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Simon Says -- SimonSawSunlight Photo Technique From time to time its been suggested that RFF have a mentor Photography help section in terms of Technique - how to shoot this or that. 1st of all I had to find someone whose work I really like. 2ndly that photog had to be willing help others. That's the catch: so many excellent photogs just are not wiling to make the time for that, or just as likely, simply don't give a damn about helping others. SimonSawSunlight is an excellent up and coming photog whose work seems to go well beyond his 24 years.

You can view Simon's work at http://www.simonbephotography.com/  and www.facebook.com/simonbphotography Simon has been published in in FAZ (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung), LFI (Leica Fotografie International) and more recently in Radiate Magazine. He also recently had a large solo-exhibition in Berlin. Not too Shabby! So, let us begin this adventure and see where it goes. Thank for taking this on Simon!


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Old 05-23-2013   #41
johnwolf
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"Perspective" as in spatial relationships, or as in viewpoint? It's unclear. But if you mean the latter, I suggest that timing (and just about everything else) is embedded there.

John
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Old 05-23-2013   #42
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Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
Like when sin(x)/x when x = 0, then sin(x)/x = 1, because 0/0 = 1 !

Details and facts notwithstanding
By definition, anything divided by 0 is an undefined quantity. 0/0 does not equal 1; it is undefined. Similarly, sin(x)/x is undefined when x=0.

Sorry, but those are the facts of Mathematics. There is no contradiction of proof and absolute truth.

G
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Old 05-23-2013   #43
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"Perspective" as in spatial relationships, or as in viewpoint? It's unclear. But if you mean the latter, I suggest that timing (and just about everything else) is embedded there.

John
Perspective is simply the Planer Projection ... we call it perspective when we find it intuitive, and converging verticals when we don't

Our eyes are pretty simple lenses, but the brain they're connected to runs a very sophisticated version of photoshop ... so in effect we see what we think we see and no camera can do that
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Old 05-23-2013   #44
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Old 05-23-2013   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
By definition, anything divided by 0 is an undefined quantity. 0/0 does not equal 1; it is undefined. Similarly, sin(x)/x is undefined when x=0.

Sorry, but those are the facts of Mathematics. There is no contradiction of proof and absolute truth.

G

http://press.princeton.edu/books/maor/chapter_10.pdf


Disclaimer: my point is that anybody with information that is actually true can make absolute statements that are false (well, not exactly false, but not exactly absolutely true) that need further context. Like "in photography, you make {decisions & changes} all at once (and finally)."


This photo took over three weeks for me to make all "decisions & changes":


I guess you can argue that the exception makes the absolute rule always forever and ever?

Disclaimer #2: the above photo did not involve "copying and pasting", as all elements are as-is and composited.

Disclaimer #3: "as-is" means "unmanufactured"/photographed exactly as they appear, where they appear, when they appear...

Disclaimer #4: I know there will be an Absolutist that will claim the above is not a photograph (and a "who cares?!"-ist who won't see the point of anything contained within this post).

Disclaimer #5: Yes, Photoshop.
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Old 05-23-2013   #46
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By definition, anything divided by 0 is an undefined quantity.

Wait a minute...something undefined isn't by definition undefined! It's undefined! There are no loopholes in Absolutism! Anything is, and nothing isn't. Nothing can't be something, and something can't be nothing, otherwise we fall into grey areas, and the very absolute nature of "you're either with us or you're against us" does not allow any of this non-black-and-whiteish mumbo jumbo!

Something that is is, and nothing cannot be lest it ceases to and begins to and whoa man that stuff's heavy man! Which is exactly why they won't legalize cannabis because it is absolutely out of the question, and the question cannot be answered 'cause the flight plan isn't there man, you can't take off and begin to expand your horizons man...



But seriously, undefined isn't defined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey
Sorry, but those are the facts of Mathematics.
Hey, Lobachevsky had something to say about that
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Old 05-23-2013   #47
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Except in Mathematics, the domain of provable truths. Only in Mathematics can you prove that a theorem is true, absolutely and forever.

G
Didn't Godel haven't something to say about this? True but sometimes unprovable? Something like that...
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Old 05-23-2013   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
http://press.princeton.edu/books/maor/chapter_10.pdf


Disclaimer: my point is that anybody with information that is actually true can make absolute statements that are false (well, not exactly false, but not exactly absolutely true) that need further context. Like "in photography, you make {decisions & changes} all at once (and finally)."


This photo took over three weeks for me to make all "decisions & changes":

OK, you know what I mean. I'm talking about straightforward, camera made images. This picture goes beyond the basic photographic process into something else, more akin to collage.
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Old 05-23-2013   #49
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... fine believe what you like ... you clearly don't need any advice
Come on Stew. You think the statement you were responding to is a matter of belief?
And I don't think any of the posts here were about seeking or giving advice. It's just a discussion of what matters in the process of making photos.
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Old 05-23-2013   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
Wait a minute...something undefined isn't by definition undefined! It's undefined! There are no loopholes in Absolutism! Anything is, and nothing isn't. Nothing can't be something, and something can't be nothing, otherwise we fall into grey areas, and the very absolute nature of "you're either with us or you're against us" does not allow any of this non-black-and-whiteish mumbo jumbo!

