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Old 10-19-2013   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric T View Post
A big drawback to the Sony A7 or A7r is the very loud shutter. Reminds me of the Leica M8. I am astonished that a camera released in 2013 would have such a loud shutter.
They are not the same shutter. A7r vs A7.

A7 has ECS. A7r not. A7r is going to be louder for sure.

m240 is quiet?

anyway, appearance non-withstanding, a7 and a7r are not the same at all. body, sensor and guts: different.
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Old 10-19-2013   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
Quoting jsrockit:
"The 36 mp version scares me - my computer can handle the 24mp - but would probably crash and burn with the larger file size - and I don't really need it."

This is one of the recurring concern is so hard to understand for me
I am currently working with a composite file made of four scanned photos, one 6x9 and 3 35 mm with a old CS4 on a 2008 PC (32 bit) and the file is about 1 Gb. No problem at all. For back-up I use a Samsung 1 Tera minuscule drive that takes energy from the USB connection.
Because I am very old I wish I could by a 100 Mpix 7r now, I am afraid hat when it will come it could be too late for me
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It should be still smaller than the raw file of a dp Merrill which is around 45mb.

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Old 10-19-2013   #83
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Originally Posted by shadowfox View Post
I think what you described is one of what they call "cognitive biases." It is part of the things that influence our reasoning.
+1. I think we all have some degree of this..I believe.

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Old 10-19-2013   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35mmdelux View Post
Let's wait and see how many photojournalists run with the Sony--
Why?

Most of the information on what "they" shoot is either not available, I am not aware of a reliable "list", or out of date. The "what Salgardo shoots" threads are constantly based on old data. Whatever he shoots, or this almost mythical band of photojournalists, will not influence buyers unless they are swayed by the we give you the gear you give us a good write up "photojournalists".

In fact a number of photojournalists covering current war zones are using compact cameras for security reasons. Many others use the gear that their employer, mostly agencies these days, provides from the gear pool. Due to the glass investment they rarely change brands.

Now if Tom buys one all bets are off !!!!
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Old 10-19-2013   #85
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jsrockit

A huge apology. I was mistaken, I did not notice the quote.

Sorry

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Old 10-19-2013   #86
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I am reading about poor performance with wide angle lenses on the new SONY cameras. Has this been verified or refuted?
It would be a major deal breaker.
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Old 10-19-2013   #87
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Originally Posted by raid View Post
I am reading about poor performance with wide angle lenses on the new SONY cameras. Has this been verified or refuted?
It would be a major deal breaker.
I thought this was just another camera? Now you are on pins and needles re WA RF performance?

Results are trickling in. 28cron is apparently quite good. ZM18 is reputed to be decent in the corners.

Trouble is everything is anecdotal and sample images are few and far between. We won't know for sure for a few weeks anyway. I'd guess, like the Nex-5n, it's case by case.

A7r allows creation of lens profiles in camera to address colorshift and vignetting.

"dealbreaker" has been so far applied to general looks, the hump, the shutter, lenses, AF, SONY name, and a bunch more.

Thought this camera did not interest you---or are you warming to it?
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Old 10-20-2013   #88
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Would be nice if it takes M lenses and plays them well but I just hope it rocks with the native Zeiss lenses. If Zeiss brings a killer line for this system, I would never think about using a Leica lens on it. If I had and wanted to shoot Leica lenses I would use them on a Leica that is optimised for these lenses, not another camera that let them do weird things. It's obviously a bummer for people with a lot of Leica glass if it doesn't shoot Leica glass like the M9/M10.

I just hopes it works very well and Zeiss makes some jewels for it, I did not like the 24mm 1.8 Zeiss for NEX.

I would probably buy this over Canons High Mega Pixel Camera in the future.
I shoot a 5DII and a Contax G system 50/50. Very happy about the Contax G system, in digital I would like smaller form, higher res than 24mp and autofocus Zeiss so the resolving power is much more than the film Contax and less clumsy working than the 5DII.

The price is far from astronomical.

