Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Classic Film RangeFinders & Other Classics > Nikon RF

Nikon RF This forum is dedicated to Nikon Rangefinders: the Nikon One, Nikon M, Nikon S, Nikon S2, Nikon SP, Nikon S3, Nikon S4, and Nikon S3M, Nikon S3 2000, Nikon SP 2005. Plus the ONLY production camera ever made in Nikon Rangefinder mount WITH TTL metering ... the Voigtlander Bessa R2S.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Nikon S2 slow speed escapement not working
Old 05-25-2015   #1
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Nikon S2 slow speed escapement not working

I have a Nikon S2 that is firing correctly (to my ear) from 1/50 through to 1/1000 and *was* firing intermittently at the slower speeds until I removed, cleaned, and reinstalled the slow speed escapement. Now the T,B, and 1 second through to 1/30 settings are all firing like the camera is set to B. Have I messed something up when putting the slow speed escapement back in? It seems like I just need to re-cock or re-spring a part somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

In the first photo below, I know that the pin on the underside of the slow speed escapement slots into the fork connected to the shutter release (marked 1.) and the tab at the back of the slow speed escapement goes behind the fork above the slow speed escapement (marked 2.) but I'm not sure about the positioning of the gear marked 3.? Also, is there something I need to re-cock or set under the shutter speed dials?

Its been a while since I tried fixing a camera and I'm a bit rusty. Any help appreciated!



__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #2
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
Open up another S2 just to study the positioning of the gear.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #3
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
I would have already done so if I had another S2 on hand, but unfortunately I don't.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #4
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
I would have already done so if I had another S2 on hand, but unfortunately I don't.
FWIW I remember a friend telling about how he installed a slow speed governor from a Nikon F2 into a Nikon S and was surprised that it fitted and worked without any modifications. That leads me to think that removing, cleaning, and reinstalling a slow speed governor from a Nikon S2 should be pretty much the same as on a Nikon F and F2, and it's no doubt a lot easier to find information on how to do the work on an F or F2 than an S2.

A quote from yourself from last year.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #5
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
FWIW I remember a friend telling about how he installed a slow speed governor from a Nikon F2 into a Nikon S and was surprised that it fitted and worked without any modifications. That leads me to think that removing, cleaning, and reinstalling a slow speed governor from a Nikon S2 should be pretty much the same as on a Nikon F and F2, and it's no doubt a lot easier to find information on how to do the work on an F or F2 than an S2.

A quote from yourself from last year.

Erik.
Yes I remember the quote.

I have a repair book that covers the S, SP, F, and F2, but none of these cameras appear to have gear 3. indicated in the first photo above and it also seems like I've unintentionally disconnected something, so I'm still stuck.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #6
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
I have the official S2 service manual from 1955. I will look up the relevant parts.

A little patience please.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #7
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320












Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #8
goliathus
Registered User
 
goliathus's Avatar
 
goliathus is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Seoul Korea
Posts: 179
Jon, I just remembered that one of my Nikon Rangefinder mook book has a S2 repair manual in its section. Please understand, I can't read Japanese, so not sure this will help you. But luckily I found some close up photos of the same part that you shared on above. Cheers!














__________________
A serious Nikon rangefinder user.


Nikon SP 2005, Nikon S3 2000
CV SC 21mm/4, CV SC 28mm/3.5
W-Nikkor C 2.5cm/4, W-Nikkor C 3.5cm/1.8 reissue
Nikkor S 50mm/1.4 reissue, Nikkor-P.C 8.5cm/2



Gallery for Nikon Rangefinder
My Blog for Nikon Rangefinder
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #9
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,439
From my experience with an S3 slow speeds escapement with which I was in the same kind of trouble, it all depends on how the whole slow speeds geartrain unit is positioned. Move it forth and back while freeing it by unscrewing the 464 screws a little bit until it works well, then secure the 464 screws again.

EDIT : this matches the (4) in the repair manual provided by Erik...

__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #10
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Erik and Park, thanks! That's a big help.

Nicolas, I didn't have any luck with changing the position where the slow speed escapement is screwed down, so I'll have to delve a little deeper when I have another crack at it tonight!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-25-2015   #11
bence8810
Registered User
 
bence8810's Avatar
 
bence8810 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 36
Posts: 742
Jon - you didn't allow much shelf-time to that Nikon - got right to it!

Good luck,
Ben
__________________
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2015   #12
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Erik and Park, thanks! That's a big help.

Nicolas, I didn't have any luck with changing the position where the slow speed escapement is screwed down, so I'll have to delve a little deeper when I have another crack at it tonight!
Sometimes the trick is to remove the escapement unit again, then to make it work a little bit with your fingers, then to reinstall it...

