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Lightly Visible Purple Tint on My 400tx/Tri-X 35mm Negs.
Old 04-10-2014   #1
LeicaVirgin1
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Unhappy Lightly Visible Purple Tint on My 400tx/Tri-X 35mm Negs.

Greetings Tom-

As stated above I have a slight purple cast to my 400tx/Tri-X 35mm Negs.

I developed them in Clayton's F76+ @ 1:9 dilution @ 68F/20C. agitation, (per Clayton Chemical Instructions), First 30 secs. 7 inversions, then 1 inversion every 30 seconds from then on. Stop for 30sec with continuous agitation. Fix in Kodaks KODAFIX for 6mins, (bottle-says 5-10mins.), with continuous agitation for the first 30secs & then every other 30 seconds; here is where I become confused in regards to FIXING TIME & AGITATION? Do you apply same technique as the developer instructions, or is it diiferent?

I rinse in running water for 30secs-to-a-full-minute. Then I add HYPO-CLEARING SOLUTION for 2mins. with continuos agitation for first 30secs & then continuos agitation for half of total time. I thin wash negative in cold running water for 5mins. Then, I submerge the spiral film reels into a tank of clean distilled water for 1min. & then as a finish, I submerge the film feels into a 1:200 diluted photo-flo/wetting-agent bath for 1 min. with no agitation. Then I hang to dry in clean, dust-free area & let dry at room temperature.


So, what am I doing wrong Tom?

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Old 04-10-2014   #2
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You have not fixed long enough. Put a film leader into the fix solution and measure the time necessary for it to clear completely. Fix for twice that amount of time with whatever regular agitation scheme.
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Old 04-10-2014   #3
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purple tint on Kodak film is the anti-halation layer.

It comes off with vigorous washing. google 'Ilford Wash Method" - basically you fill up the tank with water - invert with vigor , increasing the number of inversions with each refill of water - refill the tank 5-6 times

I typically then rinse under running water for a few mins.

the inversions progressively remove the chemicals on the film and also loosen and remove the purple.


FYI - I fix with with about 5 secs per minute of inversions - seems to be enough and was recommended by kodak in the Kodak Darkroom Handbook I used
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Old 04-10-2014   #4
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If you guys would do as Kodak recommends and wash your filum under running water for 30 minutes instead of adhering to shortcut methods you would not have these problems.

Besides, the purple cast has no consequences whatsoever.
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Old 04-11-2014   #5
Mark Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bonanno View Post
If you guys would do as Kodak recommends and wash your filum under running water for 30 minutes instead of adhering to shortcut methods you would not have these problems.

Besides, the purple cast has no consequences whatsoever.
This isn't a "shortcut method", it has been recommended by Ilford for some years now for producing negatives suitable for long term storage. See:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/...7133131459.pdf

Ask Roger Hicks for an opinion on this!
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Old 04-11-2014   #6
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Only some fresh, new, never used fixer will fully remove the purple tint off the Tri-X. It has nothing to do with washing/rinsing.

But - getting a slight purple tint with the Tri-X is normal. Basically you will always get it as soon as your fixer have been used once.

When the purple cast becomes very visible, it's time to throw the fixer away, and to prepare some new fixing stuff.

As far as the negative doesn't show some brown areas (dead fixer), there are no concerns.
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Old 04-11-2014   #7
Brian Legge
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Under-fixed with Tri-X is results in a yellow tint, typically in the center of the negative. Its how I know I've pushed my fixer way too far.

I generally associate the purple with a bit less rinsing than may be ideal. I've found slightly warmer (very slight) seems to help remove it more quickly during rinse. Some of the purple also seems to go away as the negatives dry, though that may be in my head.
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Old 04-11-2014   #8
sevo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Only some fresh, new, never used fixer will fully remove the purple tint off the Tri-X. It has nothing to do with washing/rinsing.
The tint - sensitizer dye - does wash out in water as well. Much more rapidly in fixer and stop (or even developer or hypo remover) than in plain water, so the solubility seems to be affected by pH or buffering. But even if you pop a strip of un-developed, un-fixed film into tap water and wash, the water will turn pink and the film will eventually lose all stain.

In any case, the sensitizer is (by its very own nature) very unstable in light - a few hours in sunlight will eliminate it, and it will even fade if you leave the film sleeves about in the open for a few days in incandescent light.
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Old 04-11-2014   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
The tint - sensitizer dye - does wash out in water as well. Much more rapidly in fixer and stop (or even developer or hypo remover) than in plain water, so the solubility seems to be affected by pH or buffering. But even if you pop a strip of un-developed, un-fixed film into tap water and wash, the water will turn pink and the film will eventually lose all stain.

