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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Rumor: "Voigtlander is considering to start a new line of digital cameras"
Old 10-08-2015   #1
jsrockit
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Rumor: "Voigtlander is considering to start a new line of digital cameras"

From photorumors.com:

http://photorumors.com/2015/10/08/vo...gital-cameras/
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Old 10-08-2015   #2
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I really can't see how Voigtlander could fit into the digital marketplace, beyond making lenses. With the film rangefinders, they rode a 10 year window in a very small niche. I would think the best they could do in digital would be to rebrand someone else's digital camera...which would lead nowhere. They certainly aren't going to offer a digital camera with an optical rangefinder.
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Old 10-08-2015   #3
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And an announcement tomorrow (of course could be unrelated)?

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/voig...ment-tomorrow/
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Old 10-08-2015   #4
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WHAT Voigtländer? The company itself has been gone for 50 years, and so have all successors that took over (Zeiss Ikon, Rollei, the Mandler imperium). Today, it is a empty trademark owned by the largest cooperative of independent German camera dealers (Ringfoto) who have frequently used it within Germany as their house brand, mostly for cheap point-and-shoots, digital picture frames and the like, and have leased its use for higher-end gear to Cosina. If it is not a Cosina Voigtländer, a new digital "Voigtländer" would simply be yet another sub 100€ point and shoot.
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Old 10-08-2015   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
WHAT Voigtländer? The company itself has been gone for 50 years, and so have all successors that took over (Zeiss Ikon, Rollei, the Mandler imperium). Today, it is a empty trademark owned by the largest cooperative of independent German camera dealers (Ringfoto) who have frequently used it within Germany as their house brand, mostly for cheap point-and-shoots, digital picture frames and the like, and have leased its use for higher-end gear to Cosina.
Relax... around these parts, we consider Cosina to be Voigtlander at this point.
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Old 10-08-2015   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
WHAT Voigtländer? The company itself has been gone for 50 years, and so have all successors that took over (Zeiss Ikon, Rollei, the Mandler imperium). Today, it is a empty trademark owned by the largest cooperative of independent German camera dealers (Ringfoto) who have frequently used it within Germany as their house brand, mostly for cheap point-and-shoots, digital picture frames and the like, and have leased its use for higher-end gear to Cosina.
That is a very good point. Does the rumour refer then to Cosina making a DRF, or to someone else with the Voigtländer name on it? If it would use a ZI or RxM rangefinder I would take it seriously, whereas I'm not so sure otherwise.

PS: I find it somewhat amusing that the eBay automatic translator, which I can not figure out how to turn off, calls this brand "voigt pays". Note that I use ebay.fr. On an anglophone version of the site do you get "voigt countries"?
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Old 10-08-2015   #7
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this can hopefully be very good news, and would almost certainly involve some kind of digi rangefinder. as the rumor itslf points out, CV was involved in joining with epson to put out the rd1--still my 'go to'! and it would be the perfect vehicle on which to put their lenses! yup, could be really good news.
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Old 10-08-2015   #8
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R-D2 is coming ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
And an announcement tomorrow (of course could be unrelated)?

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/voig...ment-tomorrow/
If not the R-D2, FE lenses would be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
WHAT Voigtländer? The company itself has been gone for 50 years, and so have all successors that took over (Zeiss Ikon, Rollei, the Mandler imperium). Today, it is a empty trademark owned by the largest cooperative of independent German camera dealers (Ringfoto) who have frequently used it within Germany as their house brand, mostly for cheap point-and-shoots, digital picture frames and the like, and have leased its use for higher-end gear to Cosina. If it is not a Cosina Voigtländer, a new digital "Voigtländer" would simply be yet another sub 100€ point and shoot.
Point & shot market is almost dead. No company would get into that now.
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Old 10-08-2015   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Relax... around these parts, we consider Cosina to be Voigtlander at this point.
We indeed do, however the article from Photorumors does not, some of the digital cameras they reference are not from Cosina.

The Cosina RF products did perhaps need a distinct brand, but new Asian brand names now stand on their own. Even impossible names like Xiaomi and Huawei are now considered hip. It might be time for Cosina to emerge from behind the curtain?
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Old 10-08-2015   #10
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We can all only hope for a DRF. Doubt it though. It's probably new lens lines.

