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Old 06-18-2008   #41
Erik van Straten
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Michael,

Yes, Peter at CRR did also work on my cameras as well. He made a fungus-infected IIIg finder work like new, after Leica in Solms returned it to me saying repair was impossible, because they had no parts for replacements.

Erik.
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Old 06-19-2008   #42
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Woods metal

A little conjecture based on a very little experience of hand-made jewellery and a etching processes.

The piece to be engraved and filled would be painted first. I don’t know if the original black is ‘simple’ enamel or stove enamel.

If it were to be engraved chemically it would be covered with a ’stopper’ coat first. This prevents the acid from damaging the paint. (However, I do not think chemical etching was used on brass, it is more suitable for ferrous metals (?).)

If it were to be engraved mechanically it would probably have some protective coating of some sort.

The etched piece then has the filler run into the etching and the excess removed. As mentioned elsewhere this is done at around 150f. One has to assume that the original paint process used can cope with this temperature. If not, there must be another protective coating in use. Stove enamelling would survive this temperature but the high temperatures used in the paint baking process could distort the piece (?).

When the metal has cooled the piece can be buffed to clean any protective coating off and put a shine on lettering and background.

As I may have mentioned before, Peter at CRR has re-heated lettering on a camera of mine and brought the lettering back to life but I must emphasise that he considers it a bit of risky business and we only went ahead because the camera’s cosmetic condition was not of prime importance.

I imagine there is someone out there who has more experience than I and can tell me I am talking a load of rubbish!

Michael
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Old 06-19-2008   #43
Erik van Straten
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Michael,

Thank you for this very intersting information. There must have been some acid-etching stuff in the game indeed, while often the paint around the lettering is eaten away, making the number on Leica I's often hard to read.
The enamel on Leica I's is in my opnion a single coat of baked enamel, but on Leica II's and III's it was a double or a triple coat. That's the reason why the finish of Leica II's an III's is normally in a much better condition than the finish of the Leica I's.
It is however hard to believe that the markings where etched in stead of being engraved.
Maybe there is someone reading this stuff who really knows how things went, but the people that actually used this technique in actually producing the objects we are talking about may no longer be with us.

Erik.
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Old 06-19-2008   #44
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Erik,

Woods Metal
This may be a case of the blind leading the blind. I have to talk to Peter next week, I'll take the opportunity to ask him if he knows more.

Shutter release collars
Time for a beauty parade. When I have the time I'll try and post some photos of different versions. Not including the later IIIc type pattern. Perhaps you could do the same?

Michael
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Old 06-22-2008   #45
Dralowid
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And another:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...1&d=1214144835

22XXX. This is a I converted to IIIa pre-war. Seen service with the press in Northern Ireland. It was passed on to me in the '70s and attended to last year by CRR. Flash sync removed, re-covered with their less expensive vulcanite alternative and rebuilt. Lettering on top reheated to improve legibility. Particularly unusual in that the shutter speed dial appears to be nickel (can only really be seen inside and on close up).

Despite the wear one of the best Summars I have and the camera operates faultlessly.

You may question spending money on a camera in this condition but it's history, mostly documented, justifies the decision.

Michael

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 06-10-2010 at 15:02.
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Old 06-22-2008   #46
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Dralowid, that must have been a very good Summar to get the barrel worn down to the brass. My feeling is when you find a lens with great glass, but lots of mechanical wear, it must have been a really good specimen, and got heavily used.

The camera dials all look very much nickel in comparison to the chrome of the lens.
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Old 06-22-2008   #47
Erik van Straten
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Michael,

CRR did a wonderful job with the vulcanite of your camera. It looks very good. Unfortunately the vulcanite on all my Leicas is still excellent, so I cannot try the covering of CRR. I talked to Peter about covering my 2003 MP with the same material. He said it could be done. However, recently I've tried Aki Asahi's 4032 ($18) and the result is so fantastic, that I've decided to leave it on the camera for a while. The stuff Leica themselves put on the camera is the most terrible rubbish on this planet. What a shame to put that kind of ... on an expensive camera like that.
Your Leica III is from the late thirties. One can see that from the shape of the frame around the viewfinder and from the placing of the "DRP" marking.
I love the release guard! Never saw one like that before.
I would like to make pictures of my shutter release guards, but a. I think they are not very special and b. I do not have a digital camera.
The Summar is a wonderful, very much underrated lens. It is however prone to flare. I would like to have a coated one. Coated Summars do exist.

Erik.

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Old 06-23-2008   #48
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Apologies, the shutter release collar is of my making...from cycle valve parts.

Michael
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Old 06-24-2008   #49
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Apologies, the shutter release collar is of my making...from cycle valve parts.
Can you make one for me too?

