rx1 vs m9 with 35 mm
Old 11-06-2014   #1
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rx1 vs m9 with 35 mm

been thinking about selling my gear and going with an m9 and 35 mm lens...but then got to thinking about a used sony rx1... much the same thing, no? full frame, very small, excellent 35 mm lens attached...

thoughts?
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Old 11-06-2014   #2
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love the lens on the sony...yummy good
Beautifully sharp, and creamy oof
GREAT Idea... its a Beautiful setup

though i am not sure about using the menu/settings, whether their simplistic or over complicated
and one final note: also with a fixed lens You will never suffer from GAS /lens lust and hopefully not dust on the sensor
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Old 11-06-2014   #3
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Both have excellent image output. Two completely different user experiences.
Neither is better than your fujis in low light. Maybe the RX1 resolves higher.
I love rangefinders.... The digital Leicas are always tempting.

Either choice would be a sideways move from your fujis.
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Old 11-06-2014   #4
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is this Destiny or Fate
there is an RX1 in the classifieds...$1650.00... CANADIAN seller
Woohoooooo....the Universe is Talking
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Old 11-06-2014   #5
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is this Destiny or Fate
there is an RX1 in the classifieds...$1650.00... CANADIAN seller
Woohoooooo....the Universe is Talking
i have no money atm though...
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Old 11-06-2014   #6
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If you are really able to just use a 35mm lens go for it... I did and I am very happy, the camera is well built and feels like a Leica. Like a lot of people say the AF is the only thing I have some problems with in low light and close up, but you can always go to manual focus with focus peaking. You have a more up to date sensor then a Leica and high iso is not a issue... I shot film M's until a few years ago weather I have a camera with my 35mm summicron or the Sony 35 Sonnar it's all the same, in fact I think the Sonnar beats the Summicron not by much but they are so close who cares.

With the Sony it's the package of the lens and the sensor that works so well.

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Old 11-06-2014   #7
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Like Andy says, such different user experiences. What are you hoping for by changing systems?

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Old 11-06-2014   #8
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For $1650 you can get a A7 with 35mm Zeiss Sonnar as well. However, if you are buying a M9 based on the call of a mechanical rangefinder / manual focus... nothing else will scratch that itch.
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Old 11-06-2014   #9
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why am i thinking of changing?
the rf experience calls to me again for one, that started it all...the sony appeals because it is small, full frame and i like the lens on it...i know it's not an rf though and that might kill the idea for me in the end.
i could keep my gear, save for a cheaper rd1 and get a cv 35/2.5 and be happy as well.
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Old 11-06-2014   #10
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Once you start playing with the files from a RX-1 you will be spoiled. Almost as good as a Monochrom.
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Old 11-06-2014   #11
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Joe, If it is just an itch, the R-D1 would be good lowish cost option - I use mine (with a CV 35 2.5) when I get the RF itch and I am still blown away by the results.
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Old 11-06-2014   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
Both have excellent image output. Two completely different user experiences.
Neither is better than your fujis in low light. Maybe the RX1 resolves higher.
I love rangefinders.... The digital Leicas are always tempting.

Either choice would be a sideways move from your fujis.
I would argue differently. The RX1 (and RX1R) sees in the dark. Literally. I never use flash. In so far as I do have to rely on the AF assist light at night and AF is slowed considerably, the files are amazing (as in stunningly) clean and look as if the have been shot with more than just any available, ambient light. I don't remember my Fuji experience being quite the same.

I have had the RX1 and now have an RX1R. They are amazing cameras - the sensor and resultant IQ is stunning and beg to be shot wide open. The bonus of having the FF sensor is that sometimes, if you get the variables right, your images will have a medium format quality to them. Something that Fuji's X-Trans sensor will never achieve.

Par example:



The menus are pretty simple.
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Old 11-06-2014   #13
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I get it, Joe. Have you considered an X-Pro? Used bodies are cheap, and although not an RF, it's a lot closer user experience than the RX1. I got one used as an experiment, thinking it might satisfy my M9 itch. I've been really surprised how much I enjoy it. The OVF is such a treat and handling very RF-like. Not much of a departure image quality-wise, but that doesn't sound like what you're looking for.