Mabye though. Think of that Bessa production line all set up and not producing anything.
Modify it for one quick blast of RD1's with later sensors and procecessors. It could be another cult classic.

Someone here knows and they aren't telling

(it's not me)
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Old 10-08-2015   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olakiril View Post
Point & shot market is almost dead. No company would get into that now.
It is not a company, but a dealers association, and they don't make things, they merely put their house brand on them. There still are market segments where there are buyers for bottom end point-and-shoots, for example those too old to own a mobile, let alone a smart phone...
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Old 10-08-2015   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
We can all only hope for a DRF. Doubt it though. It's probably new lens lines.

Mabye though. Think of that Bessa production line all set up and not producing anything.
Modify it for one quick blast of RD1's with later sensors and procecessors. It could be another cult classic.

Someone here knows and they aren't telling

(it's not me)
I can think of at least two that know and are not telling hehe.
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Old 10-08-2015   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
We indeed do, however the article from Photorumors does not, some of the digital cameras they reference are not from Cosina.
Oh, I get that. I was just saying that when we speak of Voigtlander here, it would not be the low end P&S / photo frame Voigtlander. However, as far as the rumor goes, we don't know which one we will get.
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Old 10-08-2015   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeiflex View Post
PS: I find it somewhat amusing that the eBay automatic translator, which I can not figure out how to turn off, calls this brand "voigt pays"
What do you mean? -> http://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_from=...4nder&_sacat=0
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Old 10-08-2015   #15
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What does Stephen say about this rumor?
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Old 10-08-2015   #16
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What does Stephen say about this rumor?
He ain't
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Old 10-08-2015   #17
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panoramic camera system...*fingers crossed*
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Old 10-08-2015   #18
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R-D2 is coming ? ......
I'm holding out for R2-D2.......

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Old 10-08-2015   #19
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A relatively inexpensive digital M would be welcome. I'm not going to be snotty about who makes it; I just want someone to make it.
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Old 10-08-2015   #20
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A new SWC-like digital super wide CV camera.
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Old 10-08-2015   #21
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Imagine someone offering a simple digital that works just like a classic film camera?
It's not likely any manufacturer will ever do it, but Cosina is the best candidate...

Chris
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Old 10-08-2015   #23
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How has Sony dropped the ball in performance with glass they don't manufacture?!
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Old 10-08-2015   #24
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Quote:
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Imagine someone offering a simple digital that works just like a classic film camera?
It's not likely any manufacturer will ever do it, but Cosina is the best candidate...

Chris
They just have to repeat what they have done already with Epson. This time with better sensor and up to date processor, data bus etc.
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Old 10-08-2015   #25
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Quote:
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A new SWC-like digital super wide CV camera.
Is that on your wish list, Raid? I could go for that. Let's add a digital XPAN while we are at it!
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Old 10-08-2015   #26
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How has Sony dropped the ball in performance with glass they don't manufacture?!
Because they have used the concept of "open mount" since the introduction as cover for the lack of glass, and yet designed the camera the opposite.

That is just misleading, and was a stupid move, totally unnecessary and it's hamstrung the system terribly, though with all the hype you would never know it LOL

Below 25mm they are still well behind the D810 performance, and they have to make huge lenses for their thick cover glass to work right. They basically added a whole element on the top of the sensor.

This coming from someone who's shoots an A7 almost every day.
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Old 10-08-2015   #27
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Yes Please. R-D2 or whatever. Just give me that 24mp song sensor, manual focus M mount, and a robust magnesium body with all manual controls. DONE.
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Old 10-08-2015   #28
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After being a monthly topic here on RFF for about a decade, it's finally reaching something concrete...which is absolutely welcomed.

As always, it has to be "reasonably priced" (according to the lengthy discussions we had here) to appeal!
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Old 10-08-2015   #29
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Quote:
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Yes Please. R-D2 or whatever. Just give me that 24mp song sensor, manual focus M mount, and a robust magnesium body with all manual controls. DONE.
Perfect. Cosina has the lens line, the body-building expertise, a good optical viewfinder system. They just need to team up with a sensor builder, and they'd be... well... building a pretty good rumor-mill.
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Old 10-08-2015   #30
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After being a monthly topic here on RFF for about a decade, it's finally reaching something concrete...which is absolutely welcomed.

