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Fuji X30 anounced .... it's a dud :(
Old 08-26-2014   #1
f16sunshine
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Fuji X30 anounced .... it's a dud :(

...http://www.dpreview.com/articles/995...compact-camera

What happened to th 1" sensor?
They also dropped the ovf.

I very much liked the x20 but ultimately the 2/3" sensor made me sell it.
The X30 was long rumored to have a 1" sensor (ala nikon v1 and sony rx100).
Rumors are BS
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Old 08-26-2014   #2
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The big selling point with the X10 and much better 20 was the OVF.

Now I know that the EVF has come long way, but I agree with you. I think this one will be a big stinker.
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Old 08-26-2014   #3
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I like the look of the lens better, but the rest is kind of hard to look at.
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Old 08-26-2014   #4
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Hm, I love optical viewfinders more than anyone, but doesn't this solve the problem of viewfinder coverage and of showing exactly where the camera is focusing on?
I handled the X10 and X20, looking whether it could be my first digital camera to supplement analog shooting, color for vacations etc. I liked a lot of things about both, but ultimately the optical viewfinder had too many shortcomings for me (not showing enough of what gets on the sensor.)
I have no idea how good or bad this current OLED technology is, but is it not possible that the camera as a whole does get better this way?
Gonna be interesting to hear what you say, I am not up to speed in all things newfangled stuff ;-) (I am considering color film to be experimental technology ;-) ;-) ;-) )
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Old 08-26-2014   #5
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Personally, I think the EVF is a definite improvement over the OVFs in the previous versions, which were inaccurate to the point of not being usable for me. And, yes, I have used rangefinders, film p&s, etc. but if we are saying that the OVF was the key selling point for the X10/X0, they should've done a better job with it.

Some of the other improvements in the X30 are interesting as well but, ultimately, the new bar for enthusiast "compact" camera sensors seems to be 1" thanks for Sony and company, and I just can't see the X30 being a hit.
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Old 08-26-2014   #6
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Old 08-26-2014   #7
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the ovf was only a selling point if you didn't mind the 85% coverage, lack of framelines, smallish size, slight dimness, and basic viewfinder display.

the 2/3'' sensor doesn't appeal to me either, but most of the shots i see from 1'' sensors show the limits of its dynamic range so i'm a little iffy on that as well. isn't there anyone shooting an rx100 or rx10 that knows how to expose and post-process well?
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Old 08-26-2014   #8
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I owned an X10 for about a month. The OVF was (IMO) very very disappointing, and the images were (sadly being compared to my X100) disappointing too.
I was not going for an X30 in any case, but a 1" sensor might have gotten (is that English?) my attention - at least to read up on the rest of the specs.
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Old 08-26-2014   #9
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EVF is improvement, 2/3 or 1", not much diffrence for DOF I would say and the IQ will be just fine for sure. All in all I think this is a great camera. I would love to have one
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Old 08-26-2014   #10
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For one, X30 kills Nikon V3.
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Old 08-26-2014   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
The X30 was long rumored to have a 1" sensor (ala nikon v1 and sony rx100).
Rumors are BS
In all fairness it's been long rumored not to have it as well...
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Old 08-26-2014   #12
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Quote:
It's a dud
+1 to it.

Now it just one from many, nothing special and noting interesting to spend money for.
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Old 08-26-2014   #13
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No, I guess I can agree with the later posters -the OVF was not all that great, and yes -I use several different EVF cameras. I guess the better point is that if it was EVF only now, I'd rather have a used XE.
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Old 08-26-2014   #14
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I owned the Fuji x20 and Soy RX100 at the same time. Tested them side by side and anyalyzed the IQ at same ISO's and close as possible same apertures and FL's.
The 1" snesor made a huge difference. Even though I far prefered th X20 Handling and overall package I took the RX100 with me on a trip to Europe and sold the x20 (since sold the rx100 also.... I'm picky its true).
A 1" sensor with the Xtrans array and X20 handling would be a perfect little camera.
The loss of the OVF sucks but not as much as having that small little chip. The files just did not have the Pop. Prints lacked the sharpness and life compared to th RX100 files.

I don't follow the rumors very closely. The last Rumor I read about the X30 wa that it would have the 1".
It makes sense considering the progression of these cameras. That's were my disapoinment lies.
It's probably going to be a very nice camera for folks with a lesser expectation in terms of ultimate output.
After testing the X20 and finding it's chip a dud. This X30 camera with the same chip is just another dud
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Old 08-26-2014   #15
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... never mind, I expect there will be another rumour along shortly
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Old 08-26-2014   #16
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I see Fuji making a gradual but firm shift away from the x100/x10/XPro1 ethos to a company that is very much in love with the idea of being seen as the company with the most cutting edge technology per square inch. In this new thinking, Form factor is now secondary and the Xtrans sensor is the best in the world, so good in fact,that its size does not have to compete.
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Old 08-26-2014   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwesi View Post
I see Fuji making a gradual but firm shift away from the x100/x10/XPro1 ethos to a company that is very much in love with the idea of being seen as the company with the most cutting edge technology per square inch. In this new thinking, Form factor is now secondary and the Xtrans sensor is the best in the world, so good in fact,that its size does not have to compete.

