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Considering the RX1's status as the first FF compact ... where is it?
Old 08-21-2013   #1
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Considering the RX1's status as the first FF compact ... where is it?

The price obviously scared the bejesus out of a lot of people and owner reports appear to be few and far between around here! The Fuji X100 by comparison created a landslide of interest and continues to do so without the need to be full frame ... did Sony miss the mark? Is the world waiting for a cheaper FF mirrorless fixed lens or did the market not respond because at this price they want something similar with the ability to change lenses?

I just noticed one in the classifieds and it got me thinking ... not about owning one but just wondering if it really was the camera that could have been if it was a bit cheaper, or is the myth of full frame being erroded at last by Fuji's efforts with their excellent bodies and range of lenses to suit.
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Old 08-21-2013   #2
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I played around with one a few weeks ago during a local photographer party. IQ is excellent, better than a D600/35 1.4G combo and certainly better than an X-e1 with the fuji 35 1.4.

But everything else just feels...awkward. First of all there's no grip, and the lens is much heavier than the usual compact. A firm grip is impossible without a thumbie, but if you want the thumbs up, you'll have to ditch the plug-in EVF. Then there's the controls, fine for me but a steep learning curve for anyone who hasn't used Sony cameras before.

I say this as a die-hard Sony fan: They need to make an RX2 with more controls, at least 2-3 customization body dials, built-in EVF and accessory grip.
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Old 08-21-2013   #3
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I love mine. Dropped my M9 in the Harbour at the start of the year and decided not to reinvest in Leica digital and got RX-1 instead. Is a superb tool, not perfect but pretty close for me. I disagree with most said above. Bought a grip for $80 off ebay and fits hands nicely now. The larger lens gives it really good balance.Never used a Sony before but found it very simple to use. I am mainly a landscape guy so I use MF and ME almost all the time. The focus peaking is superb and the EVF means what you see is what you get so ME is a dream. Pick your aperture and adjust SS until what you see in EVF is what you want and then done. Can't imagine needing anymore customisable buttons, think there are 4 or 5 and I have all mine done. I also bought the Nodal Ninja 3 tripod head and I now have the smallest FF pano kit imaginable.

Did a little user report on my blog:
http://fotoflo.co.nz/2013/04/19/firs...with-sony-rx1/
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Old 08-21-2013   #4
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I have one, and use it, though I had to sell my first-born to finance it. My sole quibble is the ridiculous placement of the shutter speed control. It must have been conceived of by a sadist-cum engineer. The x100 has it exactly correct.
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Old 08-21-2013   #5
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it seems to popular on other sites on the net...

but to answer your question...
price
lens was big
no built in finder - that was the biggest complaint afaik...
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Old 08-21-2013   #6
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Have a play with one first, if possible. I had one at Heathrow awhile back and was very happy that I didn't like it! It is small and heavier than it looks with not a lot to grab on to. With no vf I found it very awkward- though I admit wanting to use my face to make the camera less cumbersome isn't as strange as it seems. One handing this camera just doesn't seem right. And then I saw the price.
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Old 08-21-2013   #7
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Sticker shock I think got everyone initially is what I think. But the ridiculous price for an Sony ovf, evf and other accessaries probably did not help either. But if u look at the base camera, for what it is, u got to realize someone has got to pay for all the r&d work they put in to create such a compact ff package.

We are now over a year from the rx100 announcement and I think the rx1 is getting to be about a year, the closest any competitor has come is Nikon Coolpix A and Ricoh gr as answers.

Personally, even w/o the built-in evf, if they had priced it closer to 2400 and the evf closer to what they sold the nex5n evf for, I think there would have been wider acceptance. The ovf is a non-issue unless u just want a Sony one.

I played w/ one at a Sony store a couple of times already. I think the control lay out is ok, but then I own a rx100.

For me ff is not needed, so if I ever buy one it is really because someone offered me a used one for a deal I could not refuse. I am a admitted gear head, so if I really wanted it, I would have found a way to buy it..

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #8
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IMO the answer is simple: It doesn't have a built-ian, focusing optical viewfinder, and the Fuji does. Add that, and you might have a small avalanche, despite the price.
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Old 08-21-2013   #9
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i will eventually get one...it took me forever to get an rd1 and then i loved it...i think it will be much the same with the sony.

but i also have to admit that the fuji x-e1/27 is keeping a large smile on my face these days.
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Old 08-21-2013   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
i will eventually get one...it took me forever to get an rd1 and then i loved it...i think it will be much the same with the sony.

but i also have to admit that the fuji x-e1/27 is keeping a large smile on my face these days.
Why would you of all people bother with full frame Joe ... what would be an advantage to you?
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Old 08-21-2013   #11
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Quote:
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Why would you of all people bother with full frame Joe ... what would be an advantage to you?
me, of all people...what does THAT mean?
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Old 08-21-2013   #12
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I have one and love the lens rendering and quality of the files (DR). However, if it had e.g. the XE-1 size and ergonomics, it would probably be more of the must have ultimate IQ camera for enthusiasts. Although the RX1 handily beats my M9 with 35 Summicron in IQ, the Leica oldie is so much more intuitive and fun in use. With EVF, the Sony is not really pocketable or more compact than a RF with a small 35mm but feels more fragile. IF you can pick one up for around USD 2000 in the used market and can live with the suboptimal ergonomics, the lens alone could justify a purchase. It`s one of the real gems and a keeper as the outstanding quality of the files the Sony sensor pumps out will not require "upgrading" for years to come.
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Old 08-21-2013   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
me, of all people...what does THAT mean?

