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120 film RF Folders 120/220 Format Folding Rangefinders, including the various classic Zeiss Ikontas, Voigtlander Bessas, and their Ruskie copies.

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Folder CLA?
Old 01-06-2017   #1
wjlapier
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Folder CLA?

I went ahead and purchased a Semi Leotax DL folder. Everything looked fine and arrived OK. Put my first roll through it and it seems the shutter is now jammed. Pretty basic linkage from the shutter button to the lens, but beyond that I can't figure out what's going on. I did use the timer in conjunction with the shutter release and it worked ok. Any ideas? Any suggestions on who to send a folder to for an inspection? I don't want to sink too much money into this, but since the camera is so neat to hold and use ( and it's in excellent shape ) I might consider new bellows and a workup of the lens assembly.

edit: fixed the jammed shutter. The lens can move clockwise/counter clockwise ever so slightly--it's tight but moves enough that I observed the shutter linkage "adjust" to back the working condition. That's a relief.

I'd still like to have a reference for bellows replacement if anyone has one.
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Old 01-06-2017   #2
KoNickon
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I immediately think of Jurgen Kreckel: http://www.certo6.com/

Seems like a lot of folks here have used his services, and there are varying opinions of his work, but he of anyone would have familiarity with your camera, I think.
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Old 01-06-2017   #3
ray*j*gun
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Yep I'm one who used Kreckel and would not, I repeat NOT recommend him for anything! Sorry I seldom opine like this but for him I will make an exception.
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Old 01-06-2017   #4
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Sounds like you just need to tighten up the lens/shutter assembly.

For a bellows, consider this: http://www.sandehalynch.com/camerawork/bellows.php
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Old 01-06-2017   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
Yep I'm one who used Kreckel and would not, I repeat NOT recommend him for anything! Sorry I seldom opine like this but for him I will make an exception.
Ditto here!!
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Old 01-06-2017   #7
Steve M.
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I suspect that using the self timer jammed the shutter. I learned a long time ago to never use those things because they jammed on too many cameras. You may be able to free it up by playing w/ it. Sorry I can't be of more technical help than that, but that's essentially what it comes down to.

Don't force anything to the point of breakage, but do try to repeatedly fire the shutter whilst giving the timer a nudge in the direction that it needs to run. Usually it jams part way through the cycle, and it needs to fully run through the whole cycle to fire the shutter and then it's free. Sometimes you can pull it back to it's fully cocked position if it jammed part way through in order to get the full effect of the spring. Once it's free, put a piece of wire or tape over that arm so that you won't accidentally trip it again. Sometimes it helps to use a cable release instead of the camera's.

The other possibility is that you have set the camera's shutter to one of the slowest speeds and it is simply hanging up. This is an easy fix. Just keep flicking the shutter arm by hand (not at the knob on top) and try to turn the speed dial to a higher speed such as 1/100 or above (not to the highest speed though if you can help it). if it still won't fire, often a squirt of lighter fluid in the seam between the edge of the rotating speed dial and the shutter's body will get in there and free things up. If the shutter blades have oil on them they will freeze up on slower speeds. All that requires is to unscrew a lens element (front or back, it matters not which) and swab down the shutter blades w/ a Q tip w/ a little lighter fluid on it, then dry them w/ clean Q tips. It will take a lot of Q tips to get them completely free of oil.
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Old 01-06-2017   #8
wjlapier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
I suspect that using the self timer jammed the shutter. I learned a long time ago to never use those things because they jammed on too many cameras. You may be able to free it up by playing w/ it. Sorry I can't be of more technical help than that, but that's essentially what it comes down to.

Don't force anything to the point of breakage, but do try to repeatedly fire the shutter whilst giving the timer a nudge in the direction that it needs to run. Usually it jams part way through the cycle, and it needs to fully run through the whole cycle to fire the shutter and then it's free. Sometimes you can pull it back to it's fully cocked position if it jammed part way through in order to get the full effect of the spring. Once it's free, put a piece of wire or tape over that arm so that you won't accidentally trip it again. Sometimes it helps to use a cable release instead of the camera's.

The other possibility is that you have set the camera's shutter to one of the slowest speeds and it is simply hanging up. This is an easy fix. Just keep flicking the shutter arm by hand (not at the knob on top) and try to turn the speed dial to a higher speed such as 1/100 or above (not to the highest speed though if you can help it). if it still won't fire, often a squirt of lighter fluid in the seam between the edge of the rotating speed dial and the shutter's body will get in there and free things up. If the shutter blades have oil on them they will freeze up on slower speeds. All that requires is to unscrew a lens element (front or back, it matters not which) and swab down the shutter blades w/ a Q tip w/ a little lighter fluid on it, then dry them w/ clean Q tips. It will take a lot of Q tips to get them completely free of oil.
Thanks Steve. I was able to free up the shutter once I looked it over and noticed the linkage was off a tiny bit--I don't know how. The tiniest rotation clockwise of the lens assembly and the linkage hooked up properly. I tested over and over the shutter lever and timer and it's all good to go. I noticed I can rotate the lens assembly counter clockwise ever so slightly--probably why the shutter stuck--actually the linkage was off.