Maybe.
That 2/3 xtrans sensor does not compete though the cameras they come in are very nice indeed (X20 is wonderful in many ways).
It's a $600 Camera. There are m43 models that sell for less at this point.
What is Fuji riding on with the X30?.... style points?
This baby is going to flop
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Old 08-26-2014   #18
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Still love my X20. I knew that they will cut the optical viewfinder. No matter how bad it is, X20 have the best viewfinder in compact camera class. I also confused about sensor size, thinking it would be bigger. Like what they improve battery life.
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Old 08-26-2014   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow View Post
If you haven't used the X-E2/X-T1, you might just be surprised at how good that EVF really is! Wasn't much of an EVF fan myself - until I tried (and bought) the X-T1!
Tried the X-T1 and decided NOT to buy. Seriously, that isn't even close to an ovf.
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Old 08-26-2014   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwesi View Post
I see Fuji making a gradual but firm shift away from the x100/x10/XPro1 ethos to a company that is very much in love with the idea of being seen as the company with the most cutting edge technology per square inch. In this new thinking, Form factor is now secondary and the Xtrans sensor is the best in the world, so good in fact,that its size does not have to compete.
We will find out by photokina. The rumor about a xp2 is still out there.

Personally, I think, the ovf experience was never as good on the x10 and x20 as it was on the x100 and xp1 family.

IMHO, the only ovf cameras from Fuji are most likely gonna be the x100 and xp families. How far they last into the future is anyone's guess. I believe the ovf/evf and xtran were their market defining features. Until the market says different (sales figures), I believe we will c at least one camera from Fuji having these characteristics, IMHO.

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Amazon as an early indicator??
Old 08-26-2014   #21
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Amazon as an early indicator??

Well if amazon is any early indicator of a trend.. Others think it is a dud as well.

http://www.fujirumors.com/low-sales-...amera-ranking/

The big question is how well sales picks up (or not) as word gets out.

For me, I never like the x10 family.. It was too big to put in my pocket and the x100 was close enough in size that it never interested me, since these were both jacket pocket size camera bodies.

A fixed focal length Fuji 1 inch or apsc sensor w/ a gr size body and ovf and/or evf would be if more interest to me, especially a collapsible (powered off is about same thickness as gr) 35 or 40 fov..

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Old 08-26-2014   #22
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It seems odd to me that Fuji doesnt know its audience for the X10 - X30 cameras.
These are savvy enthusiasts who love this camera for many good reasons and find the only thing lacking is a more capable (larger) sensor.
That shouldn't be so hard to figure out.
So either there is too much Fuji pride for the Xtrans sensor that they think size doesn't matter or they are afraid a larger sensor will take away sales from the XE and X100 models.
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Old 08-26-2014   #23
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The GM1 is a better call if you want style with functionality.

For pure bang for buck the RX100 MkII can't be beaten at $600.

And you can get an APS-C NEX kit for quite a bit less...Not that much bigger, but with vastly superior IQ.

Tough sell indeed.
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Old 08-26-2014   #24
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... never mind, I expect there will be another rumour along shortly
Yep - and then 3 arrive at the same time.
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Old 08-26-2014   #25
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I think Fuji is of this mind: http://blog.mingthein.com/2014/08/24...he-difference/

But camera buyers seem to be an "informed" crowd and a 2/3 inch sensor is no longer good enough for those in the "know." Obviously this sensor size has limits relative to the competition.

The main issue is price, but you do get a laundry list of awesome features, but photographers are like kids reading car magazine, they flip to the specs and read how fast the 0-60 time is and how much power the car makes. Who cares about weight, fuel economy, reliability, skidpad results etc.

I think the camera is over priced, but I bet its a joy to shoot and produces great results with layers and layers of customization that isn't often seen in this form factor
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Old 08-26-2014   #26
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Well, I own the X10, along with micro-4/3 and APSC DSLR. The thing that keeps drawing me back to the X10 is its size and intrinsic wide DOF. Sometimes, wide is just better, for certain applications where you desire the entire image field to be in sharp relief, yet a wide aperture is required due to lighting restrictions.

(EDIT: Street Shooter has a blog article about the X20, where he recommends manual focus set to 5 feet at F/4, giving you DOF from about 2.5 feet to infinity, as per online DOF calculators. This enables the camera to be lightning fast for street photography with manual focusing and wide DOF.)

