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120 film RF Folders 120/220 Format Folding Rangefinders, including the various classic Zeiss Ikontas, Voigtlander Bessas, and their Ruskie copies.

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Old 03-12-2009   #41
literiter
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optikhit,
I have this camera with the Prontor shutter. To remove the front element of my lens, I merely gripped it with my hand and turned counter clockwise to remove. It was quite stiff, but off it came. (This was only the lens of course. The shutter remained on the camera.)
Vincent

Last edited by literiter : 03-12-2009 at 05:34.
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Old 03-12-2009   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optikhit View Post
The shutter is the Synchro Compur.
Perhaps it is not necessary to fully service the shutter, just do a lubrication may be enough. BUT, how to remove the front lens elements? In the front there are no screws...
It just unscrews. From there, the retaining ring (and locking screw, on a larger shutter) are visible and accessable. Once this is removed, the facia, shutter speed ring and shutter speed cam just lift out. If you have not done this before, I'd suggest that you stop there. Before lifting the shutter speed cam out, note which pins engage the slots in the cam, because you will have to put them back in the slots upon reassembly.

Anyway, once you have the shutter speed cam out, you can take a small artist's brush and some naptha and scrub out the old sticky gunk and flush it all away with some fresh naptha.
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Old 03-16-2009   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb70 View Post
Too bad you didn't wait, I was planning on putting mine up on ebay. It is totally functional.
Ohhh...What a pity. I have seen a Certo Six from Australia in these days. Is that yours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by literiter View Post
optikhit,
I have this camera with the Prontor shutter. To remove the front element of my lens, I merely gripped it with my hand and turned counter clockwise to remove. It was quite stiff, but off it came. (This was only the lens of course. The shutter remained on the camera.)
Vincent
Thanks Vincent. It is so simple but it was a trick for me. I am preparing the beamsplitter, after that I will do it. Hoping the technician can do it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallisPhoto View Post
It just unscrews. From there, the retaining ring (and locking screw, on a larger shutter) are visible and accessable. Once this is removed, the facia, shutter speed ring and shutter speed cam just lift out. If you have not done this before, I'd suggest that you stop there. Before lifting the shutter speed cam out, note which pins engage the slots in the cam, because you will have to put them back in the slots upon reassembly.

Anyway, once you have the shutter speed cam out, you can take a small artist's brush and some naptha and scrub out the old sticky gunk and flush it all away with some fresh naptha.
Thanks Fallis.
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Old 04-15-2009   #44
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Open this thread again. My technician found difficult to remove the cover because on the winder side there is a dead rivet instead of a screw in the inner end. I think this is due to different model of Certo 6. Any idea?

The beamsplitter is ready. Coated in the Lab with chromium. Still have no time for the CLA.
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Old 04-16-2009   #45
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Can you send pictures? Show the rivets etc.
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Old 04-16-2009   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by literiter View Post
Can you send pictures? Show the rivets etc.
I will post the photo later. The camera now is with the technician.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chippy View Post
i echo literiter, a picture would be great...in some cases there are some micro nut and bolts that work fine in place of a rivert, or if no tolerance is available then i rivet must be used...

i would like to hear more about your re-silvering the mirror/chromium experiance, cost, difficulty in finding them, to ehsat degree they 'half' silvered the mirror, and whether they would do it for all us ol rangefinder nuts...i gues you dont know just how well the light ratio is yet...kudos, you sound like a never quite type guy!
The glass is not silvered but coated with chromium in the lab. the thickness of glass is 2mm. In optics, it is easy to design the coating for a beamsplitter, and also the multilayer coating for enhancement of transmission.

The light ratio may be not exactly 50:50, no lab test for it. Not done myself but by a friend. We did have a coating machine but it stopped working for many years.
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Old 05-23-2009   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by literiter View Post
Can you send pictures? Show the rivets etc.
Hi freinds. Sorry for that long time. Here we have the photos at last. My Certo Six seems different from others, please see the pictures below. The inner holder has a dead end rivet without any screws. And also the upper part is clean without any thread to remove the winder. Any idea?
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Last edited by optikhit : 05-23-2009 at 19:59.
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Old 05-23-2009   #48
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The upper part of the film winder....
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Old 05-24-2009   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optikhit View Post
Hi freinds. Sorry for that long time. Here we have the photos at last. My Certo Six seems different from others, please see the pictures below. The inner holder has a dead end rivet without any screws. And also the upper part is clean without any thread to remove the winder. Any idea?
It is a C6 camera! That thing looks home-made. Are you sure that is a rivet or could it be a pin? I doubt it is a rivet, since I can't see how he would flatten it. You can probably just drive it through with a drift punch from one end or the other.
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Old 05-24-2009   #50
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Optikat - that pin should be a grub screw (i.e. a screw that's all thread and has no head). I suspect that the thread was stripped by someone, and has been bodged by pressing in a pin!