I did email about the bellows from Sandeha Lynch. I'll check my test roll and see if there were any light leaks--the seller said they were light tight, and they look great, but nice to know I can have new ones installed.

Thanks for the replies.
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Old 01-07-2017   #9
tunalegs
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The moving shutter may just be the retaining ring (visible around the rear lens element inside the camera) being slightly loose. Anybody with a lens spanner should be able to tighten it.
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Old 01-07-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Pilot View Post
Sounds like you just need to tighten up the lens/shutter assembly.

For a bellows, consider this: http://www.sandehalynch.com/camerawork/bellows.php
No go. Doesn't have bellows for 645 and doesn't work on non-Zeiss Ikonta riveted folders.

I still don't know if the bellows need replacement as I haven't developed the roll I shot in it. FWIW, the seller said the bellows were light tight, so I'm hoping for now that's so.

Anyone else local to US?
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Old 01-07-2017   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
No go. Doesn't have bellows for 645 and doesn't work on non-Zeiss Ikonta riveted folders.

I still don't know if the bellows need replacement as I haven't developed the roll I shot in it. FWIW, the seller said the bellows were light tight, so I'm hoping for now that's so.

Anyone else local to US?
Sandeha makes bellows to order. They can make any size you need.

But if you don't have holes in the bellows, there's no point worrying about it.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #12
wjlapier
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Anyone else who can do a CLA of a folder, specifically, the Zeiss ikonta A I purchased recently. The shutter speeds are becoming erratic. I'll know later today the condition of the bellows after I develop a roll. But for now, I'd like to have the shutter looked at.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
Anyone else who can do a CLA of a folder, specifically, the Zeiss ikonta A I purchased recently. The shutter speeds are becoming erratic. I'll know later today the condition of the bellows after I develop a roll. But for now, I'd like to have the shutter looked at.
I don't remember if anyone already mentioned it, but going into a dark room and shinning a pin light all around the insides of the bellow, that is, moving it all around, then doing the same from the outside while looking inside the bellows. If you don't see light through the bellows that way, they are good at least for now.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #14
wjlapier
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I contacted Blue Moon in Portland, OR and they referred me to Advanced Camera Repair also in Portland. $190 labor. $35 parts, and if the bellows need to be replaced, ~40-60. ~$300 after everything is said and done shipped both ways. Sure is a lot.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #15
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That's not that much compared to some shops, but generally repairs exceed the value of these old cameras, that's why you find the best condition you can afford when buying.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #16
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Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
That's not that much compared to some shops, but generally repairs exceed the value of these old cameras, that's why you find the best condition you can afford when buying.
Quite so. And it sounds like at this point, the OP has fixed the only known problem. He may want to try to tighten the lens from behind, or if he doesn't have a tool, either buy one of just watch it.

Personally, I am really looking forward to seeing his photos.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #17
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I took a flashlight to the inside of the bellows and there is one tiny pin hole. I've read some solutions on the 'net and might repair it myself.

First roll from the Ikonta hanging in my shower. I'll scan later tonight and see what I got.

Another question about the spacing between images in the Ikonta. I read off the numbers before each shot taken and ended at 8. After transferring the film to a spool I looked at the backing paper and the film is feeding upside down so the spacing is wrong ( obviously )--anyone know what I mean? Film spools from right to left in the Ikonta whereas the Leotax spools from left to right. Two windows on the Ikonta on the lower part of the door.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
I took a flashlight to the inside of the bellows and there is one tiny pin hole. I've read some solutions on the 'net and might repair it myself.

First roll from the Ikonta hanging in my shower. I'll scan later tonight and see what I got.

Another question about the spacing between images in the Ikonta. I read off the numbers before each shot taken and ended at 8. After transferring the film to a spool I looked at the backing paper and the film is feeding upside down so the spacing is wrong ( obviously )--anyone know what I mean? Film spools from right to left in the Ikonta whereas the Leotax spools from left to right. Two windows on the Ikonta on the lower part of the door.
When your Ikonta was made, the only numbers on 120 were 1 through 8. The other rows of numbers didn't exist yet. To get 16 shots you wind number 1 to the first red window, shoot, wind number 1 to the second window, shoot, wind number 2 to the first window, and so on. You're exposing on one half of each 6x9 frame at a time to get the 645 format.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
When your Ikonta was made, the only numbers on 120 were 1 through 8. The other rows of numbers didn't exist yet. To get 16 shots you wind number 1 to the first red window, shoot, wind number 1 to the second window, shoot, wind number 2 to the first window, and so on. You're exposing on one half of each 6x9 frame at a time to get the 645 format.
Thanks! I'm not sure I would have figured that out. lol.
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