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Old 11-06-2014   #14
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absolutely agree with chris black. iso 6400 is no problem for the rx1. in a subjective world, it objectively outresolves the m9 at every iso and reaches way past it in low light. and its leaf shutter is dead silent.

of course, thats not the end of the analysis. the m9 has lots to speak for it, including the RF experience, simple menus, unique ccd look etc etc etc.

what i did is look for a great deal on the rx1/vf/RRS grip. i then got a nice rd1 for my rf glass and to get that 'rf shootin' feelin''. and i still saved a grand over the m9. if 6mp just won't do it for you, you can still add on an m8 for a total price less than a single m9.
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Old 11-06-2014   #15
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The RX1 is a phenomenal camera. I sold mine recently and I definitely miss it. It's built like a tank, the lens is superb in sharpness and rendering, and the files from it are more impressive than any camera I've shot except possibly the D800 for pure resolution. In short, it's a fantastic camera and I heartily recommend it to people that like a 35mm FOV and don't mind the Sony UI.

All that said... if you want a rangefinder, the RX1 just isn't going to scratch that itch, as jsrockit put it. As with the A7, I find Sony makes great technical tools with 'engineer UI'. They make wonderful images and are great functional tools, but it's nothing like the experience of shooting with my M6.

If I were ONLY going to shoot 35mm FOV then I'd buy an RX1 again in a heartbeat... but if I really wanted a rangefinder, an M with a 35mm lens would be where my money goes. Hint: I sold my RX1 and I bought an M
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Old 11-06-2014   #16
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I get it, Joe. Have you considered an X-Pro? Used bodies are cheap, and although not an RF, it's a lot closer user experience than the RX1. I got one used as an experiment, thinking it might satisfy my M9 itch. I've been really surprised how much I enjoy it. The OVF is such a treat and handling very RF-like. Not much of a departure image quality-wise, but that doesn't sound like what you're looking for.

John
i stated with an xpro1 and liked it...but wound up with a second xe1 as i rarely used the ovf of the xpro...

maybe i should just go for a walk with an xe1 and the 23 and clear my head...
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Old 11-06-2014   #17
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....maybe i should just go for a walk with an xe1 and the 23 and clear my head...
That usually works. For a while, anyway.
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Old 11-06-2014   #18
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I would argue differently. The RX1 (and RX1R) sees in the dark. Literally. I never use flash. In so far as I do have to rely on the AF assist light at night and AF is slowed considerably, the files are amazing (as in stunningly) clean and look as if the have been shot with more than just any available, ambient light. I don't remember my Fuji experience being quite the same.

Par example:

Well, the Fuji's do work well in low light high ISO wise (AF is another thing)... up to 6400 as well. However, no one can deny the sharpness of that Sony photo at 6400... very nice. I'm not a stickler for sharpness, but it is a beautiful image.
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Old 11-06-2014   #19
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Well, the Fuji's do work well in low light high ISO wise (AF is another thing)... up to 6400 as well. However, no one can deny the sharpness of that Sony photo at 6400... very nice. I'm not a stickler for sharpness, but it is a beautiful image.
Why thank you sir *doffs cap*, however, this image isn't at 6400 - the ISO in this example is 100. I was just blessed with some beautiful light on that particular day...
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Old 11-06-2014   #20
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If u got a drf itch..Joe, it would be hard to satisfy it w/ a rx1 though...unless the manual focus using an rf mechanism is really not what u are after..but some other aspect of this..

A rx1 will give u a bit more interesting dof and has faster af than the xe 1s u use, but the new x100t might be a better option for a dedicated 35fov look that has fast af.. But if that other aspect u are after is a different dof look, then the rx1, m9 or the a7 could be option.