Will wait for more reviews, see if Fuji makes a noise, I'm in no hurry, there is nothing really wrong with the 5DII.
But if this turns out to be the first small format professional system and it kicks ass I will buy.
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Old 10-20-2013   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
Results are trickling in. 28cron is apparently quite good.
That wasn't what everybody else saw when looking at the corners in Ron Scheffler's examples. The corners from the 28 cron were mush.

If you are referencing another link, please show it here. Thanks.
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Old 10-20-2013   #90
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What I really found annoying with AF capable mount system is the fact that 99 % of the new lenses are all AF, full of electronics and thus very big. Compared to MF primes.

I would also go for native primes and forget adapted lenses if the manufacturers would offer small medium aperture full frame MF lenses in the range of a Color Skopar. But it doesn't happen. Even relatively slow AF lenses are such a big thing: transforms every compact camera body to a DSLR style camera.
And that's why I'm squinting again to my LTM/M lenses for this purpose. And why adapted lenses performance matters. And it's not only me.
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Old 10-20-2013   #91
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If the system becomes successful maybe there will come some third party manual focus lenses designed for the system/sensor. Who knows
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Old 10-20-2013   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
cant that statement be generally true, but not for the two lenses you cite? why do two examples by themselves, even if true, disprove that statement?
You wouldn't expect to win F1 races with a Ferrari engine mounted into a Toyota Yaris, would you ?
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Old 10-20-2013   #93
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Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
That wasn't what everybody else saw when looking at the corners in Ron Scheffler's examples. The corners from the 28 cron were mush.

If you are referencing another link, please show it here. Thanks.
Are you reading the thread?

I am referencing another camera. Ron tested the A7 which has a different sensor and lacks the gapless offset design which the A7r features. We did not expect the plain A7 to be great with RF glass.

I guess because the cameras look so similar people think there's no difference. The price difference alone should be a be a clue.

oh wait I forgot: the sky is falling
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Old 10-20-2013   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
Are you reading the thread?

I am referencing another camera. Ron tested the A7 which has a different sensor and lacks the gapless offset design which the A7r features. We did not expect the plain A7 to be great with RF glass.

I guess because the cameras look so similar people think there's no difference. The price difference alone should be a be a clue.

oh wait I forgot: the sky is falling
Are you sure that the A7 lacks gapless offset peripheral microlenses? The CNET review suggest that both sensors have been designed to minimize the problems associated with peripheral vignetting....etc.

Last edited by bwcolor : 10-20-2013 at 08:35. Reason: typo
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Old 10-20-2013   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
I am referencing another camera.
I suppose so, which is exactly why I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
If you are referencing another link, please show it here. Thanks.
I don't know why you would not respond to my polite request, but it seems from your comments that you have lost your cool.

Please don't trouble yourself on my account. I have plenty of other places to look for accurate information offered in a respectful spirit of sharing.
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Old 10-20-2013   #96
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I think the point several are making is that the A7r has not been tested in any meaningful way?
The point was that uhoh7 said in post #96 of this thread that the 28/2 Summicron Asph M "is apparently quite good". Although I have read through commentary and reviews, including both the linked Brian Smith test and the Ron Scheffler test, I cannot remember anybody else but Ron's test that specifically mentions the 28 'cron (and which shows the results to be quite mushy in the corners). Hence I politely asked for a link to that. Even though I sold my 28 cron some time ago, I am always eager to see how a lens that I know intimately performs on a new camera. Yet up to now, there has been some pouting and some chest-beating, but unfortunately no link that supports uhoh7's earlier assertion in post #96 of this thread about the cron 28. (My guess is that uhoh7 has mistaken the Leica 24/2.8 that was used by Brian Smith *on the A7r* for the 28/2 cron which was used on the A7 by Ron Scheffler. The mistake isn't a big deal, providing it doesn't become another internet myth, and uhoh7 should calm down).

Yes, it does appear that the A7r has not yet been tested in a meaningful way, and the differences between the A7 and the A7r are big enough to warrant careful distinction between the two.

It should be interesting, eh?!
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Old 10-20-2013   #97
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Grandson made a camera from Legos blocks. Looks just like the A7.

