A Chat with Leica AG CEO about the M9 Sensor
Old 01-05-2015   #1
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A Chat with Leica AG CEO about the M9 Sensor

I just completed a chat with Mr. Alfred Schopf, the CEO of Leica AG. We had a friendly chat (in German), which was concluded with him inviting me to email him any time I had questions, after which we then could chat on the phone about it. I must say that he is a very nice man, and he pays attention to the comments/complaints that Leica users have been making.

We talked about several issues, but I recall the following highlights:
1. Leica is working on finding/developing a new glass cover for the CCD sensor. Mr. Schopf told me that they worked throughout December on this issue, and he knows that Leica cannot spend "four years on it" since by then it would be outdated. He talked about the problems of how to glue the glass on the sensor, and he mentioned the edges of the sensor and how to make them weather proof.

2. He affirmed Leica's customer service offer to replace free of charge the defective sensor. I asked him whether Leica would include second hand bought cameras, and he said "of course, it does."

3. He told me that when a Leica camera is sent in for repair, Leica offers rental cameras until the camera gets repaired.

4. He told me that they really don't know much about what goes into the Leica batteries and the generic batteries, but he does not believe that generic batteries can harm the Leica cameras.

5. I have to add this point" he thinks that my German is flawless!

I will try to recall other smaller issues that he may have mentioned. I hope that this summary is useful to you. After talking with Mr. Schopf, I feel happy to be a Leica owner and user.
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Old 01-05-2015   #2
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Wow, going straight to the top with your concerns!

I wonder if Stephen Harper will take my call?
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Old 01-05-2015   #3
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Who is Stephen Harper?
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Old 01-05-2015   #4
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So, the man isn't distant and unreachable in his corporate ivory tower... Good for him! And good for you, for becoming the voice that alerts him of the concerns of his constituents (we're not customers!). Keep us posted!
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Old 01-05-2015   #5
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Francisco,
We had laughs during the phone chat, and I think he is a cool guy.
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Old 01-05-2015   #6
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I'm most impressed with your command of German : )
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Old 01-05-2015   #7
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Raid, I am impressed that he responded and even more impressed with your German. Thanks for voicing the concerns. Cheers.
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Old 01-05-2015   #8
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Raid, I know that this was extra work on top of your additional responsibilities. Thank you very much for doing this. It is appreciated, along with your flawless German.
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Old 01-05-2015   #9
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It was a pleasure for me to chat with the Leica CEO. I missed his call to me this morning, so I called him on his cell number. I talked with two (female) employees before I was switched to him. His first question to me was whether "Raid" was my first name or my family name. Then he switched (politely) from Herr Raid to Herr Amin
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Old 01-05-2015   #10
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I looked up the meaning of the name Raid. It means "leader". Very fitting.
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Old 01-05-2015   #11
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Who is Stephen Harper?

Prime Minister of Canada. Don't think he can help you with your Leica
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Old 01-05-2015   #12
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Some years ago, I contacted the CEO of Leica USA for an entirely different matter (to commend a Leica representative who was very helpful with a problem I had with one of my M6TTL bodies). He replied, and he was very polite, yet approachable. I never spoke with the man, though... again, different circumstances, same behavior. Maybe it's in the corporate culture of Leica.

Again, Raid, thanks for your report and keep us posted!
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Old 01-05-2015   #13
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3. He told me that when a Leica camera is sent in for repair, Leica offers rental cameras until the camera gets repaired.
Not in the USA. At least the option was never offered to me when I asked.
Also I could not imagine how much a 4 month rental (the time it took to get my camera repaired) would have cost.

p.s. nice work Raid.
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Old 01-05-2015   #14
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Bravo Raid,
Thanks for taking the time to be a voice for all of us.
Its very much appreciated.

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Old 01-05-2015   #15
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I looked up the meaning of the name Raid. It means "leader". Very fitting.
Thanks! I am currently working with a physician whose last name is Leader. I told him what my first name meant!
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Old 01-05-2015   #16
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Prime Minister of Canada. Don't think he can help you with your Leica
he he he I should have known who he is.
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Old 01-05-2015   #17
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Some years ago, I contacted the CEO of Leica USA for an entirely different matter (to commend a Leica representative who was very helpful with a problem I had with one of my M6TTL bodies). He replied, and he was very polite, yet approachable. I never spoke with the man, though... again, different circumstances, same behavior. Maybe it's in the corporate culture of Leica.

