an idea for backing up photos - good idea?

[mrmeadows]

Is it a good idea to back up my photos at the service I pay to host my website and blog?

Here's the way I envision implementing this scheme. I use Lightroom for post processing. I've been backing up by writing the original raw files and Lightroom catalogs to 1) an external hard disk and 2) DVD disks which are stored separately. It occurs to me, however, that I'm paying for web hosting, and can have plenty of disk space there for backup with little or no extra cost. If I adopt this backup method, I would export from Lightroom 1) each original image file, 2) the sidecar file containing changes to each image's metadata and 3) the Lightroom catalog for those images. Then I would ftp all these files to the hosting service, just as I now ftp galleries, flash slide shows, blog entries, etc. Of course the backups would be uploaded to a main folder on the host different from the folders containing other types of files (but that's just a housekeeping measure, not any additional security against loss). I would then rely on the backup procedures and capabilities of the web hosting service, and, in case of loss at my end, I could download the lost files from the web.

What do you think are the pros and cons of the scheme I've outlined? Are there tweaks to it that would improve it?

I'm also aware of some alternatives which I am rejecting, at least for the purpose of posing a specific question for discussion. For examples: 1) Dropbox or Amazon or Google or other file storage or cloud service which typically provide nowhere near as much (free) disk space as I am already paying for; 2) Photoshelter which is an excellent service, but which is expensive unless one also gets a lot of use from its hosting and sales facilities, which I don't anticipate utilizing.

--- Mike

[Lauffray]

Well it seems there's a fair amount of manual intervention to do that. I've been looking at CrashPlan for some backups, for about 4$/month crashplan+ gives you unlimited storage but for one computer.
You're already paying for your hosting that makes sense, but I've heard very good things about CrashPlan's client for backup/restore

[mabelsound]

I have been thinking about Carbonite...$59/year for unlimited space, automatic backup of all your photos. I presently have two redundant 1TB external drives as backups, but what if the house burns down?

[rxmd]

Here in Kyrgyzstan I have a little home appliance type server with a 2TB hard drive that I use as a secondary storage on my home network, and it runs CrashPlan for automatic backups. I copy files to the server over the network, and they get backed up automatically and continuously. Neat and no manual intervention required.

At home I have a LTO tape drive.

[Lauffray]

How are you liking CrashPlan rxmd ? I haven't subscribed yet, but I like the automatic backup and constant monitoring, basically I wouldn't need to do anything. Plus it's encrypted I understand

[Phil_F_NM]

I keep a few external harddrives, duplicate most of my work between my laptop and desktop but my main archive is a 4TB RAID5. I don't have any automatic backup setup yet but that's not a big deal as I back things up manually at least once a week and have complete control of all my data' part of which is off site.

Of course, there IS the trunk full of about 160lbs of negatives...

Phil Forrest

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by mrmeadows

Is it a good idea to back up my photos at the service I pay to host my website and blog?

Coming from a technical background, and knowing how the industry is plagued with ADD, short-attention spans, and clueless/incompetent VPs, I have to say that it is in theory a not too-bad idea, but as far as reliability is concerned, it is a recipe for heartbreak waiting to crack within the next 5-10 years.

I would do it as an extra precaution, but never as the solution.

[Bill Clark]

I back up my photos on portable bus powered external hard drives.

Western Digital item like this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ential_SE.html

The one item I would be concerned, backing up on an internet business/site, is what happens if the place you store them goes out of business?

My workflow is using the above USB portable external hard drives. I don't keep any photos on computer internal hard drives. I create DNG files from the RAW and make three copies of both files. I do the JPEGs as well however, it's the RAW/DNG files I want to backup.

Works for me.

Hope it helps you!

[ramosa]

Originally Posted by mabelsound

I have been thinking about Carbonite...$59/year for unlimited space, automatic backup of all your photos. I presently have two redundant 1TB external drives as backups, but what if the house burns down?

yea, you really need something offsite. i have all of my photos backed up twice at home and once offsite (i.e., i leave a portable drive at work). the carbonite idea sure would make it easy ...

[Keith]

I only just got around to getting an external hard drive and backing up all my images ... until now I've been trusting the hard drive in my eight year old PC!

Cloud storage is great if you have the bandwidth ... which I don't.