Erik.
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Old 06-25-2008   #50
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Erik,

It is easy. Go into any cycle shop and ask them if they have any of the rings that hold the valves into the inner tube fitting. Chose some that have appropriate knurling and take them home and check that the thread is right. Then you can start filing or sawing with a hacksaw. After a couple of disasters you will make something you are proud of!

Most of them are brass covered with a thin nickel coating.

Michael
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My Latest Conversion Find - 1945 Leica IIIC to IIIFBD
Old 08-23-2008   #51
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Cool My Latest Conversion Find - 1945 Leica IIIC to IIIFBD

I just received this in the mail today from an estate sale find here in Florida......



1945 Leica IIIC to IIIFBD conversion, not sure if it had full race bearings like my other one had, but more than likely so, it`s like EX++ condition, that`s been recovered by Camera Leather and has a professional engraving of the past owners name (I figure a US Army Officer) the really FUNNY part was when I opened the bottom of the camera it had a CANON POPUP spool in it!!!!!!!
(one of my many practices to make living everyday with a Leica IIIC easier - so that guy knew what he was doing when it comes to using a Leica the easy/fast way) - to me this camera was also a bargain at $188! BIN from evilbay
(my other Stepper IIIC to IIIF I think cost $150 and it`s an ex- Full Race K "Kugellager" shutter camera)

Camera needs a simple CLA and a missing shutter button collar, that`s all.......

Really this just goes to show there`s still some very interesting "stepped rewind" conversions out there for sale, so keep looking!

Tom

PS: I`ve had like 3 emails already asking me to sell this camera - But this camera`s already as good as gone now, Leo`s always wanted a Stepper/Conversion so I promised him the next one I get will go to him.......I`ve got this one going out to trade back my old 1946 Leica IIIC #3974xx I bought from Jack`s Camera last year, so you`ll see that again soon posted here at RFF
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Old 08-28-2008   #52
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Nice one Tom,

Helps me with another 'rule of conversions' (if there are such timgs!)

Pre IIIc cameras converted to something akin to IIIfs have replacement top housings (not top plates) that are higher than the original around the shutter dial and have the flash numbers engraved into them.

IIIc cameras converted to IIIfs have a plate with the flash numbers attached to the original housing.

Am I right?

Michael
(Nice black III with good paint and unusually chrome fittings just arrived. Seized solid but can be brought back from the dead. Will post pics in a few days)
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Old 05-04-2009   #53
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I have a question on the IIIc to IIIf conversions. Were there any done to IIIf RDST standards? I just picked up what I thought was a IIIf on ebay, mostly for the nikkor 50/2 attached to it, as I already have a IIIf BD and a IIIg. It arrived today, and as I was looking over it the serial # puts it as a 1949 IIIc. (per the head bartender) but it has black numbers on the flash sync plate and a self timer on the front.

It's actually in pretty good condition, and I was just going to sell it on, but I think I might keep it after all... (oh no, I've become a collector! Don't tell my girlfriend.)
I'll post some pics in a few days, after my finals are over.
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Old 05-13-2009   #54
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This document that Eric posted a while back is particularly interesting. Does anyone have the prices for new Leica bodies in DMs for that period which I believe is early '50s? The comparison would be interesting.

Best

Michael
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Old 07-17-2009   #55
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I was wondering if anybody can shed light as to what this camera is? Is it simply a IIIc converted to IIIf BD/ST? If so was this a common conversion? Any thoughts are appreciated! Regards to all...

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Old 07-17-2009   #56
Vince Lupo
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Don't know how common or uncommon they are.

Here is my IIIc/IIIf ST black dial conversion (with horizontal sharkskin kids!), with Leicavit and 85/1.5 Summarex.

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Old 07-28-2009   #57
Erik van Straten
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This is my user Leica II, a post-war conversion (without synch) with SCNOO rapidwinder.

Erik.

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Old 07-28-2009   #58
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Old 07-28-2009   #59
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Old 08-01-2009   #60
Dralowid
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http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...1&d=1249145455

Who knows how long this must have spent under water in it's long long life...

Anyway, a user now. The early Elmar seems worse for flare than later versions.

Michael

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Old 08-01-2009   #61
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Sorry, posted on the wrong thread!

Michael
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Old 08-01-2009   #62
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http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...5&d=1249145853

Doesn't look too bad from a distance Leica I converted to II postwar no sync, no blanking plate...unfortunately the blinds are shot, the rangefinder needs a new beam splitter and I am not going to spend the effort because someone has repainted it not particularly well! Oh, and I forgot, the lens barrel is scored by a runaway ball bearing and the retaining rings within are cross theaded!

Shame

Michael
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Old 08-01-2009   #63
Erik van Straten
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Nice camera, Michael, that Leica I. If my information is correct, it dates from 1928. It seems to me that it has been updated at some time. It originally had the mushroom release and the lower profile wind knob, like this one, nr. 10941. Your wind knob does not have the same fine knurling as the rewind knob.

Erik.

