Old 11-06-2007   #41
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 549
Here we go! New shots with EFKE KB 400 ( pushed + 1 f-stop, 15 min in Microphen 1:1, 20 C, agitation 5sec. - every 30 sec. ). As usual, I have many
shots underexposed, funny many shots could be done with ISO 100, but I used
this film for hard test: daylight, night, low light. I must say again: I love this extra
sharp lens, but I need something wider - I think that some street shots just ask for
wide and close-up shooting! ... and EFKE, Efke is old school film, pure sadness

All photos are without corrections, only resized.
Cheers, Vlad.






















__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #42
varjag
Eugene Zaikonnikov
 
varjag's Avatar
 
varjag is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Age: 39
Posts: 2,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by varjag
The "white spots" are sign of separating lens elements in the front group. Normally they are glued together with Canadian balm (or synthetic substitute), which can deteriorate with time.
After some more research, it appears there are 3 theories about the spots: separation, crystalline growth or coating defect. Hard to tell which one is correct without taking a lens apart..
__________________
Eugene

My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #43
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,483
Good stuff, Petar!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #44
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 549
Thank you, I've tried to do my best
__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #45
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 627
Quote:
The "white spots" are sign of separating lens elements in the front group. Normally they are glued together with Canadian balm (or synthetic substitute), which can deteriorate with time.

After some more research, it appears there are 3 theories about the spots: separation, crystalline growth or coating defect. Hard to tell which one is correct without taking a lens apart..
As mentioned in my earlier post its impossible for it to be lens separation and deterioration of some cement or balsam as the front group only consists of only one element. (Please see attached lens diagram)


Quote:
I haven't seen the lens disassembled only read about this issue - often mentioned as element separation. What I can confirm is that under first glass are small particles which look like bubbles, so you're probably right. i just wonder, why they look sheer if their origin is in black/white paint. Could be these are crystals from glue balsam?
The white spots start at the rim of the lens not in the optical path where it is coated in black paint to reduce internal refections. At this stage it appears as a ring of while spots. (You can see the flat sides in the lens diagram where the white spots begin.) The fact that it starts here at the sides means it cannot be a coating flaw (for only the spherical/optical side are coated) or glue from elements glued together as there are no other elements.

The crystal theory is the only valid one. The crystals leach out of black paint and begin to form around the edges. If not cleaned and allowed to continue they become so abundant they dislodge from the edges and find their way onto the inner surface of the front element. At this point they can etch into the coating. (this is where the faulty coating myth comes from) At this stage it does effect image quality and is irreversible in its damage.

The last myth with regards to the white spots is that if it hasn't happened now it never will. Not true either. One 28mm Rokkor I had only last year that showed no white spots at all and I took it out on a very hot Australian summer day, by the time I got home there was a ring of the white spots, clearly leached out by excessive heat. So keep those 28mm Rokkors cool boys and girls especially if you have only one or 2 spots appearing. If it hasn't progressed to the lens surface get the edge of the front element cleaned and repainted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 28mmRokkorDiagram.jpg (15.2 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by Palaeoboy : 11-07-2007 at 08:29.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #46
Graham Line
Registered User
 
Graham Line's Avatar
 
Graham Line is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest US
Posts: 939
Interesting, Joel. The block diagram helps to understand it. I wish someone would post a photo of the spots.
A local dealer here had an M-Rokkor 28/2.8 for sale that had a very uniform circular donut pattern of small and smaller round dots, that looked like it could have been between elements 2&3 from the front -- sort of like the dot pattern on a CLE shutter but very symmetrical.
I'm still trying to work out what that might have been -- they offered to let me try the lens out but were asking far too much to consider buying it.