In any case, the sensitizer is (by its very own nature) very unstable in light - a few hours in sunlight will eliminate it, and it will even fade if you leave the film sleeves about in the open for a few days in incandescent light.
Good news, confirming that this typical Kodak pink tint is a no-brainer afterall.
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Old 04-11-2014   #10
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Pre-soaking your film for a few minutes before developing will generally get rid of the blue/purple/green anti-halation layers present in some films. Give it a try next time.
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Old 04-11-2014   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammcat View Post
Pre-soaking your film for a few minutes before developing will generally get rid of the blue/purple/green anti-halation layers present in some films. Give it a try next time.
Works with 120 films, doesn't with 135 ones.
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Old 04-11-2014   #12
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It also washes out if you use Permawash as part of your processing. The Permawash can be used for numerous rolls; I mix a gallon at a time and use it for two months at two to six rolls of 36 exp. Tri-X or HP5+. When you pour the Permawash out of the tank, it has a light purple tint that disappears before you use it again.
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Old 04-11-2014   #13
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I had this problem with TMAX. But more than light purple - pretty deep purple. Solution: Fresh fixer, longer fix time. I found it also helped to wash with water as near as possible to 68F (not cold, as I was doing previously). I also found that Kodak Wash solution helps. I wash in water 1 minute, Kodak Wash 3 minutes, 5 minutes water wash. I can SEE the purple leaving the tank (I have a white sink), haha.
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Old 04-11-2014   #14
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Not fixing long enough, and/or fixer is getting exhausted.

Proper hypo clearing and washing is always a good idea and will help with this, too.
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Old 04-11-2014   #15
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We have all had this, and it doesn't seem to make much difference when printed or scanned. TriX seems to lose the purple tint (I can't remember about TmaX) when put in sunlight for a couple hours.
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Old 04-11-2014   #16
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The Ilford method of washing works well I've found, though I always give the rolls a minute of running water or so afterwards, and good fixing is just as important. I use DigitalTruth's Eco-Pro fixer for 5.5 minutes. Tmax seems to be far worse about pink/purple hue than Tri-X or Ilford/Fuji film. What's really crazy is the color that Tmax sheet film turns the developer.


Speaking of psychedelic chemistry (no, not that), Tmax occasionally turns fixer a pretty bright color. It generally disappears in a few hours.
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Old 04-11-2014   #17
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[quote=Brian Legge;2330072]Under-fixed with Tri-X is results in a yellow tint, typically in the center of the negative. Its how I know I've pushed my fixer way too far.

Thanks for mentioning this - I was looking at some negatives from about 5 years ago and two rolls had yellowing but only in the center of the negative and I wondered what caused that. Fortunately, it was on only 2 rolls out of many over the years.

I find the hypo clear gradually gets more purple with the number of rolls developed so I gues the hypo clear is removing it. The negatives do not have a purplish tint.

When I used to use Fuji Neopan 100SS, that had a purplish base after development which had no impact on prints.
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Old 12-06-2015   #19
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I actually like the purplish tint and now I try and get it each time.
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Old 12-06-2015   #20
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W/R to fixing times... I check my fixer every time I soup a roll. If it clears in two minutes, I fix for 5 or 6. BTW, I'm using Ilford Rapid Fixer. But I develop in T-Max Developer.

Once, and only once, I got a weird solid staining on my T-Max negatives and I wondered what I had done wrong. It turned out to be underfixing. I soaked all my (by then cut and filed) negatives and it disappeared. I'm glad it was the same with you. From now on, fix as the fixer says unless a test clears the negative in less than 2 minutes.

But then, I'd still do as the fixer information says. Take care and enjoy!
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Old 12-07-2015   #21
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You need a FRESH rapid fix, 5 min will do, with vigorous agitation. You can not hurt a thing as the process goes to completion.

I use Ilford wash style and then 3 60 sec soaks .

Without a good fix , you can wash for days and the dye will not come out.
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Old 12-07-2015   #22
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Wash your film like this:

a. Fill with water and agitate ten times, purge water.
b. Fill with water and agitate twenty times, let it stand for 5 minutes, purge water.
c. Fill with water and agitate twenty times, let it stand for 5 minutes, purge water.
d. Fill with water and agitate twenty times, let it stand for 5 minutes, purge water.

All purple tint is gone.
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Old 12-07-2015   #23
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IMO the most likely cause is not washing long enough and/or wash water too cold.
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Old 12-20-2015   #24
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Keep in mind that the OP was using Kodafix, a hardening fixer. Film that has gone through a hardening fix requires additional wash time. You can instead use Kodak Rapid Fixer (and not add the little bottle of hardner), or I like TF-5 from Photographers Formulary, and get shorter wash times. But even with those, even using the "Ilford method," I still end up giving Tri-X a few minutes more in a wash, just to get rid of the tint. HP5+ doesn't require this, and neither did Tri-X until they switched the manufacture/coating to the same plant that makes TMax films (years ago). I don't know why.
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Old 12-21-2015   #25
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