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View Poll Results: Did you check your M8 for "Vertical Line" problem?
I am using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem but it does not exist. 35 25.74%
I am using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem and it exists. 60 44.12%
I am not using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem but it does not exist. 7 5.15%
I am not using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem but it exists. 11 8.09%
I have never check my M8 for this problem. 23 16.91%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-27-2010   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b.espahbod View Post
M8 10702 is fixed this & problem will never happen but for the 10701 its still a ticking bomb
From what I can see the 10702 is the chrome version, and the 10701 is the black version.... are there other differences?

If not how can it be that the vertical line problem is fixed in the chrome but not the black version?

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Old 01-27-2010   #42
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Well, Jim... As it happened, my chrome 10702 DID have the problem, and the camera was fixed at LeicaUSA last July. My black 10701 did not have the line problem then, but recently I've seen a hot pixel appear at higher ISO, so I need to look into that further.
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Old 01-27-2010   #43
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If you download a program called crossover it will work.

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Too bad Pixelfixer doesn't run on Mac.
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Old 01-30-2010   #44
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Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
I full CLA should have gotten you a certificate for a full year guaranty - I am starting to get the feeling somebody over there has taken a dislike against you....
I thought so, but I can't get a confirmation from them about sensor replacement (which is the worst case fix, correct?)... [They say that they don't know for sure what's wrong with my camera, even after sending in a number of picture samples and explained my case more than once to each person I contacted.]

And without confirmation, I really don't want to waste shipping cost (nearly $100 from the west coast/insured) + a few months waiting without my camera, just to find out that it's going to cost me a lot more (high hundreds, if not thousand of dollars?) for sensor replacement--in which case I will refuse and buy an M9 instead.

Now, I just try to shoot my M8 at low ISO to avoid the line... and save up for an M9...

Leica USA really disappointed me with their customer service, for just this simple issue of letting me know clearly what I should do, and possible costs [or whether it's covered under CLA warranty] in my case. I don't see how it should be too complicated for any of them to find out.
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Old 02-06-2010   #45
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Has any M8.2 been reported for this problem or did Leica tighten the QC with the introduction of the M8.2?

I am on the verge of getting a used M8.2 and feel a bit uncertain regarding the reported issues.
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Old 02-06-2010   #46
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Menos, I have not heard of M8.2 having this line problem. But in any case I would advise buying a used digital-M from a good dealer who will offer a warranty and provide good customer service. When I finally heard about this, and discovered my chrome M8 had it (took a careful search of full-scale TIFFs having no noise reduction), my dealer PopFlash arranged service at Leica and acted as intermediary in shipping and getting the repair at no charge and upgrades done.
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Old 02-06-2010   #47
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It seems that the very first batch of M8s that came out were flawed in various ways. The sensor was one, high ISO performance was another, banding and moire effects, also when very long exposures were used. All through 2007 it was 50-50 you got a proper M8 but by the end of that year the new batch was better. I never had a single problem with my M8 and I have had it for 2,5 years (and over 5000 pics). Covered or not by a guarantee one should definitely send the camera for repair, problems like banding will only get worse.
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Old 02-06-2010   #48
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Doug and Symeon, this sounds encouraging.
I am sure, to check the camera closely.

Do Leica batteries come with a sufficient charge out of the box, to do a few dozen test frames? I would buy a second battery anyway and I am afraid, the dealer is rather careless about fully charging second hand camera batteries.

I bring a computer and plan, to scrutinize the files closely.
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Old 02-07-2010   #49
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I bought the one, I saw at the dealer - it is sweet so far!
Everything, that has been reported about the M8 seems to fit (including the downsides as forbidden ISO 640 and rough shutter release feel,…).

It does not show a dead pixel line or unusual banding in black frames so far.

I like it so far.
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Old 02-07-2010   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Menos, I have not heard of M8.2 having this line problem. But ....
I had to do without my M8.2 for six weeks

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Old 02-07-2010   #51
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After being treated like that why would you then spend 7000 more with them for a M9? I know leicas are (were) special but there are limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkspark View Post
I thought so, but I can't get a confirmation from them about sensor replacement (which is the worst case fix, correct?)... [They say that they don't know for sure what's wrong with my camera, even after sending in a number of picture samples and explained my case more than once to each person I contacted.]

And without confirmation, I really don't want to waste shipping cost (nearly $100 from the west coast/insured) + a few months waiting without my camera, just to find out that it's going to cost me a lot more (high hundreds, if not thousand of dollars?) for sensor replacement--in which case I will refuse and buy an M9 instead.

