dp2 quattro lcd?
Old 03-13-2016   #1
emraphoto
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dp2 quattro lcd?

someone once told me that the quattro series are somewhat akin to shooting transparency in a Mamiya 7. not sure i agree however the image quality i have seen so far is really quite impressive. is it fast? hell no. if shooting 4x5 documentary work sounds interesting then maybe it's a camera you'd appreciate.

now here is where i add to the gripe heap. the LCD on the dp2 quattro i am using is next to useless outside. even in overcast skies. of course we have a solution in the loupe Sigma offers. a $400 (in my neck of the woods) solution. the whole value of the camera is realized in careful, considered use and having the sad excuse for an LCD found on the camera makes that very difficult.

so the Loupe, of course i will get one. the question i have is why does it cost $400? i mean isn't it a pretty simple device? seriously Sigma, pretty scheisterly if you ask me.
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Old 03-13-2016   #2
Ken Ford
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I just picked up a dp0Q with the hood and can say it makes a huge difference. B&H has them for $US230 - is it worth importing from the US?
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Old 03-13-2016   #3
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It is definitely not the best. I find the LCD is not that bad though (just me), but in bright sunlight it definitely is useless. It gets washed out easily in midday sun, but can still be used..w/ a some effort. It is not on par w/ the state of the art LCD screens of others that is for sure. I actually use the LCD about 70-80% of the time, maybe in that 70-80%, a good 30% is w/ a washed out hard to c LCD. When the LCD is so washed out that it becomes useless, the I use the ovf I have attached to the hot shoe. It turns out that the LED AF confirmation light can be seen even when using the ovf.. Though the LED on the Merrill series is easier to c than the one where the Quattro is setup (moved to different location). I have plenty of ovf's from my days using rf film cameras around..

The ovf is a permanent fixture on my DP cameras.

I have vasilated about getting the LCD loupe for the sigma for quite awhile. The 230 dollars is what is holding me back plus to me the loupe makes the DP series so much bigger.. I like the smaller form factor better. So I just stuck w/ using the ovf instead..if I ever c a sale on the loupe, I may change my mind. I know others have reported success using generic third party devices like hoodman.

If u don't mind a heavier sigma based camera, they do have a dslr one in the SD1 Merrill or something like the sd14 (pre-Merrill sensor) or mirrorless w/ evf they just announced this month, the sd Quattro. It came out of two versions, an apsc and APS-h.. I'm eyeing the APS-h version. Both their dslr and mirrorless sd offerings are big and heavy, but u don't have to depend on a LCD screen like the DP series. The biggest advantage to the DP series is the lens is perfectly matched to the sensor. You'll get your best IQ from the DP series. The sd series will provide the best versatility. The af speed on the sd1 is about Nikon d100-200 era performance at best. In certain situations it is faster than the DP series in others it is slower.

The DP give u the best price performance. Especially if u were able to pick up the camera u wanted during the year no sales (price dropped to 699 for the DP series, currently 899).

Gary
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Old 03-13-2016   #4
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In terms of cost..I suspect that Sigma viewed it as a item that not every one would buy and thus priced it according to the volume that they expected to sell.. It is made better than something like a hoodman for example which uses rubber bands to hold the loupe in place. And they designed it for easier removal as well.

Gary
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Old 03-14-2016   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ford View Post
I just picked up a dp0Q with the hood and can say it makes a huge difference. B&H has them for $US230 - is it worth importing from the US?
Its good to hear it makes such a significant difference. Ill do the math and see if its a cheaper option.

Otherwise the camera really can produce outstanding images. Doing some printing later today!
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Old 03-14-2016   #6
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If I were using exclusively the Quattro series, I would surely get the Sigma branded LCDVF. But since I only use the DP0Q in combo with DP2M and DP3M, the Sigma solution is not ideal, since the LVF-01 for the Quattro is not compatible with the DP Merrills.

There are now so many third party options for only a fraction of the cost of the Sigma viewfinder, it really is an attractive choice. Many of them have diopter adjustment and can be fixed to the unit via tripod mount (while still allowing for tripod mounting). I was just searching for some over the past couple of days. The LCDVF from Cinematics looks good to me, but I haven't seen one offline yet.

On a related topic: for more mobile use (as in backcountry travel), I'd really like to know what is the lightest option possible? For this kind of usage I'd gladly trade functions like mounting in the interests of weight reduction (and hopefully compact size).
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Old 03-14-2016   #7
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It's my opinion that the LVF-01 also improves the Quattro handling. I had it on hand when I was working with the dp3 and dp0, and found that it made the Quattro's odd design a bit more palatable.