Some of them may need more than a simple cleaning and relube if there is much corrosion on their gears. Did you try to have it soak in an ultrasonic tube so that it works super even before being re-lubed ?
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #13
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by bence8810 View Post
Jon - you didn't allow much shelf-time to that Nikon - got right to it!

Good luck,
Ben
Yep, no messing about!
Thanks Ben!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #14
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Here's an update:

I’ve just realised that the slow shutter speeds all work when I set the upper shutter speed dial to a little bit off the 1/30 speed setting in the direction of the X setting.

But if I set the upper shutter speed dial to the actual 1/30 notch, regardless of the lower shutter speed dial setting, the shutter fires like it is set to B.

Hmmm well at least I’ve narrowed down the problem.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #15
dave lackey
Registered User
 
dave lackey's Avatar
 
dave lackey is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 8,086
Jon, good luck on solving the problem. You are both way more gifted and braver than me!
__________________
Peace, Love and Happiness...



Dave
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #16
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,969
Jon,
I know next to nothing about the Nikon rangefinders (I've decided I want a Contax, personally). But I do have a decent library of service and repair books and I've noticed that in some of your photos the top cover is off the body. I've checked the Tomosy books for you. One of them has an article about the Nikon S. Is that close enough to the S2? I have no idea.

From the paragraph about the shutter, I quote:
"Be aware that the shutter doesn't work properly with the top cover off due to the fact that the slow-speed setting lever defaults to "T". With the top on, if the slow shutter speeds don't engage, the slow-speed eccentric or the setting lever may be out of position."
Now, T and B are of course, different settings, but not so different. I reckon it's worth a shot. Let me know how you get on, maybe it's the problem?
Cheers,
Brett
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #17
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
Maybe this helps:



Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #18
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Thanks Brett. I don't think the S2 and S are the same in that regard though. Under the top they're quite different cameras.
Edit: I just put the top plate back on and tested the shutter speeds, and no change unfortunately. The camera behaves the same with the top plate on or off.

Thanks again Erik. You actually posted those instructions in your earlier post, and I have tried positioning the slow speed escapement in slightly different positions to no avail. The lower shutter speed dial does work properly at all positions including T when the upper shutter speed dial is set as follows, so I don't think my problem can be fixed by adjusting as described in (5) and (6) in those instructions.



But when the upper shutter speed dial is set as follows, all speeds on the lower shutter speed dial act like they're set to B.


So perhaps I need to reset the B setting... have you got the instructions in your user manual to reset the B setting, Erik?
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #19
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
FWIW here's the spot in the camera where the slow speed escapement goes:


And here's the slow speed escapement after several rounds of cleaning:
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #20
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
After a bit more messing around, I've concluded that the shutter speeds on the lower shutter speed dial (1 to 1/30) are actually working fine and my problem is caused by the cam on the underside of the upper shutter speed dial not being in the correct position at 1/30 to activate the lower shutter speed dial. Instead the camera thinks its set to B. So it appears I need to adjust the position of the cam on the underside of the upper shutter speed dial in relation to the actual upper shutter speed dial. I have no idea how to adjust this though...

Edit: this wasn't the problem after all
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #21
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,439
The upper shutter speed dial is hold by three set screws not being positioned at 120. Are you sure you haven't, after you took the top cover off, reinstalled the upper shutter speed dial a bit wrong, so that the 1-30 marking actually matches the B setting ?

How does the dial look when set on 1000 ?
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #22
photomoof
Fischli & Weiss Sculpture
 
photomoof's Avatar
 
photomoof is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 786
It has to be something other than the escapement, I have never had to fuss with them much if they function smoothly outside of the body.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #23
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
The upper shutter speed dial is hold by three set screws not being positioned at 120. Are you sure you haven't, after you took the top cover off, reinstalled the upper shutter speed dial a bit wrong, so that the 1-30 marking actually matches the B setting ?

How does the dial look when set on 1000 ?
The upper shutter speed dial is held on by a single grub screw which holds it in place. To remove the dial, you loosen the grub screw and then screw the dial off anticlockwise.

The notches of the upper shutter speed dial all match correctly. The 1/1000 position is also slightly raised as it should be. So the top side of the upper shutter speed dial seems to be correct. It appears that whatever needs adjusting is on the underside of the dial. I can see a cam rotating on the underside when I rotate the dial but cannot see how to adjust its position.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #24
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,439
Sorry about the set screws - that's now five years since I opened up my last S2 and I don't have mine with me at this moment.