If that pin can't be pressed out, it will have to be drilled out. I'd tap a new thread so you can use a slightly larger grub screw than was originally fitted.

The winder and its shaft can then simply be pulled out, allowing the top plate to be removed.

One of two different discs was glued onto the top of the winder - the first type is a depth of field scale; the second, later, type is a film speed indicator goes up to only 200 ASA!). Neither is especially useful, so I'd just stick a piece of leather there. Or you might be able to find a film speed indicator off another camera that could fit (it's always handy to know what film you put in your camera!)
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Old 05-24-2009   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
Optikat - that pin should be a grub screw (i.e. a screw that's all thread and has no head). I suspect that the thread was stripped by someone, and has been bodged by pressing in a pin!

If that pin can't be pressed out, it will have to be drilled out. I'd tap a new thread so you can use a slightly larger grub screw than was originally fitted.
What's worrying me is that the thing has the appearance of grinding. I'm hoping that isn't a brass bolt with both ends ground off!

Last edited by FallisPhoto : 05-28-2009 at 09:14.
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Old 05-28-2009   #52
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Thank you, my friends. It seems no other good method to remove the winder. We will then use the drill....
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Old 05-28-2009   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
One of two different discs was glued onto the top of the winder - the first type is a depth of field scale; the second, later, type is a film speed indicator goes up to only 200 ASA!). Neither is especially useful, so I'd just stick a piece of leather there. Or you might be able to find a film speed indicator off another camera that could fit (it's always handy to know what film you put in your camera!)
He could even put something in there that would really be useful, like a bubble level.
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Old 05-29-2009   #54
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The CLA process of my C6 began today. The winder has been removed by drilling the bolt off. FallisPhoto IS correct, that it is a brass bolt with both ends ground off!! We have changed both of the mirrors, the reflector and the beamsplitter. The reflector is sooo weak that nearly no light was reflected.

The coated beamsplitter has a very correct contrast, however, a little bit thinner than the original one, which caused a difficulty to align vertically. We have not found any micro adjust screws on the board which holds the BS. Therefore we just carefully placed the BS with some paper slice and glue.

Not finish yet...
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Old 05-30-2009   #55
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Originally Posted by optikhit View Post
The winder has been removed by drilling the bolt off. FallisPhoto IS correct, that it is a brass bolt with both ends ground off!!
Well, that just figures. I thought to myself, "So -- it's a C6 camera. What's the most screwed-up way that he could have done that?" Almost inevitably, that was it.
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Old 05-30-2009   #56
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I don't have a Certo 6, mine is an Iskra - but, man, the better old folders really cranked out beautiful images - just something about them, as evident in the posts here. Shooting the Iskra - to me, as a near-spiritual experience. I've heard a lot of great things about the Certo 6, and have been tempted, but really have only room for 1 folder...
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Old 05-30-2009   #57
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Not succeed in aligning the rangefinder system. Yestoday we have aligned the rangefinder horizontally with the round ptach image moving from right to left as the distance increase, but today we found the patch image moved in the opposite direction and not aligned. The focusing became very stiff now and the rangefinder does not move in some range less than 3m.

The beamsplitter seems not fit because it is only 1.5mm thick. It is difficult to make it align vertically. Maybe we should coat the BS again.

But first of all how to make the focusing smooth? Any idea?

Thanks.
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Old 05-30-2009   #58
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Smooth it up in the usual way: clean it and add a little grease to the threads. There is a story that some of the Russians who bought these when they were new polished the helicals by putting pumice toothpaste on them and working the focus to smooth it, but that particular story is probably apocryphal, and I wouldn't try it unless I was really desperate. It might work, but at the cost of loosening up the threads.
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Old 05-30-2009   #59
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How ro access the focusing system? It seems that we must remove the front cover with the struts.
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Old 05-31-2009   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optikhit View Post
How ro access the focusing system? It seems that we must remove the front cover with the struts.
We are still talking about a Certo Six camera? One made by the Certo company? Like this one? http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/95...a6c527.jpg?v=0 I don't understand why you'd need to take the cover and struts off. You remove that black ring surrounding the lens (the one with the writing on it). What you need to do will become pretty self-evident after that.
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Old 05-31-2009   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallisPhoto View Post
We are still talking about a Certo Six camera? One made by the Certo company? Like this one? http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/95...a6c527.jpg?v=0 I don't understand why you'd need to take the cover and struts off. You remove that black ring surrounding the lens (the one with the writing on it). What you need to do will become pretty self-evident after that.
Yes, you are right. Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2010   #62
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What is a minimal focusing distance for CertoSix?
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Old 04-05-2011   #63
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Originally Posted by FallisPhoto View Post
You remove that black ring surrounding the lens (the one with the writing on it).
That is one trick I never figured out - how do you do that without some sort of slot for a spanner to grab?

I just acquired a Certo Six with a small amount of fungus between the elements. It may be early enough to clean but I can't figure out how to remove the front or rear element on this camera.

