images I've seen from a friend are stunning. But, so are the images from another friend's Fuji XE-1 (graciously let me borrow). So that's not much help.

More lenses available for the m4/3 system than Fuji. A particular lens may make your choice for you. There is Olympus 300/2.8 (600/2.8 equiv.) that seems good for safari Not a small lens, but a lot smaller than any SLR version. A lot. m4/3 seems to have more "fast" (e.g., f/0.95 to 1.4) lenses. I'm not sure how many are available (currently) for Fuji.

I guess I lean toward the OM-D. I do hate the menu labyrinth.
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Old 11-05-2015   #21
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As it won't be my primary camera, it might well come down to price. A D3300 or E-M5 kit is about half the price of an XT1 body currently.
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Old 11-05-2015   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
As it won't be my primary camera, it might well come down to price. A D3300 or E-M5 kit is about half the price of an XT1 body currently.

Since it won't be your primary I would recomend a Fuji XE2.
The Fuji 18-55 and 55-200 are fantastic Stabalized lenses. The XF f1.4/35mm is a unique gem that will remind you of a summilux 50mm.
The fuji's make great primary digital cameras and are excellent low cost back ups for primary film/RF shooters.
The XT1 is not required to enjoy fuji. I use first generation XE1 bodies and still absolutely enjoy and value them next to my film kit. IQ is perfect.
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Old 11-05-2015   #23
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For hiking I use the Fuji XT1 with the 18-135, giving me a weather resistant system with 28-200mm reach with a weight of just under a kilo.
Very nice .JPG's, a bit better than the allready good .JPG's of Oly.
I carry it in a Lowepro Toploader across my chest, nicely counter balancing my backpack.
This way I have my hands free, the camera is protected but ready to shoot in just a second or two.
The lens is rather big though and sometimes I bring the 28/f2 or the 35mm f1.4 along for size / weight and/or low light situations like photos in a restaurant.

The photo below shows this setup;
My wife and me whilst hiking the West-Highland way from Glasgow to Fort William, earlier this year:

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Old 11-05-2015   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
I wonder what the real world differences are in size and ease of use between a small DSLR like the Nikon and an M 4/3 like the Olympus
http://camerasize.com/compare/#509,289

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
As it won't be my primary camera, it might well come down to price. A D3300 or E-M5 kit is about half the price of an XT1 body currently.
Exactly.
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Old 11-05-2015   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranZ View Post
For hiking I use the Fuji XT1 with the 18-135, giving me a weather resistant system with 28-200mm reach with a weight of just under a kilo.
Very nice .JPG's, a bit better than the allready good .JPG's of Oly.
I carry it in a Lowepro Toploader across my chest, nicely counter balancing my backpack.
This way I have my hands free, the camera is protected but ready to shoot in just a second or two.
The lens is rather big though and sometimes I bring the 28/f2 or the 35mm f1.4 along for size / weight and/or low light situations like photos in a restaurant.

The photo below shows this setup;
My wife and me whilst hiking the West-Highland way from Glasgow to Fort William, earlier this year:

Off topic but Frans isn't the West Highland Way fun? I did it in 2013 with my Hasselblad, 2 film backs and my 80mm. Here's a shot from Inversnaid.



Regarding small cameras for hikes with big zooms, I've seen some great things from Olympus' new OM-D line. Definitely worth a look if you don't own any DSLR glass at the moment.
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Old 11-05-2015   #26
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The Fuji X series is probably the closest it gets in terms of user experience. The X-Pro1 is being heavily discounted in anticipation of the X-Pro2 release.

If you want utterly compact, have a look at the Sony RX100 series or the new Canon G9X. There is also the Panasonic LX100 as a half-way solution (available in Leica red-dot version, the D-LUX).
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Old 11-05-2015   #27
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Decide on your lens needs are and work backwards from there:

E.g. Safari and want 300mm plus - consider Nikon Afs300f4 VR (as smallest dslr lens with those specs). Need good AF? D7xxx series, not so worried about AF D3xxx series
Nikon too big? Panasonic 100-300mm on m43. AF important (e.g. Moving animals) Omd EM1. AF not so much? Omd EM10mk2

Not sure where to start? Head to http://www.cameralabs.com/ and also www.camerasize.com as mentioned and try the camera plus lens option.
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Old 11-05-2015   #28
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Looks like lots of good options being suggested. I've been very happy with my em-1 with 12-40mm lens; I also usually carry it with old 50 mm macro and 40-150 kit lens from my old E-500, swap out the long zoom for a 50-200 mm zoom if weight isn't an issue. Either set up fits nicely into a Lowepro event messenger 150 along with charger and cord, batteries, etc. Very light, compact and capable set up. The camera is very fast handling, and there's no need to deal much with menus (kind of like Photoshop, most of us use ony few of the cameras capabilities on a regular basis). I like to shoot aperture priority with focus-peaking activated and can vary things like aperture (and therefore shutter speed) and exposure compensation without taking my eye from the finder. One of these days I might invest in one of the smaller micro-four-thirds zooms to shrink my travel set up a little more.

Anyway, lots of good options, great time to be a photographer.
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