I've never taken to the OVF on the X10, as it just wasn't accurate enough for framing. In my work, it's all about accurate in-camera framing to achieve the right composition.

The place where the X10 excels is its EXR dynamic range mode, helping to tame high contrast lighting like a much bigger-sensored camera.

An EVF would always have been nice in the X10, as I've been a long time fan of them, from my Lumix G experience with micro-4/3. Seeing the exact composition, in any kind of lighting, is revelatory.

Sadly, the weak spot of the X10 are nagging little problems like the OVF diopter lens has become decoupled from the main focus mechanism, and is now entirely out of focus at all focal lengths except extreme telephoto. Which is no big deal to me, as I compose strictly on the LCD, but it serves as a reminder that the X10/20 series have been plagued by reliability issues, which I hope they get sorted in the X30.

I'm not certain if I will spring for the X30. There's so many other great cameras out on the market now, choosing is the problem. Plus, the fact that you can only use one of them at a time.

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Old 08-26-2014   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.delaRua View Post
I think Fuji is of this mind: http://blog.mingthein.com/2014/08/24...he-difference/

But camera buyers seem to be an "informed" crowd and a 2/3 inch sensor is no longer good enough for those in the "know." Obviously this sensor size has limits relative to the competition.

The main issue is price, but you do get a laundry list of awesome features, but photographers are like kids reading car magazine, they flip to the specs and read how fast the 0-60 time is and how much power the car makes. Who cares about weight, fuel economy, reliability, skidpad results etc.

I think the camera is over priced, but I bet its a joy to shoot and produces great results with layers and layers of customization that isn't often seen in this form factor

It's about making ones best effort. Has fuji provide that with this 3rd version ? My answer is no.

The X20 provides a wonderful user experience. The mechanical zoom ring with integrated on/off.
Superb AF and grip. Easy controls and menus. Some complain about the OVF but, I found that quite good enough considering it needed to zoom and did so quite nicely while providing excellent focus confirmation.
In the end though. I was visiting elder family memebers in Europe and wanted a smaller companion camera with high image quality.
The difference between the X20 and RX100 output was not all that subtle. The RX100 was cleaner and more detailed.
Taking the fuji would not have been my best effort so it lost out even though again... the user experience for me was far superior.
I did not enjoy using the Sony but... I know I enjoy the images it produced much better than those the X20 could have done.
For street or a fun B+W conversions the fuji is a fine camera which many will enjoy.
Hell... if some X20's fall into the $200 range I may even buy one again
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Old 08-26-2014   #28
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Hell... if some X20's fall into the $200 range I may even buy one again
I'd pop at that point too.
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Old 08-26-2014   #29
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Did the x10 go that low after the x20 was announced? That would be a tempting price.

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Old 08-26-2014   #30
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An X20 for $200 . . . it's not my camera (see my X10 comments above), but that would be a great deal. Might even buy one as a gift for someone.
It's been said above, this camera design is a real pleasure to handle.
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Another x30 review
Old 08-26-2014   #31
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Another x30 review

A lot of good info in terms of differences between x20 vs x30 in this review. In this article, the author mentions that the x20 & x30 use the Toshiba 2/3 sensor. It could be that too much work has to be done to convert to a one inch Sony sensor (who knows).

http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-fujifilm-x30/

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Old 08-26-2014   #32
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I am disappointed in the X30. I had been looking forward to an improved OVF, i.e. more coverage. I could have lived with the 2/3 sensor, but now that Fuji has done away entirely with the OVF, I won't buy the X30. Too bad, really. I wonder who they polled in the focus group when they developed the specs for the successor of the X20.
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Old 08-26-2014   #33
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I am in the other camp here , I think its an excellent evolution on the X20. I would take a large , bright, fast EVF with 100% coverage and detailed shooting information any day over a small , dim, tunnel like experience with limited information display.

As for the sensor size , sure it would be nicer to have a larger sensor , but if I want that while maintaining the the x-trans experience and classic styling which is a joy to shoot with there is always the XE-2 / X100s, XT1 for that .

If I want something else there are hundreds of other cameras to choose from.

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Old 08-26-2014   #34
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Quote:
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A lot of good info in terms of differences between x20 vs x30 in this review. In this article, the author mentions that the x20 & x30 use the Toshiba 2/3 sensor. It could be that too much work has to be done to convert to a one inch Sony sensor (who knows).

http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-fujifilm-x30/

Gary
Read about new interesting small features. I hope Fuji make a new firmware for X20 users as they always did for their old cameras
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Old 08-26-2014   #35
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We will find out by photokina. The rumor about a xp2 is still out there.

Personally, I think, the ovf experience was never as good on the x10 and x20 as it was on the x100 and xp1 family.

IMHO, the only ovf cameras from Fuji are most likely gonna be the x100 and xp families. How far they last into the future is anyone's guess. I believe the ovf/evf and xtran were their market defining features. [my emphasis] Until the market says different (sales figures), I believe we will c at least one camera from Fuji having these characteristics, IMHO.