You've never been one to jump on the full frame bandwagon that I can remember ... and it has been a bandwagon!
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Old 08-21-2013   #14
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Btw when I first saw the name of the op for this thread, I was thinking LouisB influenced u lately? U want a rx1

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Btw when I first saw the name of the op for this thread, I was thinking LouisB influenced u lately? U want a rx1

Gary

No not at all ... the camera doesn't appeal to me ... not even at half the price.

My curiosity is not restricted to the things in life that I like though!
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Hu KEH 2199 for ex grade rx1
Old 08-21-2013   #16
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Hu KEH 2199 for ex grade rx1

As I said not interested. But just for grins, I went over to KEH to c if rx1 starting showing up there.

http://www.keh.com/camera/Sony-Digit...991318460?r=FE

I would probably buy a d600 before I buy the rx1. U can pick up LN refurb's for under 1600 now.

Anyway thought I would throw this out there for those who want a rx1.

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
You've never been one to jump on the full frame bandwagon that I can remember ... and it has been a bandwagon!
oh...

i'm a sucker for a pretty face though and i like the looks of both the camera and the images it produces.
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Old 08-21-2013   #18
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I just noticed the one in the rff classified. I thought u were talking about a local newspaper in Australia, Keith.

Anyway, given the KEH reference price, the one in our classified looks to be a good price for anyone interested.

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #19
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I was lucky enough to acquire mine second hand which reduced some of the sticker shock. It was a bit of a gamble but I missed my dearly departed M8 but not enough to invest in the M9 or M.

Initially, I was a bit disappointed but in time the camera has grown on me and now I really like it. The sensor is absolutely top-notch and I am now turning out images of amazing beauty and detail. Upgrading to LR5 where I could read the ARW files directly was essential and released a lot of potential in the captures.

I'd say the lens and sensor give any Leica equivalent a good run for the money at a fraction of the price even though for most it is a sizeable investment.

LouisB
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Old 08-21-2013   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
oh...

i'm a sucker for a pretty face though and i like the looks of both the camera and the images it produces.

Terrific reason to spend twenty eight hundred dollars!

You're supposed to be setting an example for the rest of us lost souls.
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Old 08-21-2013   #21
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I was actually hoping they would release an rx10 (apsc) w/ a 40 fov (27) pancake.. Doesn't look like that will happen now

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #22
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Quote:
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Terrific reason to spend twenty eight hundred dollars!

You're supposed to be setting an example for the rest of us lost souls.
Your not a lost soul.. Your in the land of widelux and foveon is there another gas itch coming?

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
The Fuji X100 by comparison created a landslide of interest and continues to do so without the need to be full frame ... did Sony miss the mark?
They are reportedly selling well above expectations, if not as well as the X100 or X100S, but that's not surprising given the price difference.

I have both and the X100S is my EDC camera due to:
  1. Better AF (the RX1 is even slower than the original X100)
  2. Thinner lens means the camera is jacket pocketable
  3. The Fuji lens does not exhibit the severe barrel distortion of the RX1's Sonnar.

That said, the build quality on the RX1 makes anything short of a Leica feel as insubstantial as a Lomo, macro is much better on the Sony and the low-light performance is simply the best in any camera, period.
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Old 08-21-2013   #24
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Your not a lost soul.. Your in the land of widelux and foveon is there another gas itch coming?

Gary

Possibly a lens ... but not much else. I'm sure I read somewhere that Sigma are making a 24-70 f2 in Nikon mount.

Have you heard anything about that or is it just wishfull thinking?

And ... one of the Wideluxes is about to head of to Precision Camera Works in the US for a CLA. That won't be a cheap exercise!
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Old 08-21-2013   #25
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Quote:
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Possibly a lens ... but not much else. I'm sure I read somewhere that Sigma are making a 24-70 f2 in Nikon mount.

Have you heard anything about that or is it just wishfull thinking?

And ... one of the Wideluxes is about to head of to Precision Camera Works in the US for a CLA. That won't be a cheap exercise!
There's been talk about multiple (awesome) Sigma lens recently...135 f1.8, 24-70 f2, and 24 f1.4. I think I saw a picture somewhere that shows half a barrel, so it probably exists.

Most likely more expensive than all the 24-70s out there, though...
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Old 08-21-2013   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Possibly a lens ... but not much else. I'm sure I read somewhere that Sigma are making a 24-70 f2 in Nikon mount.

Have you heard anything about that or is it just wishfull thinking?

