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A7 II or A7 + $400?
Old 11-28-2014   #1
meeker
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A7 II or A7 + $400?

So, given that they're discount the A7 $400-, which would you go for, if buying now? Are the in-body IS and the other tweaks worth the extra?
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Old 11-28-2014   #2
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If I had the cash for the II, the II... if not, the A7. It really depends on if the 5 axis IS will be useful to you or not.
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Old 11-28-2014   #3
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Do you shoot in a style that would make you want IS with every lens?

Personally, IS annoys me. I don't like the "slightly less than blurry" look that happens with both body and lens IS. IS is also less useful with moving objects, which is (at least for me) the primary reason for high ISO in the first place.

I'd take a dedicated high iso body (A7S) or a really fast lens (55mm f1.2?) over IBIS any day. But you may use your camera in a way that makes the feature genuinely useful.
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Old 11-28-2014   #4
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Are these cameras that much better than the Canon EOS 5D II?
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Old 11-28-2014   #5
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Are these cameras that much better than the Canon EOS 5D II?
IQ is much better, *almost* night and day. Focus is on par but has wider coverage (PDAF coverage slightly larger, CDAF better & across entire sensor). FPS is on par (but of course being RFF nobody cares about burst rates). Handling is about on par, depending on your hand size and shooting habits. Video is better on the A7 unless you go Magic Lantern with the 5dII. Although being a SD card body, A7 actually has bigger buffer and faster potential write speeds (being six years younger helps...).

The 5dII has a stronger body, better flash support, better battery life. But that's about it. The A7 can take any lens the 5dII can take (and AF with most of them).

I think EVF are better than OVFs, in that they can display highlight blowout notices and semi-accurate indication of exposure and white balance. But each to his own.
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Old 11-28-2014   #6
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Are these cameras that much better than the Canon EOS 5D II?
Better pixels but not better pictures
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Old 11-28-2014   #7
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Voted for the IBIS option.

I have found (at least for myself) that IS is enormously beneficial. So much so, that I would not consider purchasing a current technology camera or lens without it.
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Old 11-28-2014   #8
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Originally Posted by meeker View Post
So, given that they're discount the A7 $400-, which would you go for, if buying now? Are the in-body IS and the other tweaks worth the extra?
It will be hard to evaluate entirely until the A7II is more readily available such that I can obtain one to test. The three things that might motivate me to upgrade to it from my A7 are (1) the improved grip and shutter release, (2) the all-metal lens mount, and (3) the IBIS system.

#2 is a plus no matter what but can be achieved for $40 with a flange replacement.

#1 looks good, will likely be great. Can't get that any other way.

#3 looks good depending upon how effective it proves to be and whether your photography can benefit from it. If good, then the $400 price difference is worth it.

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Old 11-28-2014   #9
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Ibis is going to help the most w/ long lenses. I use the Olympus em5 w/ tele zooms for my wildlife shooting. As I have gotten older, I have found that I just can't hold as steady as I used to. When I was young, I could use a 100-300mm Nikon zoom at 300 at 1/125 and still get the shot, now it is more like 1/500 and I better have some form of IS.

To me the jury is out on how good the Sony implementation will be. Once the a7mk2 actually starts shipping in US, what a7 inventory is left, may end up being sold off at lower price...but then again, will there be any inventory left. The used market will definitely be lower.

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Old 11-28-2014   #10
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Ibis is going to help the most w/ long lenses.
Gary
This is where stabilization becomes important to me; however, when I need to shoot long lenses, I typically set aside my A7R in favor of my DSLR, so for me Ibis in and of itself is not something that would make me purchase an A7 type of body.
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Old 11-28-2014   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Ibis is going to help the most w/ long lenses. I use the Olympus em5 w/ tele zooms for my wildlife shooting. As I have gotten older, I have found that I just can't hold as steady as I used to. When I was young, I could use a 100-300mm Nikon zoom at 300 at 1/125 and still get the shot, now it is more like 1/500 and I better have some form of IS.

To me the jury is out on how good the Sony implementation will be. Once the a7mk2 actually starts shipping in US, what a7 inventory is left, may end up being sold off at lower price...but then again, will there be any inventory left. The used market will definitely be lower.

Gary
Isn't Sony keeping the A7 in production as an entry-level model, just like the older RX100s?

At least that's what I've heard...
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Old 11-28-2014   #12
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If IBIS will aid your photography then nothing elses will replace it.