That Canadian price, though, is not as easy to stomach.
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Old 03-14-2016   #8
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Well again I am glad to hear it makes such a difference. Spending the dough to find out it really doesnt improve usability would be a bit of a bugger.

I continue to be absolutely blown away by the resolving power. I was comparing it to some 6x7 acros shot with a Mamiya 7 and scanned on a Nikon 9000... Id say the Quattro plays in that league with ease.
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Old 03-14-2016   #9
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Thanx for the heads up on the alternative lcd viewfinder options Jon, ill check it out.
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Old 03-22-2016   #10
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so, after a week i have a review.

af speed - it's a sigma dp series
battery - it's a sigma dp series
handling - factor in the LCD loupe or optical finder. trust me
iq - wow! and i mean wow! i have never, ever been happy with out of camera, mono jpegs ever. 'looks like tri-x' almost never looks like tri-x. somehow Sigma has nailed it with the Quattro in a put away the Mamiya 7 and Acros sort of way
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Old 03-22-2016   #11
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Another foveon convert

One thing I don't understand - your comment about the loupe or ovf - trust me. I believe it means u definitely need one of the two or are u saying loupe is only way to go.

Gary
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Old 03-22-2016   #12
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forgive the confusion. perhaps hyperbole yet i feel the lcd alone is next to useless outside. so pick up one of the two offerings, optical finder or loupe. or better yet, both.

but the files... holy schmoly!
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Old 03-22-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Another foveon convert

Gary
i love seeing that too, gary.

i recently put a delkin folding pop-up shade on my dp2m, which definitely helps in bright sun. but unfortunately the reviews about the product are correct, it's extremely fragile. i already broke a tab on one, which helps keep the shade on the frame, and i'm not even sure when or how it happened. i'll probably have to invest in a hoodman if i can't figure out a way to keep the delkin from breaking. luckily they're cheap.
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Old 03-22-2016   #14
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They are incredible! I picked up my SD1M and started using it again recently and I have to say it's one of the least user friendly DSLRs ever made ... and it's been so long since I have actually used it that I had to download SPP and install it on the Mac I got some time ago.

When I opened the first raw file in SPP I just sat there and stared in amazement! My 240 cannot compete ... there is no comparison IMO. If their new mirrorless is as good as I hope it will be, the Leica may be shown the door!
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Old 03-22-2016   #15
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Quote:
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They are incredible! I picked up my SD1M and started using it again recently and I have to say it's one of the least user friendly DSLRs ever made ... and it's been so long since I have actually used it that I had to download SPP and install it on the Mac I got some time ago.

When I opened the first raw file in SPP I just sat there and stared in amazement! My 240 cannot compete ... there is no comparison IMO. If their new mirrorless is as good as I hope it will be, the Leica may be shown the door!
Keith,
You encourage me to pick up my Sigma SD1M again. I stopped using it about a year ago because it became a battery hog. Batteries just can't keep a charge in this camera. I need to get it fixed.
Meanwhile, I am using a Leica T and enjoy it.
Eric
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Old 03-22-2016   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emraphoto View Post
forgive the confusion. perhaps hyperbole yet i feel the lcd alone is next to useless outside. so pick up one of the two offerings, optical finder or loupe. or better yet, both.

but the files... holy schmoly!
No problem. I guess u have higher contrast light where u live...but I do have the LCD brightness pretty high.

Bye which loupe did u end up w/?

Gary
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Old 03-22-2016   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
They are incredible! I picked up my SD1M and started using it again recently and I have to say it's one of the least user friendly DSLRs ever made ... and it's been so long since I have actually used it that I had to download SPP and install it on the Mac I got some time ago.

When I opened the first raw file in SPP I just sat there and stared in amazement! My 240 cannot compete ... there is no comparison IMO. If their new mirrorless is as good as I hope it will be, the Leica may be shown the door!
Understatement but what a reward when u look at those files.

Gary
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Old 03-22-2016   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfatty View Post
i love seeing that too, gary.

i recently put a delkin folding pop-up shade on my dp2m, which definitely helps in bright sun. but unfortunately the reviews about the product are correct, it's extremely fragile. i already broke a tab on one, which helps keep the shade on the frame, and i'm not even sure when or how it happened. i'll probably have to invest in a hoodman if i can't figure out a way to keep the delkin from breaking. luckily they're cheap.
I tried one of those folding types on a Pentax q. Didn't like it because the xtra step need to start shooting. I'm just not sure I'll like a loupe any better though.

The good thing is I've got legacy ovf's to handle all the foveon DP series including the dp0...from the days of shooting film

Gary
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Old 03-23-2016   #19
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Hi,

Just finished an afternoon of reading this thread and related posts on the web. A lot of partial comments, including suggestions of other approx OVFs but...