And ... one of the Wideluxes is about to head of to Precision Camera Works in the US for a CLA. That won't be a cheap exercise!
I remember reading the rumor about it as well. I cant remember which rumor site right now. Ever since I bought the sd1m, I have got this site book marked now to keep track on what is going on w/ Sigma lenses.

http://www.scoop.it/t/sigma-lens-news

W/ the metabones speedbooster my 24-85f2.8-4 becomes a 24-85f2-2.8 which is fast enough for me in terms of aperture.

Given u a lot of your pay jobs are in such low light conditions I thought u would go for a fix focal length 1.8, but a 24-70f2 is probably more convenient, especially when it gets hectic.

Wow sending widelux all the way over here - ouch.

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #27
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Found it.

http://www.cameraegg.org/tag/sigma-2...-f2-dg-os-hsm/

Looks a bit like their new 18-35f1.8 which is getting great review.

Gary
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Old 08-21-2013   #28
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I am sure that someone will hack the RX1 and put M lenses on soon

http://petapixel.com/2013/04/02/sigm...eica-m-lenses/
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Old 08-21-2013   #29
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I am sure that someone will hack the RX1 and put M lenses on soon

http://petapixel.com/2013/04/02/sigm...eica-m-lenses/
The DPx mod was a bad idea - those cameras are not like an NEX5 or X-pro1, they have absolutely no provisions for a fully manual lens. They won't bump the live view level when you stop down, so focusing at anything but wide open is almost impossible. For slower lenses around f4, the LCD view is permanently dark and laggy. The modified camera is also limited to a full electronic shutter with considerable lag.

The DP sensors also has problems with longer lenses that aren't tailor-made for it. When you go over 50mm, corners exhibit massive vignetting. Under 35mm the same color cast issue as the NEX7 shows up. All these issues, despite the fact that the sensor is even smaller than APS-C.

All in all it sort of works with a few fast lenses between 35mm and 50mm...just saying.
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Old 08-22-2013   #30
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I bought one last week. Just trying to find a Voigtlander VF now and then I can hopefully start using it...
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Old 08-22-2013   #31
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Despite being full frame and having a great lens, it is over-priced... like Leica over-priced IMO. In a few years, most compacts will be like the RX1 and will be priced more sensibly. Sony took a chance and I applaude them for that.
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Old 08-22-2013   #32
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To me, it seems a bit of a trophy camera, just like super speed lenses are trophy lenses for manufacturers. Something for Sony to beat its chest about, and roar out loud to other camera makers about. That's not to say its without its market, just that its a very small market, and an offering Sony probably makes a loss on overall. Of course, there is great value to Sony's reputation as a camera maker, something that is intangible but no doubt of invaluable benefit when it comes to selling Sony and its non-trophy camera wares to photographers.
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Old 08-22-2013   #33
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A full frame fixed lens camera in a cellphone centric market is pretty much a technical/design piece. Sony/Zeiss are rumored to be working on faster pdaf and full frame E-Mount lenses. So, we collectively wait for the next generation of Sony FF.
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Old 08-22-2013   #34
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A full frame fixed lens camera in a cellphone centric market is pretty much a technical/design piece.
I don't think cell phone snappers are caring about any high end camera... not only this sony.
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Old 08-22-2013   #35
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I played around with one a few weeks ago during a local photographer party. IQ is excellent, better than a D600/35 1.4G combo and certainly better than an X-e1 with the fuji 35 1.4.
Outside of Fuji, no one that I am aware of has seen output from the still unreleased Fuji 35/1.4.

Have you?

I mean, the sensor in the RX1 is probably a bit better, but why draw a comparison with a lens that no one has seen or used? Especially when the Sony lens requires digital correction of its distortion, and the Fuji lens (if the superb 14/2.8 is any indication) probably will not…
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Old 08-22-2013   #36
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Unreleased Fuji 35/1.4?! You are WAY behind!
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Old 08-22-2013   #37
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Outside of Fuji, no one that I am aware of has seen output from the still unreleased Fuji 35/1.4.
The 35mm 1.4 exists already... the 23mm f/1.4 does not.
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Old 08-22-2013   #38
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I don't think cell phone snappers are caring about any high end camera... not only this sony.
David Alan Harvey on cell phones and Instagram:

http://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2013/07/burndiary/
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Old 08-22-2013   #39
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I think that cameras that cost more than $1000 will all be FF in a few years time. Not necessarily because we need FF, but more for the "marketing" reasons. It will be increasingly harder to sell crop sensor based cameras when at least one competitor has a reasonably priced FF alternative.

And I think that we will see a > $5000 camera with a bigger than 35x24 sensor from Canikon.
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Old 08-22-2013   #40
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David Alan Harvey on cell phones and Instagram:

http://www.burnmagazine.org/dialogue/2013/07/burndiary/
We both know he isn't only a cellphone snapper. There is always an exception to the rule. I was speaking more to those who only use cellphones and aren't into serious photography. It wasn't a diss.
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