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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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CSC to match rangefinder joy
Old 10-11-2015   #1
nomade
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CSC to match rangefinder joy

Hi all, missed this forum deeply...
I have bought a NIKON D7000 and was aiming for quite some time to get a Leica, but due to the price range and weight of the D7000 I am starting to consider a CSC, thinking between a Fuji - XT1 and a Lumix GX8. Not quite sure if there is anything else matching the quality of these cameras in addition to having this classic look and rangefinder like performance.
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Old 10-11-2015   #2
Roger Hicks
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The way to get the rangefinder experience is, by definition, to use a rangefinder camera. Everything else is, by definition, at best an imitation. Whether it's an acceptable imitation is a personal choice. For me, it ain't.

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Old 10-11-2015   #3
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Lots of them are pretty good at imitating the rangefinder look, just not the rangefinder experience.

The cameras you are asking about are decent cameras but they certainly are not rangefinders.
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Old 10-11-2015   #4
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Differentiate between the 'rangefinder' experience and the 'viewfinder' experience and your options open up.
Personally, I prefer the Fuji X Pro 1 as a 'viewfinder' camera.
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Old 10-11-2015   #5
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Presumably you're alluding to digital Leicas in terms of cost. I haven't kept up with Panasonic since the GX1, but Fuji X control layout permits film-cam-like choices for manual/adapted shooting, as well as splendid native lenses.

If you want to keep using some of the lenses you list (e.g. Rokkors, Jupiters) at their native focal length (and manual dials don't matter so much), consider a Sony A7 as well.

But if RF-like look and handling matters more, why not an X-Pro? Getting cheaper by the week. (Mine, bought long after I spent lots on a new XE1, was $325.) Superb with the 35 1.4.



Good luck!
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Old 10-11-2015   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
The way to get the rangefinder experience is, by definition, to use a rangefinder camera. Everything else is, by definition, at best an imitation. Whether it's an acceptable imitation is a personal choice. For me, it ain't.

Cheers,


R.
Cheers Roger, definitely you are right and I do have a few range finders but all are film which is becoming extinct, digital Leica is quite expensive, I want to match the joy and ease of use in street photography not to mention weight.
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Old 10-11-2015   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhl-oregon View Post
Presumably you're alluding to digital Leicas in terms of cost. I haven't kept up with Panasonic since the GX1, but Fuji X control layout permits film-cam-like choices for manual/adapted shooting, as well as splendid native lenses.

If you want to keep using some of the lenses you list (e.g. Rokkors, Jupiters) at their native focal length (and manual dials don't matter so much), consider a Sony A7 as well.

But if RF-like look and handling matters more, why not an X-Pro? Getting cheaper by the week. (Mine, bought long after I spent lots on a new XE1, was $325.) Superb with the 35 1.4.

Good luck!
Very useful thank you Robert
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Old 10-11-2015   #8
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Sony A6000.
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Old 10-11-2015   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomade View Post
Cheers Roger, definitely you are right and I do have a few range finders but all are film which is becoming extinct, digital Leica is quite expensive, I want to match the joy and ease of use in street photography not to mention weight.
Not really. It'll be decades yet, if it ever happens. Worry about it when it happens. I loved d.sge's description of a "new Fufi RF-Styled-(Called-Such-Because-It-doesn't-Look-Like-An-SLR)-Whatever2". They're quite nice. But they ain't RF cameras.