Something that is is, and nothing cannot be lest it ceases to and begins to and whoa man that stuff's heavy man! Which is exactly why they won't legalize cannabis because it is absolutely out of the question, and the question cannot be answered 'cause the flight plan isn't there man, you can't take off and begin to expand your horizons man...



But seriously, undefined isn't defined.

Hey, Lobachevsky had something to say about that
Sorry. I have neither energy nor time to explain at present. Needless to say, your comments are either indicative of a lack of understanding of Mathematics, or you just want to argue to be funny. Sorry also if my sense of humor is lacking at the moment.

Simply stated, *everything* in Mathematics is defined or stated as axiom, even that which is defined to be undefined. That's why it is possible to construct a proof that has absolute proof. It's also why you can remove some types of singularities, like the value of the function sin x/x when x=0, and define the value at that point to be a specific constant.

G
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Old 05-23-2013   #51
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Didn't Godel haven't something to say about this? True but sometimes unprovable? Something like that...
If I recall correctly, Gödel's theorem and proof is that the system of formal proof which is Mathematics cannot encompass a complete proof of the system itself. This does not undermine the notion that Mathematics cannot prove a great number of things in absolute terms.

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Old 05-23-2013   #52
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Sorry. I have neither energy nor time to explain at present. Needless to say, your comments are either indicative of a lack of understanding of Mathematics, or you just want to argue to be funny.
Well, yes, I was always slow at advanced Math(s), and the (other) point wasn't exactly to be funny, but to poke fun at people who are too sure of themselves to make absolute statements. And yes, me guilty of that like most everyone else. But wisdom lets us know when we're stepping in our own goo (i.e. arguments).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Sorry also if my sense of humor is lacking at the moment.
No problem. Mine is solar-powered too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Simply stated, *everything* in Mathematics is defined or stated as axiom, even that which is defined to be undefined. That's why it is possible to construct a proof that has absolute proof. It's also why you can remove some types of singularities, like the value of the function sin x/x when x=0, and define the value at that point to be a specific constant.
Hence caveats and details. One should not make absolute statements; history has shown that there's a beginning and an end to just about everything; it doesn't mean that Truth ceases to be (if it ever was), it just means that an absolute statement cannot encompass everything it's trying to encompass.

Mathematics are a human language that represent concepts. The concepts may be absolutely true, but the language we use for them has certain flaws that we cannot make absolutely absolute statements with it.

This is where we err: that a statement is true a billion times out of a billion and one is not an absolute statement; it represents a truth but it's not an absolute truth.

1 = 1 is absolutely true, as far as we know. It is true because it is a concept defined by itself; so circular and tight you cannot break it.

Sin(0)/0 = 1 is true. That 0/0 = undefined is also true. Absolutists would stop there and claim the first statement is false.

As you frustratingly stated, there's no time to explain and we could go on but you and I know the snooze-fest that would be.

The point is that you can argue to death that your point is true, but to debunk an absolute statement takes energy. I wonder if there's a formula to describe the amount of energy it takes to dispute an absolute statement. Surely Cognitive Dissonance is one of the variables.

Anyway, extremely long rant short: no absolute statement is true. It may be true beyond our lifetimes, but it is bound to be disproved. Language is flawed, and like Simon said, it's meant to convey an idea. Language evolves partly when we know when it (language) cannot state or no longer states what it meant. If language were absolutely true it would never mutate. And that is just based on a hypothesis.
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Old 05-23-2013   #53
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This site has a high tolerance for blabbering. Carry on.
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Old 05-23-2013   #54
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Old 05-24-2013   #55
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Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
...
Anyway, extremely long rant short: no absolute statement is true.
...
Unfortunately, I cannot agree with your conclusion with respect to mathematical proof because it is simply incorrect. However, as stated last evening, I haven't the time nor energy to articulate a response ... I have too many other things to do today of greater importance, and cannot afford to divert my attention.

As you said, discussing mathematical logic and proof takes a lot of energy and focus ... I was a student of theoretical mathematics and took my degree in the subject. I loved it, it's a particularly entertaining and involving challenge to me, but I was a lot younger then with seeming boundless energy to expend on the pursuit.

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Old 07-20-2013   #56
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While we are in for absolute statements I would simply like to declare that nothing matters in photography.
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Old 07-20-2013   #57
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Do you really have to be rude? It does not hurt to show a little class in this tired old world or at least try to fake it.
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Old 07-20-2013   #58
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Everything depends on what a person believe.
Which originates from the person's perspective (in life, not in geometry).

And yes, that's an absolute statement.
The question is, absolute under what authority?
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Old 07-20-2013   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
no absolute statement is true.
This is an absolute statement.
therefore it isn't true.
Hence some absolute statements are true.

Just wanted part of the fun
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Old 07-21-2013   #60
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Do you really have to be rude? It does not hurt to show a little class in this tired old world or at least try to fake it.

I've done "Absolutely" nuffin.
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Old 07-24-2013   #61
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i think the only things that ultimately matter in photography are timing and perspective. everything else is opinion (or nostalgia... or masturbation... or...).
I think light sometimes come in handy, too
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Old 07-24-2013   #62
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I think light sometimes come in handy, too
That might be included in the timing portion already .
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