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Old 11-06-2014   #21
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Remarkable image and demonstration Black.
Very impressive. You really captured the essence of this character beautifully!
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Old 11-06-2014   #22
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That usually works. For a while, anyway.
money is the real problem here...or lack of it...i'd really like to keep the fujis, get an m9 and the rx1 and use them as my whims prevail...but reality says pick one and go forward with it.

i've had the fujis for quite a while now and still enjoy them but the pull for something different is strong.
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Old 11-06-2014   #23
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The RX1 lens is excellent. Taking software correction into account it is probably the best AF 35mm there is. High ISO performance trumps the Fujis - others in the thread are right to say that visual noise is on par between the Xe2 and RX1. But usable tonal depth and dynamic range above 3200 is a totally different story. The RX1R is tack sharp, and will make you not miss files from the M9.

The two cameras, of course, shoot differently. I have three A7 seriers cameras now, and have been thinking about replacing one of them with the RX1R...
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Old 11-06-2014   #24
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Remarkable image and demonstration Black.
Very impressive. You really captured the essence of this character beautifully!
Cheers Andy - I'm sure its mostly the camera
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Old 11-06-2014   #25
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Why thank you sir *doffs cap*, however, this image isn't at 6400 - the ISO in this example is 100. I was just blessed with some beautiful light on that particular day...
Ah, you almost made me buy a RX1 based on me thinking that was 6400.

Awesome image in any case though.
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Old 11-06-2014   #26
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Ah, you almost made me buy a RX1 based on me thinking that was 6400.

Awesome image in any case though.
To be fair, IQ at 6400 ain't much different
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Old 11-06-2014   #27
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I tried an RX1r that my friend has. I wasn't thrilled with the controls, the menus, or the feel of the camera. Didn't fit my hands well without adding a grip. The sensor and lens are both excellent.

Recently I tried the Leica X typ 113. The menus, control, and feel are so close to what I love about my Leica M4-2, it was a shoo-in. The lens is superb, the sensor is excellent. Bought it, and it's been my most used camera since. One month in and it still is.

For me, both cameras are about the same thing in terms of what they can do with just the difference in format and pixels between them. Most of the differences are nuances of aesthetics: Do you prefer a Zeiss over a Leica lens for how they draw? Is 36 Mpixels essential to your photography?

If you are interested in the one camera/one lens way of photography, both do a great job and they cost pretty similarly. Both produce excellent photographs. Pick the one you like and enjoy it!

G


BTW: My friend sold her RX1r and bought an A7r instead. She couldn't get on without having interchangeable lenses. I have enough system cameras and enough lenses to sink a small aircraft carrier, so this isn't an issue for me. ;-)
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Old 11-06-2014   #28
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i like the feel of the sony...and have always liked the sonnar look...right now i am basically using 2 lenses for everything i shoot...35/85 equiv...i was content with the 6mp rd1.
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Old 11-06-2014   #29
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If you were content with the 6MP of the R-D1, and you like them as cameras, I'd probably go down that route.

I went through many 35mm RFs and have now ended up back with the Bessa R3M, even after using a Leica MP, M3, M6, ZI etc. the Bessa just feels right for me.

If you want to be back using a RF (I know I did), I'd be looking at the R-D1, price is great.
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Old 11-06-2014   #30
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I tried an R-D1 a few years back, shortly before buying the M9. It didn't appeal to me. That was one of the reasons I bought the M9, which does. :-)

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Old 11-06-2014   #31
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I tried an R-D1 a few years back, shortly before buying the M9. It didn't appeal to me. That was one of the reasons I bought the M9, which does. :-)

G
Fair enough, I don't use digital, but the R-D1 is probably the only camera which tempts me. I think it's just that I like an underdog.
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Old 11-06-2014   #32
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i loved my rd1s...should have kept one with a lens...hindsight...
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Old 11-06-2014   #33
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Interesting. Different folks, different strokes ... etc.

In the end, no one other than you and other photographers care what camera you use. It's only the photos that matter to everyone else.