Again, Raid, thanks for your report and keep us posted!
No problem. I sometimes take risks, but there would have been no harm if he had not replied to my initial email to him.
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Old 01-05-2015   #18
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Not in the USA. At least the option was never offered to me when I asked.
Also I could not imagine how much a 4 month rental (the time it took to get my camera repaired) would have cost.

p.s. nice work Raid.
He must have meant Leica in Germany. Try asking for a loaner from NJ and copy Leica AG in Germany.
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Old 01-05-2015   #19
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Bravo Raid,
Thanks for taking the time to be a voice for all of us.
Its very much appreciated.

Kwesi
No problem. I have several Leica cameras, so I spoke for myself too.
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Old 01-05-2015   #20
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Mr. Schopf told me that after he became CEO of Leica, he started using RF Leica cameras. It took him some time to get used to RF focusing, but now he would never leave RF cameras. he repeated twice or three times the Leica offer to replace for free the damaged sensors, and I acknowledged to him that this is appreciated. He acknowledged the fact that some users see something special in the M9 and its sensor, and that is why Leica is working very hard to find a technical solution to the sensor issue.
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Old 01-05-2015   #21
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Wow Raid, that's great! Even if I'm not involved in the sensor problem I find interesting the output of your conversation, Thanks
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Old 01-05-2015   #22
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I mentioned to him that not everybody lives in a large city where there is a Leica Boutique, and what can Leica users do after they send out a camera for repair to Germany to get a loaner/rent Leica. He told me that Leica has in place a system by which people get a rental unit. I wonder why we see people experience otherwise. Maybe this point needs to be further looked into. In your case, I would ask Leica (Germany) for a rental unit, Robert. Mention what Mr. Schopf has told me ... etc. I mentioned to him ... such as a Leica user from Italy ...
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Old 01-05-2015   #23
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Good for you for taking the initiative to communicate, and good that Herr Schopf was open and willing to have the conversation.

I didn't find anything in your report of the conversation that wasn't already known via more standard channels, but it's always nice to have the CEO affirm the official press. Promotes confidence in the brand, and all that. And it's good to know that the upper management at Leica are indeed normal people who are capable of being accessible and humane.

Happy New Year!

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Old 01-05-2015   #24
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I did not know that Leica is actively developing a replacement glass cover for the CDC sensor, and that they were working on it throughout the Christmas season, Godfrey.
I also had no clue that the CEO is using a RF Leica.
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Old 01-05-2015   #25
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Thanks for your persistence and time, Raid. And thanks to Herr Schopf for taking time to talk with you as well.

OT: One of our members was vilified for reporting that the sensor glass problem was likely related in some way to an adhesive issue. I hope he takes some solace in Herr Schopf's remarks pertaining to same.
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Old 01-05-2015   #26
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Mike, it did not take much persistence from me. It was one email and one phone call.
Yes, he said they were studying the adhesive issue, with emphasis on the corners.
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Old 01-05-2015   #27
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kudos to getting the scoop.

<tech journalists are now gnashing their teeth.>
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Old 01-05-2015   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I did not know that Leica is actively developing a replacement glass cover for the CDC sensor, and that they were working on it throughout the Christmas season, Godfrey.
I also had no clue that the CEO is using a RF Leica.
Raid,

The fact that they were working on a permanent solution to the CCD sensor cover glass problem was listed in their last official press release about the problem as I recall it, the same one that said they would be doing the fixes as they came up free of charge.

I didn't need to be told that they were working on the cover glass through the holidays—it's such a basic issue that I feel comfortable assuming that they are expending whatever resources are needed to get it taken care of ASAP. Leica is still selling a substantial number of CCD-based M cameras in the M-E and M Monochrom models, and have a large body of M9/M9-P users in the field. It would only make good business sense to put this issue to rest as soon as possible.

That the CEO is a Leica RF user is a nice sidebar and makes Herr Schopf more a part of the cameraderie, but it isn't actually relevant to anything business-wise as far as I'm concerned. I did know that, however, through other sources (another friend of mine has been pretty close to the Leica folks for many years).

There's no disparagement or dismissal meant of your making contact with him, and I enjoyed seeing your report of the conversation. "Business is personal" as they say.

G
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Old 01-05-2015   #29
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I acknowledged how well the CCD sensor in the M9 captures image details. I told him that when I take photos of sunsets at the beach, the M9 gives me something that reminds me of the times when I used to use Fujichrome 50 where the colors change gradually from deep red to orange to yellow to ... to purple in the sky.
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Old 01-05-2015   #30
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No problem, Godfrey. I am glad to have direct access to the CEO.
Take care.

Raid


Quote:
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Raid,

The fact that they were working on a permanent solution to the CCD sensor cover glass problem was listed in their last official press release about the problem as I recall it, the same one that said they would be doing the fixes as they came up free of charge.