[astro8]

Originally Posted by Keith

I only just got around to getting an external hard drive and backing up all my images ... until now I've been trusting the hard drive in my eight year old PC!

It seems we both like to live dangerously.

...maybe it's the 'She'll be right, mate' aussie attitude, forever the optimists!

[RObert Budding]

Originally Posted by Lauffray

How are you liking CrashPlan rxmd ? I haven't subscribed yet, but I like the automatic backup and constant monitoring, basically I wouldn't need to do anything. Plus it's encrypted I understand

I've been backing up 5 different PCs with CrashPlan for over a year. It works perfectly.

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.

Coming from a technical background, and knowing how the industry is plagued with ADD, short-attention spans, and clueless/incompetent VPs, I have to say that it is in theory a not too-bad idea, but as far as reliability is concerned, it is a recipe for heartbreak waiting to crack within the next 5-10 years.

I would do it as an extra precaution, but never as the solution.

Originally Posted by Bill Clark

I back up my photos on portable bus powered external hard drives.

Western Digital item like this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ential_SE.html

The one item I would be concerned, backing up on an internet business/site, is what happens if the place you store them goes out of business?

My workflow is using the above USB portable external hard drives. I don't keep any photos on computer internal hard drives. I create DNG files from the RAW and make three copies of both files. I do the JPEGs as well however, it's the RAW/DNG files I want to backup.

Works for me.

Hope it helps you!

It is still essentially like the cloud. You have no control over any of the services. They can be hacked and stolen. They can suffer a Ddos and be held ransom. They can go out of business without warning. The prices can probably go up with only a notice and option to opt out; they will no doubt still have your photos. What happens if the entire internet goes down, or becomes very unreliable? In today's world, that is a real world possibility as the i'net is considered an accepted likely target for our enemies in the event of war.

If you can live with all of that, or there is no other option, perhaps.

I'm not even sure I would recommend it as another option for backup.

[Bill Clark]

We've had lots of clouds here in Minnesota in May! 9.34" of rain so far in May!

Now that's a lot of clouds!

Hope you had a wonderful Memorial Holiday.

[charjohncarter]

I use print files for my negatives. It has worked for me for 45 years.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by astro8

It seems we both like to live dangerously.

...maybe it's the 'She'll be right, mate' aussie attitude, forever the optimists!

Speaking of living dangerously my eight year old PC has shut itself down twice today ... all on its own!

I have this insane need to take it right to the end of its useful life before abandoning it and switching to my new system ... which is still sitting in its boxes in the corner!

[Bill Pierce]

I’ve been on the road with little time for sleep, much less the forum. I thank all of you who have kept the site rolling with some good threads.

As to backing up and storing images, it’s always evolving. The next storage device will probably be memory cards not dissimilar from the ones we now use in digital cameras but with very great storage capacities. ’Til then, long term storage of a lot of images is probably best done on RAID systems, banks of hard discs that automatically produce a set of duplicates so that when one disc goes down you still have one copy of all your images and have only to set up a replacement disc to bring your system up to snuff. Hard discs can and do fail, but they certainly don’t degenerate as CD’s and DVD’s can.

Having seen all the above lose images, I think a RAID system is imperative for folks who have a lot of images to store. Us old folks have a lifetime of film scanned in fairly big files alongside our relatively recent digital work. And if we’re old and professional, we are also storing pictures we might have thrown out if we hadn’t taken them for other people. It’s a terrabyte world.

And I don’t think it’s foolish to have an off site storage system also in case of fire, theft or an entire RAID system imploding because the gods have decided to punish you.

Most of the folks I know use one of the WeibeTech RAID systems. I first saw small Weib units being used to store motion picture footage by folks who needed to work on their “footage” while they were traveling. I’m told they were also used by the military. One interesting device they make is the UltraDoc, a device that accepts single hard discs, bare drives that are smaller and less expensive than discs in hard drive enclosures with connection ports, power connections, e.t.c.. Here’s an independent review of the device that can be the basis of a good off-site storage system.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS...ech-ultradock/

I think the RAID system and off-site back up is a good solution for folks who have a lot of images to store. I would recommend hard drives over CD’s and DVD’s for storage of smaller volumes of images. The important thing is to have more than one copy of each image. As to the “Cloud…” I’m probably like some crazy who doesn’t trust his savings to the Banks and the Stock Market. Ooops, in some cases that may not be so crazy.