Thanks for the photos, Petar. They tell me much more than discussion and it's a fascinating look.
__________________
My Gallery

My Flickr

You can join Visionless Hacks

I've been forty years discovering that the queen of all colors is black. - Henri Matisse
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #47
nikola
Registered User
 
nikola's Avatar
 
nikola is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Split, Croatia
Age: 33
Posts: 448
Vlad... love second from bottom.
__________________
snap's @ flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #48
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikola
Vlad... love second from bottom.
second from bottom? ... strange, some people said to me : It's too dark!
Funny that man is Boba Hammer, official distributor of Efke film for Serbia
__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #49
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brugger
Interesting, Joel. The block diagram helps to understand it. I wish someone would post a photo of the spots.
A local dealer here had an M-Rokkor 28/2.8 for sale that had a very uniform circular donut pattern of small and smaller round dots, that looked like it could have been between elements 2&3 from the front -- sort of like the dot pattern on a CLE shutter but very symmetrical.
I'm still trying to work out what that might have been -- they offered to let me try the lens out but were asking far too much to consider buying it.

Thanks for the photos, Petar. They tell me much more than discussion and it's a fascinating look.
thank's I hope that
I'll be able to shoot with something wider -
I've spent a lot of time to understand that RF photography gives best results with 50mm & wider
__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2007   #50
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 627
Quote:
A local dealer here had an M-Rokkor 28/2.8 for sale that had a very uniform circular donut pattern of small and smaller round dots, that looked like it could have been between elements 2&3 from the front
Joe what you have observed is the classic case of white spots on the rim of the front element. Although it looks deep at the second and third element thats just an optical illusion as you gain a magnifying effect as you look through the front element itself. You can see the 2 flat sides on the lens diagram that angle each other at approx 120 degrees. This is where the white spots occur but remember that the front element is round and when you view the spots from the front they will appear as a perfect donut shape.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2007   #51
hmarum
Registered User
 
hmarum is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 6
I sold mine...

Last edited by hmarum : 11-09-2007 at 10:29.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-10-2007   #52
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,483
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2007   #53
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,095
Bumping this up to share two shots taken with a very late Summicron-C
that even seems multicoated. On Reala 100:





No complaints about the bokeh

Roland.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2007   #54
monster
Registered User
 
monster is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 82
This lense is small in size small in price but build amazing result


I just sold one, :-(
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2007   #55
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by endustry
I sold one of these a couple years ago but recently re-acquired one. Both of mine have been stiff focusers but the picture quality is amazing. I currently use mine as the everyday walkaround lens on my MP. Even though it's already super compact, I make mine more so by unscrewing the rubber hood and using a generic metal 39mm screw-in cap. Together it's not much thicker than a Canon G9.
Would a regular screw-in 39mm UV filter work on this lens?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2007   #56
sepiareverb
Dead ringer for Mr Grinch
 
sepiareverb's Avatar
 
sepiareverb is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St Johnsbury VT
Posts: 7,453
A regular 39mm filter will cross thread, but be snug and stay put without damage.
__________________
-Bob
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2007   #57
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb
A regular 39mm filter will cross thread, but be snug and stay put without damage.
Thanks for the info
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-26-2007   #58
sepiareverb
Dead ringer for Mr Grinch
 
sepiareverb's Avatar
 
sepiareverb is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St Johnsbury VT
Posts: 7,453
The elusive series ring is the 'correct' piece, but I think less than a dozen were ever made
__________________
-Bob
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2007   #59
Krosya
Konicaze
 
Krosya's Avatar
 
Krosya is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,534
Not a Summicron, But M-Rokkor 40/2:
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35mm Rangefinders : Leica M5 and RD1S w/ many M and LTM lenses

Folders
:
Welta Weltur 6x6/645, Welta Weltur 6x9/645


flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #60
Vincenzo Maielli
Registered User
 
Vincenzo Maielli is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bari - Italy
Age: 56
Posts: 381
Hi, dear friends. All your shots are very nice (Ned and Ferider particultarly). I also own a Summicron C 40 mm f/ 2 and i found that is an excellent performer. I love the 40 mm focal lenght.
Ciao.
Vincenzo
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #61
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo Maielli
Hi, dear friends. All your shots are very nice (Ned and Ferider particultarly). I also own a Summicron C 40 mm f/ 2 and i found that is an excellent performer. I love the 40 mm focal lenght.
Ciao.
Vincenzo
So where are the pictures?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #62
chikne
-
 
chikne is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 423
Is it usable with a 40mm external finder?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #63
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,034
For 40mm you might as well use the internal one
__________________
Bodies: Leica IIIf - Leica M3 SS - M6 Black TTL - M9

Lens: Too many to list!