Removing the rear element on the Moskva was simple; it just screwed out. I expected the same here but I didn't want to force anything. There are two retaining rings - one which I assume holds the rear element together and one which I assume attaches the shutter to the camera.

Am I missing something here?
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Old 04-06-2011   #64
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This is the tool that is made for that:

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-L...-Tool-Set.aspx

Unfortunately, they are currently out of stock. As you can see they are just round rubber things you press against the retainer ring and turn. The friction is all that is needed. I have on occassion found a plastic cap that will fit down in there and rolled a tube of masking tape pressed it flat and folded around the edge of the cap, it works fine but is a very temporary tool.
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DIY repair Certo Six / How glue glass on metal
Old 01-05-2012   #65
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DIY repair Certo Six / How glue glass on metal

I bought an Certo Six recently. The viewfinder doesn't work. The directions to open the camera, explained on this forum helped my a lot.
So I start cleaning, first impression is that the beamsplitter and mirror is OK. I don't touch them, because I read the coating will wipe off easily. The other lenses are real dirty.
I got another 2 problems. First the small lens near your eye has fallen out. And I see no screw that hold this tiny lens on it place? Is this lens hold on its place by a glue ? If I wanted to re-glue it, that the best glue I can use ? I want a glue that makes repair in the future possible, so it must be soluble I hate modern glue as silicone sealant for this purpose. Can I use Shellac ?
Other problem I have with the shutter knob. It seems its need a re-adjustments. If I push it downwards, some times its still not enough to release the shutter. There is outside right near the bellows a screw that in my opinion needs readjustment. But that screw is fixed with some kind of paint or glue. Is there an way so solve the paint/glue on this screw. If I would try it in this conditions I 'll damage the screw.
already thanks for help, see pictures also
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/certo1a.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/certo2a.jpg/

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Old 11-25-2013   #66
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With the help of this thread I successfully repaired my Certo Six. I thought I'd share what I learned.

I had trouble sliding the replacement beamsplitter into the bracket. Though I got the Edmund Optics 2.0mm glass it was a hair thicker than the original. The solution was to carefully bend out the tabs on the beamsplitter bracket with needle nose pliers. It wasn't so much bending as it was an iterative process of applying torque to the tabs and then seeing if the glass would slide in.

For the fully reflective mirror I found cheap glass on Ebay. You can do the same by searching for "front surface mirror" or "first surface mirror". You don't need the exact thickness. You can go thinner and shim the back side with card stock or film clippings. Make sure to orient the silvered surface outward to avoid refraction through the glass. To cut all the glass I used a carbide scribe and snapped the pieces over a straight bit of wire. I practiced on cheap glass before I cut the beam splitter.

After I replaced the mirrors my rangefinder was out of alignment. Through trial and error I figured out what to do. To fix it you'll need some ground glass and a loupe to check focus at the film plane. If you don't have ground glass you might be able to fake it with some plexiglass and Scotch Magic Tape stuck to one side. When checking the focus make sure the glass rests on the same surface that the film rests on. If you look here that would be the silver horizontal surfaces above and below the lens. (The vertical dark bars on either side of the lens are actually depressed relative to the film plane. Don't rest the glass on them or you'll end up with a front focusing problem.)

To adjust the rangefinder loosen the beam splitter assembly (screw A in the attached photo). Focus the ground glass on a far away object. Swivel the beamsplitter until the rangefinder aligns on the object. Then tighten screw A. If the vertical alignment is off you may need to shim the assembly with paper or something. Now focus the film plane on a close object, within a few meters or closer. If you're lucky the rangerfinder will now be perfectly aligned on this object. If it's not then you'll need to loosen screw B. Then rotate C, which is not a screw but a cam, to adjust the throw. You may have to repeat the above steps several times checking both near and far focus until the rangefinder is aligned at both ends of the scale. Then tighten B and put a dab of shellac or some removable adhesive over B and C to make sure they stay put.

To complicate things the eyepiece lens assembly D swivels and is pulled by a spring forcing it into a position that's different from the position it'll be in when the top cover is back on. This causes a shift in the rangefinder patch. Therefore you'll need to temporarily put the top cover back on and do a final adjustment of the beamsplitter assembly to correct for this shift (see the 2nd photo). Then with the cover still on tighten the assembly and apply a bit of removable adhesive to the edges of the assembly to make sure it stays put. Then put the whole thing back together and shoot a test roll.

After I did all this my Certo Six has perfect focus. The 3rd photo was a test at f2.8.
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Old 07-04-2014   #67
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There is so many valuable info here on adjusting the Certo 6 folder. This thread should be a sticky!
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Old 03-01-2015   #68
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Quote:
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There is so many valuable info here on adjusting the Certo 6 folder. This thread should be a sticky!
+1. Add me to "should be a sticky" list!
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Old 10-30-2016   #69
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I must relate...found out Cert6 push/slip-on lens shade/filter diameter...is 42mm.
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