[kuzano]

I keep all my photos redundantly 1) in the computer and 2) on a small hard drive that I carry at all times in my shirt pocket.

My reasoning.... If I take a bullet to the heart, I don't think the drive is going to deflect the bullet, and I don't think I'll be worrying too much about the data loss.

Why is this such a big issue?

And as for the "cloud", what about the day you wake up and there are no clouds. Have you ever tried to contact the owners of a web site that shut down sometime between 9 PM on Sunday nite and 7AM on Monday morning.

Waiting for the "big one" and the EMP that follows. I have a pool going .... Date, Time, and country....Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, N Korea or any other enemies we make in the next 6 months...Oh.. Syria, do they have nukes?

[sol33]

I agree that multiple hard drives are the way to go. But don't underestimate the importance of offsite backups. Your house could burn down, a crazy neighbour in your aparmenthouse might flood your flat or your computers and hard drives might be stolen. Which is what happend to Francis Ford Coppola in 2007.

That offsite backup could well be a cloud. It is probably a good idea to encrypt your data though. It is an easy option to store your backup on another continent too if you are worried about EMP. As long as the cloud doesn't disapear the same day you loose your hard drives there shouldn't be too much of a problem...

[Aristophanes]

Originally Posted by mabelsound

I have been thinking about Carbonite...$59/year for unlimited space, automatic backup of all your photos. I presently have two redundant 1TB external drives as backups, but what if the house burns down?

Carbonite owns Phanfare.

www.phanfare.com

[River Dog]

You could stick a wifi NAS server in a friendly neighbour's house and you reciprocate. Technically, it's offsite.

[Aristophanes]

I keep all my digital photos and videos on 2 separate drives locally, and have a master, redundant backup as well through the MacOS Time Machine. I currently use separate hard drives for all, but a looking into:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-.../RAID/Desktop/

All my film photography is scanned, negs sleeved archivally, photos in traditional albums (lousy ones tossed), larger ones death with appropriately. The filing cabinet is metal and somewhat fire resistant. Best I can do. Digital backups then become the last line of defense.

Lately I've become a big fan of photo books, especially for digital prints because the book's restricted size obviates large prints. Photobooks lend the,selves to a narrative, can be of fantastic quality, and are likely to be read through more than individual photos in years past when I am gone. Printed on acid-free, archival quality stock, they are the best deal in keeping memories and transferring them inter-generationally IMO. They can also be stored faithfully as PDF's.

Digital files and photo books are stored offsite in 2 ISO formats: JPEG and PDF. They are the only formats I trust to be around in 50 years in a recognizable, accessible mode. They have international and widespread commercial buy-in. I see no point in keeping RAW and TIFF's of such large sizes once editing is done. RAW and TIFF stay local, but not online. It's an economy and bandwidth thing at the expense of fidelity. Life is full of tradeoffs.

Everything digital goes into Aperture (Mac). Archiving is done chronologically and Aperture has a plug-in straight to Phanfare. Once a Project or Album is completed and local backup done, it's uploaded. I do this about every 3 days. Because I use a photo-specific archival solution, I can organize the presentation for public or family viewing, and organize it to closely mimic what I have in Aperture chronologically. The exacts same is possible in LR.

I use Phanfare for offsite storage because of the excellent video storage and they (Carbonite) use Amazon S3 servers (Dropbox and SmugMug amongst many others also use Amazon S3). Calling it 'the Cloud" is falling into the conventional wisdom trap. They are digital archives using the one feature digitization that makes digital economically viable; effortless copying and storage redundancies turned into commodity. Yes you have to have some faith in a corporate entity to maintain the system and its integrity, but that's how economies work. It's $100/year. Pocket change.

Frankly, the dedicated photo archiving sites probably have the best solutions. They know photos. They are file format familiar and their corporate focus is on preserving memories not just bits. I think there is value i that. And they take responsibility under contract for the back-end. More time for me to photograph.

I hope that contributes to the discussion.

[sol33]

The problem with simplistic cloud services like Phanfare is that you are no longer in a position to control the access to your images. A rouge employee of the software vendor or the cloud provider, a hacker or even a judge in a foreign country may all access your images without your consent and/or knowledge. This is not an issue for family photos, but I imagine it may be an issue for a professional photographer.