If you use a tripod often I would say pass and spend the money saved on lenses.
I have IS in a couple AF lenses (Fuji) and have been very pleasantly surprised with how much it benifits my keepers.
Subjects will still move too much for slow speeds but I can keep the scene looking steady which often gives a fighting chance of getting the shot.

A nice still static scene using 1/25 of sec when at 100mm is pretty damn impressive.
If that sounds useful I would get the IBIS model and not look back.
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Old 11-28-2014   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYV_146 View Post
Isn't Sony keeping the A7 in production as an entry-level model, just like the older RX100s?

At least that's what I've heard...
Sorry if I was confusing. I was talking about the a7mk1 only when I referred to inventory.

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Old 11-28-2014   #14
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does anyone know if the shutter going to sound any less like a robot fart?
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Old 11-28-2014   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeker View Post
So, given that they're discount the A7 $400-, which would you go for, if buying now? Are the in-body IS and the other tweaks worth the extra?
I grew to hate the a7, my hopes are on the 7II. Basically I would want a NEX-7 with a full frame sensor, please.
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Old 11-28-2014   #16
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You can't get the A7ii unless you're in Japan, so, get the A7.
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Old 11-28-2014   #17
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You can't get the A7ii unless your in Japan, so, get the A7.
Won't the A7ii be available in a few weeks, though, in the US?
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Old 11-28-2014   #18
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>2-1 in favor of the II so far. With my film M camera, I often find myself at f2 1/30 (trix shot at iso 320) and sometimes could do with more speed or longer exposure. Not sure if I'd be relying more on extending the exposure time and relying on IBIS to get to, say 1/10, or simply upping the iso. I don't tend to switch gear often, so I'm leaning towards spending the extra to get the newer model.
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Old 11-29-2014   #19
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anybody who can't wait to get their fingers on the new A7II, do not buy from Japan! ( unless you can read Japanese ) Japanese Sony cameras come in Japanese only and nobody yet ever has reported success in hacking one to get it to English
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Old 11-29-2014   #20
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I'd probably get a used A7, there will be people trading in for a A7 II, so an opportunity to buy cheaply. Depreciation can be extreme on some devices, so take advantage of that, and get a bargain.
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Old 11-29-2014   #21
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Won't the A7ii be available in a few weeks, though, in the US?
Depends on what you consider "a few weeks" - as I understand it, the camera is expected to be available in the US end of January/early February.

But even if it is available, I probably would put that US$400,- towards the fantastic 55/1.8 lens.
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Old 11-29-2014   #22
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Old 11-29-2014   #23
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anybody who can't wait to get their fingers on the new A7II, do not buy from Japan! ( unless you can read Japanese ) Japanese Sony cameras come in Japanese only
Another problem with the home-market products is warranty and repairs in general. It's Japan or fix it yourself, buddy! There are however often amazing deals once the product has seen some shelf time (being still a current model), and the basic settings can be easy to learn. The best I have seen is about 60% off EU prices. A much smaller gain for Americans and many others, though, and exchange rates also change over time.
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Old 11-29-2014   #24
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Depends on what you consider "a few weeks" - as I understand it, the camera is expected to be available in the US end of January/early February.

But even if it is available, I probably would put that US$400,- towards the fantastic 55/1.8 lens.
Actually, the camera will ship on December the 9th, less than 2 weeks from now.

B&H actually has the pre-order up already: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...al_camera.html
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Old 11-29-2014   #25
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If the 5 axis IBIS in the Sony is as good as the one found in the Olympus OMD EM5 then I'd go for the A7II.
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Old 11-29-2014   #26
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A7 is close to my ideal camera to use with legacy lenses.
I don't shoot sports, super-fast cars, or UFO, so I can live without IBIS.