Back to the original question: I know the RX1 produces nice results, but I'd rather buy a Summicron- or Summilux-M 35mm and M9 than an RX1, even though it will almost certainly cost quite a bit more. I prefer how Leica lenses draw. If you prefer how Zeiss lenses draw, go with the RX1. Or buy a Zeiss ZM lens for the M9. ;-)

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Old 11-06-2014   #34
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I have an M9-P and picked up an RX1r a few weeks ago. I like the experience of shooting an M and I love my M glass but I am very comfortable walking around with just a single lens with 35mm perspective. The RX1r is really growing on me, I appreciate the build quality, form factor, high ISO performance and overall IQ. I don't even mind The Sony menu system, battery life or lack of built-in viewfinder. In fact the EVF is a joy to use. It's all been said before by others so I won't dwell on it other than to say if you can live with its quirks, the RX1/r is a fine device indeed that simply hasn't disappointed me thus far. Maybe finally it is the one digital camera I can remain content with for many years to come.

As for the M9-P, I'm very tempted to part with it as the RX1r works it's way under my skin, but I will retain my love of the M experience by continuing to shoot with my MP. Film M shooting is the "genuine article" in this regard anyway; a digital M - even an M9/ME - comes in a distant second IMHO. So, I figure a film M and the RX1r make beautiful music together, at least to my ears - I mean eyes!

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Old 11-06-2014   #35
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i had a sony rx100 and loved using it…i imagine the experience would be similar with the rx1...
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Old 11-06-2014   #36
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been thinking about selling my gear and going with an m9 and 35 mm lens...but then got to thinking about a used sony rx1... much the same thing, no? full frame, very small, excellent 35 mm lens attached...
They are much the same when you list features for a marketing brochure. Much the same with RX1 objectively winning in everything except the inclusion of (any type of) viewfinder. But they are very different cameras in actual use. One person may prefer one, while another person prefers the other. The same they just aren't once you pick them up and make photographs.

I have used the Sony RX1R for about a year now alongside my Leica M8. It provides better image quality, but I make the better pictures with the Leica. The user experience is very different, from handling to viewing.

My overall conclusion is that RX1(R) is a great product, but an average camera. I'm glad I have one and I use it a lot. I still rather have my M8.
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Old 11-06-2014   #37
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To be fair, IQ at 6400 ain't much different
This is ISO 6400 (wide open, at or near the closest focus distance). There is visually quite minimal noise, which is hidden by the scaling. Some highlights are a bit ugly due to quick and sloppy processing, where the exposure was slightly boosted. But it's hard to slam the camera's image quality here.

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Old 11-07-2014   #38
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I went through a similar thing.
I owned an M9 and found myself only shooting 35mm , so I came to the conclusion I would be better off selling my M9 and picking up an RX1 , save some cash and have a camera that had better performance.

Luckily I held onto the M9 while I used the RX1 . Over time I found that I just didn't like the user experience of the RX1 , too many options in too many menus . I also found the camera lens heavy, unbalanced in the hand and I simply couldn't bond with holding it at arms length and missed using a view finder ( perhaps I should have purchased the EVF but I didn't want to ruin the form factor of the camera ) .

The other thing that started to irritate me was the auto focus was just a little too slow to rely on and I didn't really enjoy the manual focus implementation.

In the end I let the RX1 go and held onto the M9 , It is / was just so lovely to hold and use. Very simple and intuitive , and I love the manual focus system which I ultimately found faster and more reliable than the Sony's auto focus. ( I say was because I upgraded it to M240 ) . The M made me want to pick it up and take it out and shoot , the Sony did not, and as a result I took better photos with the M9 .

I think it comes down to whats important to you. If its performance in low light and small form factor the go with the RX1 . If its manual control and the haptic feedback an M can give you then it has to be a Leica

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Old 11-07-2014   #39
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Re: the comment of too many options - I'm curious - do you have to look at all the options, every time you use a camera?
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Old 11-07-2014   #40
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This is ISO 6400 (wide open, at or near the closest focus distance). There is visually quite minimal noise, which is hidden by the scaling. Some highlights are a bit ugly due to quick and sloppy processing, where the exposure was slightly boosted. But it's hard to slam the camera's image quality here.

Highlights look good to me... especially for 6400.
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