My Flickr

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #64
chikne
-
 
chikne is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 423
Well, after spending the whole day shooting my rokkor, I found that I was having problems to make up the 40mm in my head.
It seems it could be easier with a lower magnification viewfinder though....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NB23
Well, Mike, my Noctilux thread is doing bad so let's hope it drives the Noctilux prices down
Hey at least you won't get flamed for starting a thread about an expensive lens =)

Last edited by chikne : 12-03-2007 at 15:08.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #65
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,034
What body do you use ? I have a M3 and double up the thickness of the 50mm lines help Or shooting too much with it so you can immediately recognised its border ( I did it that way, waste quite a bit of film though)
__________________
Bodies: Leica IIIf - Leica M3 SS - M6 Black TTL - M9

Lens: Too many to list!

My Flickr

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #66
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,095
I find M2 + 40 to be difficult. M3 and M6 + 40 work well.

Roland.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2007   #67
dacaccia
X-Pro2_X70_CLE_R3a
 
dacaccia is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 98
a yesterday's shot with my new RD-1 and Cron-C 40:

center.jpg
__________________
"We don't take pictures with our cameras, we take them with our hearts and our minds." (Arnold Newman)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #68
thafred
silver addict
 
thafred's Avatar
 
thafred is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vienna
Age: 39
Posts: 393
OMG I totaly overlooked this thread! The Cron-C was my everyday lens for quite some time now.
It is my only Leica lens and I allways thought highly of it. however the focus action is very stiff and if I need to refocus it isnīt manageable in fast situations...thatīs why I got a VC Nokton 40mm..still trying to figure out if the Nokton can hold a candle to the Cron-C (at 1.4 thereīs no contest but at smaller apertures and medium distance I doubt the Cron-C can be bettered!)

I use the M6 and filed my Lens mount down to get the 35 Framelines. never had a problem with that combination. Now I shoot with my M4-2 and the FL fit nicely too!

my Flickr stream is full of Summicron-C shots but here are some of my faves:









the detail and rendition of tones is simply amazing IMHO.
Wich lens gives me the same rendering but better mechanics? guess I have to go for a summicron-M?! but which version? (VI?!?)
__________________
No funds but lotīs of fun

My Flickr gallery

photographer at www.seconds2real.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #69
chikne
-
 
chikne is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 423
Nice shots!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
What body do you use ? I have a M3 and double up the thickness of the 50mm lines help Or shooting too much with it so you can immediately recognised its border ( I did it that way, waste quite a bit of film though)
I use an M4 .
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #70
chibaken
Registered User
 
chibaken's Avatar
 
chibaken is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29
Superb - a decent discussion about these lenses at last. I have the 40/2 Summicron-C and it's the only RFF lens I've ever used - it's outlasted 3 bodies and counting - a Leica CL, a Bessa R3A, and now it's on an M7 (hopefully the last body it will sit on now!), and it was the only lens I used on a recent round the world trip.

The only problem I have is that I find it hard to justify buying a 35mm or 50mm lens to complement it - I mean, is 5mm wider worth it?




  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #71
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 627
Quote:
the detail and rendition of tones is simply amazing IMHO.
Wich lens gives me the same rendering but better mechanics? guess I have to go for a summicron-M?! but which version? (VI?!?)
The Summicron-C's do have stiff focusing, it seems a trait of this lens. The CLE Rokkor which has a similar rendering and a conventional M cam have very light focus so you may like to switch to one of them instead.