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Old 08-01-2009   #64
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http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...1&d=1249148967

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Old 08-01-2009   #65
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...5&d=1249145853

Doesn't look too bad from a distance Leica I converted to II postwar no sync, no blanking plate...unfortunately the blinds are shot, the rangefinder needs a new beam splitter and I am not going to spend the effort because someone has repainted it not particularly well! Oh, and I forgot, the lens barrel is scored by a runaway ball bearing and the retaining rings within are cross theaded!

Shame

Michael
Can the repaint be removed? It often can, with acetone. CRR can install a new beamsplitter. It is a very rare conversion, without the blanking plate. I presume the shell was still in great shape when the conversion was undertaken.

Erik.
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Old 08-01-2009   #66
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I suspect it has been stripped. The fittings are all virtually perfect and the vulcanite is good. Forget the lens. I don't quite know what to do with this camera, have talked to Peter at CCR about it and although we can certainly sort it out the finish is the issue. I thought beating it up a but might help!!! Rare indeed, who would convert an early I to a II in the fifties? If you look at the sheet of costs posted earlier in this thread it wouldn't have cost all that much more to go to a III or at least II sync. Whatever, to me at least, it is one of the prettiest of these postwar conversions.

Michael
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Old 08-01-2009   #67
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
I suspect it has been stripped. The fittings are all virtually perfect and the vulcanite is good. Forget the lens. I don't quite know what to do with this camera, have talked to Peter at CCR about it and although we can certainly sort it out the finish is the issue. I thought beating it up a but might help!!! Rare indeed, who would convert an early I to a II in the fifties? If you look at the sheet of costs posted earlier in this thread it wouldn't have cost all that much more to go to a III or at least II sync. Whatever, to me at least, it is one of the prettiest of these postwar conversions.

Michael
Well, the conversion II I showed in this thread was originally a Standard, the same story as with yours. I think, in the fifties there was a great demand for camera's, but people didn't have much money. A coupled rangefinder added was already a substantial improvement.

Erik.
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Old 08-02-2009   #68
Erik van Straten
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This camera started life as a chrome IIIa in 1936. After the war it has been converted into a black IIasyn. Despite all those troubles, it was appearently almost never used afterwards.

Erik.
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Old 08-02-2009   #69
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Old 08-02-2009   #70
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Old 08-02-2009   #71
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
I suspect it has been stripped. The fittings are all virtually perfect and the vulcanite is good. Forget the lens. I don't quite know what to do with this camera, have talked to Peter at CCR about it and although we can certainly sort it out the finish is the issue. I thought beating it up a but might help!!! Rare indeed, who would convert an early I to a II in the fifties? If you look at the sheet of costs posted earlier in this thread it wouldn't have cost all that much more to go to a III or at least II sync. Whatever, to me at least, it is one of the prettiest of these postwar conversions.

Michael
We must also keep in mind that in the fifties repair of the oldest camera's no longer was done under warranty. So customers were almost obliged to convert their old Leicas. That's the reason so many are around. To have an old camera converted was evidently cheaper than buying a new one.

Erik.
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Old 08-02-2009   #72
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Erik,
You have some interesting cameras. Thanks for sharing them with us.
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Old 08-02-2009   #73
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Erik,

How can you tell your IIIa started life as a chrome camera? Is there any physical evidence or are you referring to the serial number? Not doubting, just curious.

Michael
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Old 08-02-2009   #74
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Erik,

How can you tell your IIIa started life as a chrome camera? Is there any physical evidence or are you referring to the serial number? Not doubting, just curious.

Michael
Black IIIa's are exremely rare, practically non existant, exept of course conversions, like yours.

Yes, my reference is only the serial number.

Erik.

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Old 08-02-2009   #75
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Hi Erik,

Another question

Is 10491 yours? Do you have a picture of the base plate catch? Is it a black centre with nickel hoop?

Nice camera

Michael
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Old 08-02-2009   #76
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Point taken about original black IIIa. I should have thought that through myself!

I for one doubt their existence. the same applies to IIIb.

Michael
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Old 08-02-2009   #77
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Hi Michael,

I do not have a camera with that number. Were did you see it?

Erik.
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Old 08-02-2009   #78
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Yes, after the III and the Standard Leitz stopped producing black camera's. There is only 1 black IIIc known. They resumed producing black camera's with the MP and after that with the M2, of wich I own the 39th, on wich I am very proud. There are some black M3's in between, but only a few.

That is why the post-war black conversions are so very interesting to me.

Erik.

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Old 08-02-2009   #79
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Sorry 10941 !!!!

You posted a pic in reply to my posting pics of my early 'I' on this thread.

Michael
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Old 08-02-2009   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Sorry 10941 !!!!

You posted a pic in reply to my posting pics of my early 'I' on this thread.

Michael
No, that is only a picture from my archives. I keep an archive for reference purposes on interesting cameras.

Erik.
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