Just my opinion, but I probably would not pick up a free one.
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Old 10-20-2013   #98
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Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
The point was that uhoh7 said in post #96 of this thread that the 28/2 Summicron Asph M "is apparently quite good". Although I have read through commentary and reviews, including both the linked Brian Smith test and the Ron Scheffler test, I cannot remember anybody else but Ron's test that specifically mentions the 28 'cron (and which shows the results to be quite mushy in the corners). Hence I politely asked for a link to that. Even though I sold my 28 cron some time ago, I am always eager to see how a lens that I know intimately performs on a new camera. Yet up to now, there has been some pouting and some chest-beating, but unfortunately no link that supports uhoh7's earlier assertion in post #96 of this thread about the cron 28. (My guess is that uhoh7 has mistaken the Leica 24/2.8 that was used by Brian Smith *on the A7r* for the 28/2 cron which was used on the A7 by Ron Scheffler. The mistake isn't a big deal, providing it doesn't become another internet myth, and uhoh7 should calm down).

Yes, it does appear that the A7r has not yet been tested in a meaningful way, and the differences between the A7 and the A7r are big enough to warrant careful distinction between the two.

It should be interesting, eh?!
no offense intended. Your post did not distinguish between the cameras and implied Ron's results had some significance for the camera we hope will perform well: the A7r.

I said "apparently" because 28cron results on A7r are heresay at this point. Check out RF WA A7 thread at FM if you want to see where i got the heresay. Theres a ton posts and I don't have time now to find the ref.

Once we have real images it will be easy to see. Now we don't.
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Old 10-20-2013   #99
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Ignoring all the WA lens tests by Ron, have you looked at how sharp and uniform across the frame the samples by Ron using the Zeiss FE 55 f/1.8 and 35mm f/2.8 look coming out of the A7? Quite amazing I'd say. I can't wait to see how those lenses work on the A7R, without that AA filter and with the higher pixel count.

And buying all three Zeiss lenses and the Sony G lens for this system along with the A7R, IN TOTAL, will cost less than the Leica M240 body alone. I can't imagine how anybody without disposable income in the 5 digits could justify the Leica. lol
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Old 10-20-2013   #100
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For some, it is not a deal breaker if this camera is not great with Leica wides. If it works with 35mm lenses very nicely, then one can shoot one's Leica 35+ lenses and just add one (or two) Zeiss FE lenses wider than this i.e. a 24 or 21 and 28mm. You'll still save lots of money over buying a complete line of Zeiss FE lenses and therefore have a substantial saving compared to buying a M240.

Its worth reminding some people that if this camera does as well for Sony as seems likely, it will be the beginning of a very successful system. If you are planning on taking photos for the next decade, why not take a long term view about where you want to invest your money?

I'm thinking about whether this might work for me five plus years down the road and the problem here is that the M240 successor (or the one after that) won't be cheaper than the M240, so the A7 series miiiiight just be the cue some need to walk away from Leica.

I've got my monochrom and doubt I'll part with that anytime soon (if ever), but going forwards, I suspect it will be the last Leica I ever buy. I'm priced out of Leica's future, to be honest, and any temptation to save like hell for a colour Leica camera has slipped from my mind entirely.Thank goodness I have all the lenses I really need.

I guess some feel the need to rain on the A7 parade because they feel less secure in their M240/M9 ownership, but that's silly because nobody's pictures will get any worse for the creation of the A7R. To me this is about a potentially significant fork in the road, not instant teleportation!
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Old 10-20-2013   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
Grandson made a camera from Legos blocks. Looks just like the A7.

Just my opinion, but I probably would not pick up a free one.


Too bad you feel that way

Now you can't have one.

BTW, since you are so in tune with camera "looks", please, which are the truly nice ones?

It may be, for most of us, your grandson has good taste.
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Old 10-21-2013   #102
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I think these new FF cams from Sony are pretty neat. And somehow affordable for what they are trying to offer.

Could these be the best digital equivalents to the Hexar AF to date? I am eager to see full-rez images made with adapted m-mount lenses ... I bet there will be issues!
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