As always, it has to be "reasonably priced" (according to the lengthy discussions we had here) to appeal!
Until now, Cosina has been great at creating gear that meets the "reasonably priced" criteria, so there's hope.
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Old 10-08-2015   #31
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Because they have used the concept of "open mount" since the introduction as cover for the lack of glass, and yet designed the camera the opposite.

That is just misleading, and was a stupid move, totally unnecessary and it's hamstrung the system terribly, though with all the hype you would never know it LOL
Well, it is an open mount, and my personal feeling is that the statement was aimed at Nikon / Canon users, to get them potentially interested. The fact that it doesn't work perfectly with every lens ever is simply impossible.

I wonder what the ratio of users shooting Leica (or Voigtlander) glass to any of the typical SLR lenses out there is. I would guess 1:10 but who knows.

I'm not really "in" to Sony's cameras anyway, and furthermore on my M9 I am using mostly Nikkor and Voigtlander glass (only two Leitz lenses, a 50mm Elmar and a 50mm Summitar).
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Old 10-08-2015   #32
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Well, it is an open mount, and my personal feeling is that the statement was aimed at Nikon / Canon users, to get them potentially interested. The fact that it doesn't work perfectly with every lens ever is simply impossible.
Nonsense, sorry. Aside from AF performance the choice of a thin sensor cover like the M240, and the top of the line DSLRs have would have assured excellent performance with a very wide variety of glass.

Maybe I should thank them, because their cynical choices pushed me to get an M9 also

I had kolari strip my A7 sensor cover, and now the camera is an excellent second body to the M9 with capabilities the M9 lacks, like the use of very long lenses and macro. It shoots ZM18 SEM 21 etc very well now.

M9 is my favorite though

I hope Cosina delivers where sony could not be bothered.
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Old 10-08-2015   #33
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Aside from AF performance
And there's the problem.

I would bet 90% of Sony A7(x) users would prefer that over better compatibility with rangefinder glass!

Sony doesn't cater to this [small] market.
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Old 10-08-2015   #34
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Below 25mm they are still well behind the D810 performance,
All my SLR ultrawides are about as good (or bad) on a A7 as on a D810. Biogon style short rear exit point lenses have horribly degraded corners - but then, we can't even mount them to the D810, so they fail even worse there...

The Kolari mod shows that Sony could have done better, in optical terms. But as long as we don't have enough practical experience to know how Kolari modded cameras fare in cleaning and regarding sensor oxidation, we can't tell whether Sony would really have done themselves a service by putting on a ultra-thin cover glass. Leica have demonstrated on the M9 that you can run into trouble with RF lens friendly cover glass, and Sony may not be keen to replicate that.
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Old 10-08-2015   #35
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I wonder what the ratio of users shooting Leica (or Voigtlander) glass to any of the typical SLR lenses out there is. I would guess 1:10 but who knows.
Going by the questions asked on dpreview, it appears that A7 owners are not that special any more, and are approaching average DSLR usage patterns. That is, the large majority ONLY shoot native zooms. Some shoot one or more extra native primes or fret over what adapter to use with which Canon AF glass. Even fewer use adapted manual focus lenses, and few among these use adapted RF lenses. Compared to the total A7 series ownership, we might be talking 1:100 or even 1:1000...
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Old 10-09-2015   #36
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As unlikely as it is, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for an R-D2 as well.
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Old 10-09-2015   #37
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10 years after the rf renaissance, Fullframe bessa rangefinder and MF Bessa III digital? also a twin mF cam by fuji?
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Old 10-09-2015   #38
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R-D2 please! Obviously 135 or APS-H would be nice, but even APS-C with a modern sensor in a Bessa body would make a fantastic camera for this niche
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Old 10-09-2015   #39
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Yes Please. R-D2 or whatever. Just give me that 24mp song sensor, manual focus M mount, and a robust magnesium body with all manual controls. DONE.
Yup - got it in one...
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Old 10-09-2015   #40
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Yes Please. R-D2 or whatever. Just give me that 24mp song sensor, manual focus M mount, and a robust magnesium body with all manual controls. DONE.
You mean an M240 but cheaper ?

It's just a couple of new E-mount lenses, and a 10mm in VM:



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