Looks like the parts 440, 441, 435 and 406 positions have to be adjusted relatively to each other.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-28-2015   #25
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
I hope this really helps:











Good luck, Jon.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-29-2015   #26
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Thanks again Erik! Unfortunately I still haven't solved my problem, though.

Is there anything in your S2 maintenance manual about setting the top shutter dial/bottom shutter dial linkage position (position where both dials are set to 1/30)?
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-29-2015   #27
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
There are only instructions for replacing the curtains and to repair problems with the synchronisation left.

I do not see any instructions for a linkage position of the speed dials.

When you want, I can copy the whole book for you and e-mail it. Just PM me if you like that.

Good luck,

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-29-2015   #28
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
That would be great, Erik. Sending you a PM now.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-29-2015   #29
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,969
Jon,
I took a quick look at the archives for the old classic camera repair forum for any hits for the Nikon S2. Here's a link to a thread about someone else who had the same problem you've got. Don't get too excited because there is no fix mentioned, however I thought the description of the problem and how the speeds could be induced to run a little with the shutter release might be worth noting, in the even it is a clue that helps you put the pieces of your puzzle together. FYI anyway. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/clas...tml?1233720939
Cheers
Brett
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-2015   #30
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
After several more hours of head scratching and trying different things, the S2 is now firing correctly at all shutter speeds !!!

The problem ended up being some grime on the spring surface indicated in the photo below. The grime prevented the indicated cam from sliding along the spring surface freely when the shutter was fired. Instead, the cam would lock in position and only slide along the spring surface after releasing your finger from the shutter release button, thus the camera behaved like it was set to B. After cleaning the side surface of the spring (a job that took all of two seconds) the camera instantly started firing correctly.



Now its time to test with film!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-2015   #31
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
Congratulations with the repair! What a little bit of dirt can do.

Nice camera, the black return button looks a bit odd to me. Is this normal for late S2's?

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-2015   #32
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Thanks! And well spotted, Erik. A chrome black dial S2 should indeed have a chrome rewind knob. Only a black paint black dial S2 would have a black rewind knob like this one. The rewind knob on this camera is actually an unused looking replacement part (possibly an F part?).
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-2015   #33
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,969
Congratulations, and by documenting the fix you've helped the next person who needs to sort the issue out too.
Cheers,
Brett
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-2015   #34
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post



It is interesting to compare the reality with the repair manual. I see quite some differences, probably due to the fact that the camera is a late one, towards the end of the production, and the manual is early.
For instance, in the photograph I see a rod overlapping the cam that is completely absent in the manual.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-30-2015   #35
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,439
Ha ! I should have thought of this. This is a common fix on all classic Nikons from the S2 to the F...

I now remember that I solved the same problem the same way on my black Nikon F. That was 12 years ago so it seems that I have lost some of my abilities to remember everything !

Congratulations Jon !



BTW I like the "panda" look of that S2 "black dial", thanks to the black rewind knob.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-12-2015   #36
jamesliaopiop
Registered User
 
jamesliaopiop is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Jon

what kind of tools do you open the top cover?
I can't remove the time dial and shutter release button.

thanks!
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-12-2015   #37
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
No special tools are required.

To remove the shutter speed dials...
1. Pull up the top dial, rotate it until you see the small screw underneath, and then slightly loosen that screw with a 1 mm screwdriver (see photo below).
2. Sit the top dial back down, and then unscrew the actual top dial anti-clockwise with your fingers.
3. Use a slightly larger screwdriver (1.6mm or 2mm?) to remove the larger screw on the lower dial.


To remove the A-R dial...
1. Rotate the A-R dial until you can see the small screw through the hole, then loosen the screw with a 1mm screwdriver (first photo below).
2. Then loosen and remove the locknut on the inside of the A-R ring (second photo below). I use a filed down pinset for this.



Good luck!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-12-2015   #38
jamesliaopiop
Registered User
 
jamesliaopiop is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Thanks Jon. I will try it again!
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-13-2015   #39
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesliaopiop View Post
Thanks Jon. I will try it again!
How'd you go? Did you manage to remove the top plate?
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-14-2015   #40
jamesliaopiop
Registered User
 
jamesliaopiop is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11
Jon,
Thanks!
Yes, I finally removed the top plate successful!

I'm also have problem in slow speed shutter after clean the slow speed gear train my slow speed still not work properly.
So I open the top plate to check the slow speed setting lever.



I found the “2” will move by speed setting dial and the gear will push the “1” to change slow speed.
My S2’s problem is the “2” seems to tight and can’t restore to proper position.

Do you have any suggestion for fixing this part?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:30.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.