Let the price of A7 come down to my range with more people getting the II version.
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Old 11-29-2014   #27
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If the 5 axis IBIS in the Sony is as good as the one found in the Olympus OMD EM5 then I'd go for the A7II.
There is a good chance that Sony get that technology from Olympus.
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Old 11-29-2014   #29
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There is a good chance that Sony get that technology from Olympus.
Good change that isn't true. It is a completely different system, Sony has IBIS technology of its own and the camera departments don't work together....
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Old 11-29-2014   #30
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yesterday, i had the A7 mk.2 in my hands, and the relocated shutter button is quite the difference (to me).
it is the difference between a camera that can be used versus one that can't. whether this is worth the higher price for you, i can't tell. for now i choose neither sony, as i prefer film based Ms and a fuji X-T1.
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Old 11-29-2014   #31
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yesterday, i had the A7 mk.2 in my hands, and the relocated shutter button is quite the difference (to me).
it is the difference between a camera that can be used versus one that can't. whether this is worth the higher price for you, i can't tell. for now i choose neither sony, as i prefer film based Ms and a fuji X-T1.
Hmm. For a camera that "can't be used," my A7 seems to have made quite a number of excellent photographs for me. :-)

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Old 11-30-2014   #32
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned much, unless I missed it upthread, is that the A7II is heavier than the original A7. 556g as opposed to 416g from the specs I've seen.

That's not a massive amount in itself, but if a light camera is one of the reasons one chose to go mirrorless, it all adds up. So, from that point of view, it's not about the $400.

That aside, I never shoot longer than 50mm lenses, so IS technology is of little use to me. Even at low light (and 75% of my work is hand-held night photography), I very rarely shoot at higher ISO than 3200 (even at 6400, the files are clean enough), which gives a plenty fast enough shutter speed. Faster autofocus? Can't knock that. But I can't actually remember ever having any issues with focus. If I need fast focus, then I break out the dSLR.

The ergonomics do look better, though. I do remember, when I first got the A7, finding that my finger wanted to go where the new shutter button will be. That said, it does make the new camera more bulky. Another reason why I'm happier with the original A7 for now.

If they had removed the low pass filter, kept the weight the same, got rid of that daft RAW compression nonsense (not that it's much of a practical issue), perhaps even improved dynamic range, then it might be more tempting.
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Old 11-30-2014   #33
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I already have the A7R, so anything else would be a step down.
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Old 11-30-2014   #34
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Good change that isn't true. It is a completely different system, Sony has IBIS technology of its own and the camera departments don't work together....
Since both you and I don't have the information from the source, our guesses could be wrong or right with equal amount of chance? No?
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Old 11-30-2014   #35
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I don't know how it compares with Sony's IBIS but my Pentax cameras have had IBIS for several years. It is nice and it does come in handy, but I probably shoot without it at least as often as I shoot with.

But...it is very handy in some situations and...if you don't want it you can always shut it off.

If you didn't have it to start with it is a bit difficult to turn it on.
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Old 11-30-2014   #36
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned much, unless I missed it upthread, is that the A7II is heavier than the original A7. 556g as opposed to 416g from the specs I've seen.

That's not a massive amount in itself, but if a light camera is one of the reasons one chose to go mirrorless, it all adds up. So, from that point of view, it's not about the $400.
It's of minor consequence for me. I use the A7 as a Leica R digital body, so it's size and weight are really of no concern—the lenses dominate on those factors. The grip and all metal lens mount are the most important potential improvements.

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Old 11-30-2014   #37
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There is a good chance that Sony get that technology from Olympus.
Sony has had the IBIS in the full frame A99 dslr for some time. They may be working with Olympus, Japanese companies often share ideas. The full frame 5 axis IBIS is a lot harder to develop then the 1/4th size 4/3rds sensor IBIS though. Pentax has had IBIS for almost ten years.
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Old 11-30-2014   #38
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yesterday, i had the A7 mk.2 in my hands, and the relocated shutter button is quite the difference (to me).
it is the difference between a camera that can be used versus one that can't. whether this is worth the higher price for you, i can't tell. for now i choose neither sony, as i prefer film based Ms and a fuji X-T1.
When I first saw the A7/R, I thought that the retro position of the shutter button was a mistake. It forces you into a unnatural position. It took some time for me to get used to it, but I still have to think about it when I grab the A7R. I think that the new grip and shutter button position is a fantastic improvement. Of course those who use RF bodies mostly may not like the more modern ergonomics. The small size of the A7 series was more of a issue to me at my age.
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Old 11-30-2014   #39
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Since both you and I don't have the information from the source, our guesses could be wrong or right with equal amount of chance? No?
Well, Sony said the camera divisions aren't working together, I put my money on my guess: it is developed in house at Sony. But of course I don't know either.... you're right on that.
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Old 11-30-2014   #40
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does anyone know if the shutter going to sound any less like a robot fart?
I'd like to know this too. i've only shot with the A7s, which is supposed to sound better than the A7(r), but it was still like a bomb going off.
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