I can't find detailed USE comparisons of the LVF-01 loupe, the Hoodman Hoodoupe, and the VF-41, for hand-held use on a DP2Q. Or whether there are useful, cheaper work-arounds.

Specifically:
Can't tell what aspect ratio frame lines are included in the VF 41?

Whether the LVF-01 requires the separate purchase of the mounting bracket?

What advantages the LVF-01 has over the Hoodman for its almost 3x price?

Thoughts?
Thanks.

Giorgio
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Old 03-23-2016   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
No problem. I guess u have higher contrast light where u live...but I do have the LCD brightness pretty high.

Bye which loupe did u end up w/?

Gary
funny, i forgot the part about my eyes also being balls within 3-4 feet. selective disclosure i like to call it.

i will get the loupe, from Sigma, next week and report back. i bought it for editorial portraits and documentary work. never approached that stuff with a need for speediness and i always provide myself a little 'getting to know you' time before i take a new camera to work. i have work cameras. so, not anywhere near a deal breaker for me. i see it as a toyo/mamiya 7 sort of affair. slow and considered
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Old 03-23-2016   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emraphoto View Post
funny, i forgot the part about my eyes also being balls within 3-4 feet. selective disclosure i like to call it.

i will get the loupe, from Sigma, next week and report back. i bought it for editorial portraits and documentary work. never approached that stuff with a need for speediness and i always provide myself a little 'getting to know you' time before i take a new camera to work. i have work cameras. so, not anywhere near a deal breaker for me. i see it as a toyo/mamiya 7 sort of affair. slow and considered
Yep.. U got the it right..

Enjoy
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Old 03-23-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagpow View Post

Whether the LVF-01 requires the separate purchase of the mounting bracket?

What advantages the LVF-01 has over the Hoodman for its almost 3x price?

Thoughts?
Thanks.

Giorgio
I can answer one for sure and guess at the second.

The mounting bracket comes w/ the lvf-01 was what someone told me awhile back.

The price difference I think has to do w/ project volume vs cost of manufacture. The hoodman is designed to work w/ a bunch of different cameras and has a rubber band like way to attach it. The sigma version is designed to work w/ only the DP Quattro cameras. And is easily removable. Thus the sigma has significant less volume to spread over project cost but has a more versatile design but very specific to Quattro. They will not work w/ Merrill I've been told.

My guess is check,eBay for knockoffs of the lvf-01..if there's a demand, it will be somewhere on eBay.

Gary
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Old 03-23-2016   #23
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The LVF-01 does come with the dpX bracket, no need to buy one. I've handled a few of the Hoodman loupes, and the Sigma is of much better quality. I don't regret the purchase.
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Old 03-23-2016   #24
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Thanks for the responses thus far. Keep'em coming.

Does the VF-41 actually have frame lines for the various aspect ratios available on the camera, or is it worth repurposing a VF with the appropriate horizontal coverage and then masking down the vertical with tape?

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Old 04-08-2016   #25
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so, after waffling back and forth with selling the Quattro, i broke down and purchased the LVF-01. the camera has gone from frustratingly crippled in bright, outdoor conditions to an absolute joy to use. being a glasses wearing, middle aged man, the 'viewfinder' is now enormous and very sharp.

the camera is still no rapid fire machine gun but neither were the Mamiya 7/6 or Xpan, which this camera essentially replaces for me. the RAW conversion software is all the things the interwebs claims BUT the prints... oh the prints!

to sum it up, buy the LVF-01 and the camera becomes a whole new beast.
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Old 04-08-2016   #26
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I agree wholeheartedly!
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Old 04-10-2016   #27
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Glad to hear...

Just as an FYI...

The different versions of the foveon sensor is kind of like having different film loaded in your camera. They seem to provide different looks just like film. For example, the Merrill sensor has better tonal range, not as contrast, and more accurate color (except for some situations of magenta sky's) at cost of slower af and high ISO one stop less than the Quattro sensor.. The pre-Merrill sensor while smaller in mp size, had a creamy look to the shots, but otherwise looked similar to the Merrill.

Enjoy your Quattro.
Gary
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Old 04-27-2016   #28
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i had a few versions of the dp cameras in the past. has always been the same story... large format like interface with outstanding out of camera jpegs. i like that combination.

as for the Quattro, i have a real love hate love relationship with it. it is the exact opposite of my usual game. every time i begin to loathe it, i knock out a great frame and inspect the files. then i love it again. i think, if the lcd blackout in raw or superduper high (or whatever they call it) jpeg could be dealt with, i'd be a convert all in.

for now, i will try and adopt my approach to the camera. i have never been a machine gunner, frames wise, so fingers crossed.
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