Gary
Unfortunately (from my point of view) I suspect that the market (as you say, 'sales figures') may well be saying that OVFs are 'out' and EVFs are 'in'. It seems to me (in my far from scientific view of what's happening out there) that more and more camera 'lines' that used to support an optical viewfinder no longer do. (How long is it, for example, since Sony released a "real" SLR with optical viewfinder? More than a few years, I suspect.) Further, much of the "buzz" on photographic websites and forums, including this one, seems to go to cameras with electronic-only viewfinders, with only curmudgeons like me resisting the trend (though I suspect I'm not as alone as I sometimes fear; and I'm sure Canon and Nikon still sell a lot of DSLRs). And, yes, I have looked at the EVF of the XT-1 and despite it being the best of those I've seen, it's just not for me. Lesser displays even less so.

This makes me wonder whether those hoping for or expecting a hybrid OVF/EVF X-Pro 2 or X200 camera to be announced some time soon may be sorely disappointed. Fujifilm may decide that EVFs are where the action is, and that the hybrid finder is no longer part of their defining feature set (though I think the X-Trans sensor seems pretty secure). I guess they have the sales figures to guide them. I can hope, though, that either the sales figures still support proceeding with hybrid or optical finders in at least some camera lines or that Fujifilm decides to "follow it's own muse" with hybrid finders, regardless.

Note that I have no dog in this fight aside from a general thought that I want the market to support the retention and advancement of optical finders, just because they suit me. My wants, of course, hardly guide camera manufacture. I personally went with the Canon G1X - another 'dud camera' - despite it's manifest limitations, and in preference to the X10/X20. Another line that's lost it's (far from wonderful) OVF

...Mike
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Old 08-27-2014   #36
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I have an X10 (well it's my son's camera now), great image quality, really, but the OVF disappointed me - no focus confirmation, parallax, 85% coverage..... that did not work for me.

On came the X20, loved it, but.... still no 100% coverage in the VF and the exposure data in the VF were often hard to read. It was way better but no, not perfect.

Now the X30 with it's EVF at 100% and the command ring on the lensbarrel might be the camera I was looking for.

First, I don't need a super small pocketable soap bar. And then, my greasy fingers produced fingerprints on the OVF as soon as they approached the camera to less than 3 ft (a problem for me with ALL Rangefinder or lookalike cameras).

My X-E1 is a wonderful camera, but I don't like to change lenses when I'm out there...... so again I'm tempted.

This camera is certainly no flop! It might not appeal to many of us for one reason or another, but it's a VERY capable camera. And the lack of a 1" sensor is in my opinion (and for my kind of photography) not a problem.
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Old 08-27-2014   #37
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Well, after a good night's sleep, let me add 2 more cents.
The X10 that I had fell short because I had the X100 and compared it to the X100, head to head. No small camera could have won that battle. (I always grabbed the X100 to shoot something.)
Now I have an X-E1 as well, so the little X's are out of the picture for me.

But, taken on it's own, the X10/20/30 design is very attractive. Really wonderful handling !
If they are upgrading the EVF, the design deserves to do very well in the marketplace.
It must be impossible to put a very good OVF in a small camera (2/3 sensor) with a zoom lens and keep the camera affordable.
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Old 08-27-2014   #38
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I actually think the camera looks nicer ergonomically speaking. I just can't get over the 2/3 sensor since I have other cameras.
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Old 09-06-2014   #39
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I can understand Fuji moving to the EVF. I owned a X20 for about a year and though one of the reasons I bought was because it had an OVF I found myself using the LCD about 90% of the time. I sold it and bought an X100s and now use the OVF about 90% of the time. With the frame lines it opens up so many options for framing the subject. I use the EVF for certain applications and seldom use the LCD except to review.
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Old 10-11-2014   #40
Jamie Pillers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
...http://www.dpreview.com/articles/995...compact-camera

What happened to th 1" sensor?
They also dropped the ovf.

I very much liked the x20 but ultimately the 2/3" sensor made me sell it.
The X30 was long rumored to have a 1" sensor (ala nikon v1 and sony rx100).
Rumors are BS

I just handled the X30. The new viewfinder is brilliant! I compared it side-by-side with the X-E2 viewfinder and I thought the X30's to be significantly brighter.

And the new ring around the lens barrel is nice for manual focus.

I think these 2/3" and 1" sensors being put into modern compact cameras are quite useful, especially in reasonable light (I had the X20 and now have a Nikon 1 V3). The downside for me might be the 12mp file size... possibly not enough for bigger prints. I'm going to do some experiments with the old files I have from the X20 and see how big I can print them. If big, then I'm very interested in the X30... feels great in the hand and I very much like that viewfinder.
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