I didn't need to be told that they were working on the cover glass through the holidays—it's such a basic issue that I feel comfortable assuming that they are expending whatever resources are needed to get it taken care of ASAP. Leica is still selling a substantial number of CCD-based M cameras in the M-E and M Monochrom models, and have a large body of M9/M9-P users in the field. It would only make good business sense to put this issue to rest as soon as possible.

That the CEO is a Leica RF user is a nice sidebar and makes Herr Schopf more a part of the cameraderie, but it isn't actually relevant to anything business-wise as far as I'm concerned. I did know that, however, through other sources (another friend of mine has been pretty close to the Leica folks for many years).

There's no disparagement or dismissal meant of your making contact with him, and I enjoyed seeing your report of the conversation. "Business is personal" as they say.

G
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Old 01-05-2015   #31
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I acknowledged how well the CDC sensor in the M9 captures image details. ...
Raid,

It's CCD, not CDC. "Charge-Coupled Device" is what it stands for, as opposed to "Complementary Metal-Oxide Semiconductor" for CMOS.

(CDC usually stands for "Center for Disease Control" ... ;-)

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Old 01-05-2015   #32
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So, what is it that we didn't know before, other than the Leica CEO is a 'cool guy'?

Of course he's a cool guy, he's not going to rip your head off is he? But at the same time we knew he was intent on responding to concerns amongst Leica users about the 'M9 issue'. So other than answering the basic question in the OP's mind that Leica is not trying to rip him off, a paranoid view never shared by most owners, we haven't actually discovered anything else.

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Old 01-05-2015   #33
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Quote:
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Raid,

It's CCD, not CDC. "Charge-Coupled Device" is what it stands for, as opposed to "Complementary Metal-Oxide Semiconductor" for CMOS.

(CDC usually stands for "Center for Disease Control" ... ;-)

G
Yes, you are right. It is a CCD sensor. maybe I was thinking of CDC because my research on cancer clusters often leads me to access their website.
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Old 01-05-2015   #34
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So, what is it that we didn't know before, other than the Leica CEO is a 'cool guy'?

Of course he's a cool guy, he's not going to rip your head off is he? But at the same time we knew he was intent on responding to concerns amongst Leica users about the 'M9 issue'. So other than answering the basic question in the OP's mind that Leica is not trying to rip him off, a paranoid view never shared by most owners, we haven't actually discovered anything else.

V
It was mostly to establish contact with the CEO so that we stay informed on the sensor issues. I never made claims to get solutions to anything at all with a call. I never claimed to feel I am ripped off by Leica. I support Leica.
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Old 01-05-2015   #35
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I apologize if this is a dumb question, but does Leica make their own sensors? I though they bought them from Sony or another Japanese firm. From reading the thread it sounds as if they do..... thanks!
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Old 01-05-2015   #36
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I apologize if this is a dumb question, but does Leica make their own sensors? I though they bought them from Sony or another Japanese firm. From reading the thread it sounds as if they do..... thanks!
Leica does not have a chip fab ... very very few camera manufacturers do. They use (and have used) sensors from Kodak; whomever it is that Kodak sold the sensor business to for the M9/MM/M-E sensor; CMOSIS for the M typ 240 sensor; Sony for the X1, X2, X Vario, X typ 113, and T sensor; and most likely Sony or Panasonic for sensors in their other (consumer) camera lines.

As far as I'm aware, only Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, and Canon have chip fabs and make their own sensors of the manufacturers who produce complete camera systems. The rest buy their sensors from them or smaller, specialist chip manufacturers.

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Old 01-05-2015   #37
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They are working on the glass cover of the sensor and not on the sensor itself. They do not make the sensor, Ray.
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Old 01-05-2015   #38
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So, what is it that we didn't know before
The relevant info that was not 'known' or confirmed in the Leica press release:

- whether cameras purchased 2nd hand will be serviced for free. Nice to have this addressed explicitly...

- the additional technical details in Raid's paragraph #1; technical challenges of glue, sensor edge weather-proofing.

Thank you again.
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Old 01-05-2015   #39
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...As far as I'm aware, only Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, and Canon have chip fabs and make their own sensors of the manufacturers who produce complete camera systems. The rest buy their sensors from them or smaller, specialist chip manufacturers.
Sigma as well produces their (Foveon) sensors themselves.
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Old 01-05-2015   #40
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Sigma as well produces their (Foveon) sensors themselves.
Thanks! I was unaware that Sigma owned a chip fab. I wonder what else they make there.. A chip fab is such an expensive investment/operation it's hard to imagine them making just Foveon sensor chips!

...
Oh wait. A little research shows that Sigma acquired Foveon, Inc. They use the services of an independent chip manufacturer, Dongbuh (sp?) Electronics of Seoul, South Korea, to actually manufacture the Foveon sensors, same as Foveon did. Begs the same question: I wonder what else they make there.. :-)

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