You mentioned you had the 40mm Nokton already? Well in fact at f2 to 4 you should notice that the Nokton has greater resolution and contrast. I would give it a good try before swapping your Summicron for a CLE Rokkor.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #72
thafred
silver addict
 
thafred's Avatar
 
thafred is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vienna
Age: 39
Posts: 393
thank you very much for the advice Joel!
I have the Nokton for a month now and havenīt had the chance to use as many fine (slow) films with it as with the cron (about 20 rolls with the nokton but mostly 400-1600, only two 50asa) so Iīm still searching for the texture the cron gave me in the Nokton shots.
The handling of the nokton is perfect for me so I really hope youīre right and that itīs as excellent as the Cron (or even better you say! :-) )
Rokkors are very rare in Europe but I seriously think about them! the Cron-Cīs size and weight with my home made Lens cap is soooo right!! the perfect lens for me except focus...Iīll have an eye on the next rokkor crossing my path :-)
thank you again
fred

p.s. just noticed you write CLE rokkor..do CL rokkors focus as stiff as the Cron-C?
__________________
No funds but lotīs of fun

My Flickr gallery

photographer at www.seconds2real.com

Last edited by thafred : 12-04-2007 at 10:57.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #73
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaeoboy
The Summicron-C's do have stiff focusing, it seems a trait of this lens.
True. I just got a like new one, that was stiff since in the box and unused
since many years, and relubed it. Pretty straight forward if
anybody wants to know how ...

Roland.

Last edited by ferider : 12-04-2007 at 11:41.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #74
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 627
Quote:
p.s. just noticed you write CLE rokkor..do CL rokkors focus as stiff as the Cron-C?
Yes the first Rokkor has a firmer focus as well.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #75
photogdave
Shops local
 
photogdave's Avatar
 
photogdave is offline
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Film-filled Vancouver
Posts: 2,121
My 40mm Summicron's feels pretty smooth without being too loose. Quite perfect really! Here's some images:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sc4arff.jpg (104.1 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg sctv2arff.jpg (69.6 KB, 137 views)
__________________
Digital - I just don't care for it.

Leica M4, M6, CL
Voigtlander lenses
Pentax Optio 43 WR
Olympus Stylus Epic
Rolleiflex TLR
Nikon F100, D70

My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2007   #76
enochRoot
a chymist of some repute
 
enochRoot's Avatar
 
enochRoot is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 703
all of the 40 summicrons i have owned have also been very smooth and easy to focus.

it is one of my all time favorite lenses!!

these were all shot w/ a dark red filter. films were neopan 1600, t-max (i think 100), and konica infrared (just the building shot w/ black sky).

















__________________
my flickr

Last edited by enochRoot : 12-04-2007 at 23:09.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2007   #77
Paul T.
Registered User
 
Paul T.'s Avatar
 
Paul T. is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,842
Great photos.

I will never part with my Summicron C. The best result have been with black and white on the CL or M3 - with which it works well if you use the whole VF frame. Didn't like it quite as much on the R-D1, as it's the FOV I really love, but all the same...

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2007   #78
Krosya
Konicaze
 
Krosya's Avatar
 
Krosya is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaeoboy
Yes the first Rokkor has a firmer focus as well.
Not in my case - I have had both Rookors CL and CLE and they both focus the same - very smooth!
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35mm Rangefinders : Leica M5 and RD1S w/ many M and LTM lenses

Folders
:
Welta Weltur 6x6/645, Welta Weltur 6x9/645


flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2007   #79
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 627
Quote:
all of the 40 summicrons i have owned have also been very smooth and easy to focus.
The firmer focus of the Summicron over the CLE Rokkor should not be confused with being rough or unusable, in fact they focus smoothly and silently just in Comparison with the CLE Rokkor which if anything is a bit too light.

Quote:
Not in my case - I have had both Rookors CL and CLE and they both focus the same - very smooth!
Again its not a question of not being smooth just the amount of effort required to focus both examples. If your CLE 40 is not lighter in its focus than your CL Rokkor then I suggest it need a simple lubrication. I have owned and handled dozens of examples and all the CLE examples were almost feather touch to focus, the CL version although smooth were always firmer. I quite prefer the firmer action actually but each to his own.

Last edited by Palaeoboy : 12-05-2007 at 06:47.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-08-2008   #80
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,483
Been a long time since I posted something... Here is one from a month ago.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:34.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.