Cheers,

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Old 10-12-2015   #10
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for the price of the cameras you are considering, you can buy the epson rd1 and have a genuine rf experience. if you want the simplicity, joy and the lovely film like results of a ccd sensor, the rd1 is indeed the simplest of any available digital rf. it offers many advantages over digi leicas in that you can mount virtually any rf lens without concern for focus or color shift. and it is the only digi rf with a huge 1:1 finder. i have one that i love for street photography. you can get great results up to iso 1600.

as between the two youve mentioned, the fuji comes closes to the rf experience for three important characteristics not shared by m4/3: it has split screen manual focusing, the system has on lens aperture control and in cam distance scales and the xt1 has the most fully manual hardware controls of any other digital cam.
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Old 10-12-2015   #11
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Fujis going to be the closest, but it is still far away. If you like mechanical rangefinder focusing, then nothing but a RF will scratch that itch.
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Old 10-12-2015   #12
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Yeah, if what you like about rangefinders is the styling and optical viewfinder, Fuji is the way to go. I'm a big fan of the X100 series, and the X-Pro1 is still a lovely camera. (An X-Pro2 is expected pretty soon, I think?)

But yes, an M8 and R-D1 are very fine, fairly affordable actual digital rangefinders, if it's the focusing method you dig.
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Old 10-12-2015   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomade View Post
thinking between a Fuji - XT1 and a Lumix GX8.
It's probably a good idea to try these out and pick the one that feels nicer. These are both cameras that work best with native lenses. If you wish to adapt existing lenses from other systems, look into Sony instead. You certainly can use adapted lenses on these cameras as well, but Sony will have better models for that purpose.

The performance of any of these cameras is not close to a rangefinder. The Fuji X100 series and the X-Pro 1 have an optical viewfinder, but the AF operates through the sensor, not the viewfinder. For a rangefinder performance, look into Leica and Epson R-D1. The options are limited, but that does not really make anything else "close".
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Old 10-12-2015   #14
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Hi nomade, nice to see you back here. I hope to see a few pics from you, rf or dslr ...

I remember you have (had?) rf cameras...now I do not own any CSC camera (yet) but think that if you desire to go that route fuji Xpro1 or the XE 1 or 2 area good alternative. As other already said they are not RF but you know this. The XT-1 is also a good alternative a little more in the DSLR style. The controls are similar to the RFs cameras.

Important is you like what you buy and try to get the best out of it.

Ciao, robert
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Old 10-15-2015   #15
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after some research, it looks like the M8 is within the range of Fuji XT-1, which makes it a good option indeed, thank you all for your help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Hi nomade, nice to see you back here. I hope to see a few pics from you, rf or dslr ...

I remember you have (had?) rf cameras...now I do not own any CSC camera (yet) but think that if you desire to go that route fuji Xpro1 or the XE 1 or 2 area good alternative. As other already said they are not RF but you know this. The XT-1 is also a good alternative a little more in the DSLR style. The controls are similar to the RFs cameras.

Important is you like what you buy and try to get the best out of it.

Ciao, robert
Robert so long my friend , happy to be back aswell and hopefully post something soon.
I do have RFs but film, here between Alexnadria and Cairo it's very rare to find rolls and even more rare to process them. On the practical side, I a also in a full time job, I want to get my RF fun back but I cannot afford more than a 1500 $ camera.
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Last edited by nomade : 10-15-2015 at 03:19. Reason: typo
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Old 04-20-2016   #16
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Is the fuji x-series or the micro4/3s the real digital equivalent to the classical rangefinders of the 1970s?

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Old 04-20-2016   #17
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Of the cameras mentioned in the OP. None fit the bill in my opinion.
For rangefinder joy *and* digital: the M8 and RD-1 are definitely good options.
If you wish to look wider, the X-Pro is probably the next possibility.
All of the above has already been mentioned. I just thought I would re-affirm these.

I loved my M8 while I had it. Do you have lenses to go on it? Similar question for the RD-1 and Fuji. Fuji would let you use a zoom lens, if that's of interest. A number of DSLR users like zoom lenses (for good reason) and the M8 or RD-1 would limit that option.
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Old 04-21-2016   #18
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No i dont have any lenses and a very short budget.My favorite is the fuji x30. Its not about imagequality(i'm not spoiled here) but about doing photography.And i know,the time when i can afford an extra lens for a systemcamera,its even time to get a whole new camera. i think with currently 370 Euro i will pull the trigger for the x30 now.

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