Now, I just try to shoot my M8 at low ISO to avoid the line... and save up for an M9...

Leica USA really disappointed me with their customer service, for just this simple issue of letting me know clearly what I should do, and possible costs [or whether it's covered under CLA warranty] in my case. I don't see how it should be too complicated for any of them to find out.
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Old 02-07-2010   #52
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Thanks, Jeicob, I'm now better informed!
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Old 03-04-2010   #53
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Quote:
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forbidden ISO 640
Here's some Nukular Dispair ISO 2500


M8 + 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-asph E46 @ ultra ultra super duper forbidden ISO 2500
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Old 04-07-2010   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
Here's some Nukular Dispair ISO 2500


M8 + 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-asph E46 @ ultra ultra super duper forbidden ISO 2500
Thanks for the proof Gabriel.

After using the M8.2 now for a few weeks, I have learned, that the sensor reacts very different from my R-D1 or the Nikon DSLRs, I use (or pushed BW film for that matter).

With just one stop underexposure, the digital M can show some really nasty banding and noise, where other cameras are behaving more gently.

Exposed properly and even ISO 2500 does provide magnificent quality, which is a bonus, but harder to nail.
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Old 04-08-2010   #55
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The vertical line only happens when you take a photo that's drastically underexposed and try and crank the exposure up in image editing software. M8 .dng files deliver fantastic headroom- better than scanned B&W film, based on my experience with my M8 so far. If you're having to manipulate shots to that extreme then you need to find better lit subjects to shoot, or fork out for a Noctilux.
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Old 04-08-2010   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_c View Post
The vertical line only happens when you take a photo that's drastically underexposed and try and crank the exposure up in image editing software. M8 .dng files deliver fantastic headroom- better than scanned B&W film, based on my experience with my M8 so far. If you're having to manipulate shots to that extreme then you need to find better lit subjects to shoot, or fork out for a Noctilux.
Tim, I have to disagree respectfully to both points.
The vertical line issue does not occur on all cameras - my M8.2 does not show it (I tested in the shop BEFORE buying with a laptop and pushing a underexposed file in Lightroom, to verify this).

I urge everyone, who buys a M8, M8.2, M9, to do the same. There are quite some stories from buyers, who find out about this and other easy, to check for issues AFTER they bought the camera and have a monthly long hassle, to get the issues repaired.

The digital M clearly cannot be bought without seen!

Secondly, the digital M gives a lot less headroom for pushing than BW film or other cameras, I used so far for low light shots.

I can push M8.2 files semi comfortable (but not safe) for usually one stop, before banding and strong shadow noise become uncomfortable.

I shoot Tri-X 400 in low light, metering at ISO 3200 or even ISO 6400, processing with TMax developer, scanning on a flatbed and push shadows for another one or two stops, if needed !

The digital M is far from coming close, to deliver such robust data!

The EPSON R-D1 is another camera, which delivers much more robust files for pushing, while I shoot it most comfortably at ISO 800 and push from there, it can be used under controlled lighting at ISO 1600 and pushed two stops further.
It shows not an as clean exposure, as the M8.2, when perfectly exposed at this high ISO speed, as it will show grain similar to film, but further pushing ALWAYS gave me more headroom, than the more fragile files from the M8.2.

I will not talk about the Nikon D3 sensor here.
The M8.2 delivers beautifully, but boy, should you expose spot on or loose the shadows.

For low light (night time shooting in dark streets), pushed BW film is still king, right with the D3. The EPSON R-D1 comes quite close, while the M8.2 really doesn't like this kind of light and needs more often a few stops more light or a heavy contrast processing, hiding the ugly shadows (like in the excellent ISO2500 image above btw ).
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Old 04-08-2010   #57
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I will agree with Menos' diplomatic first few comments.

The bright line on my chrome M8 occurred on every shot (ISO was set to 640 throughout), and in normal daylight exposures with no manipulation in post. Most easily visible in shadow/darker areas of the image. But I discovered it only after reading about it and pixel-peeping my TIFF files, some 6 months after purchase. My dealer PopFlash responded immediately and handled the communications with Leica to get it fixed.

After finding the line in my chrome M8 I immediately searched for the same proplem in the files from my black M8, but it was clean.
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Old 04-13-2010   #58
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Well, shoot. The line has now made an appearance in my M8's files. Guess it's time to ship it to Solms. This might be the Summer of Film for me.
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Old 04-14-2010   #59
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Maggie, sorry to hear of your M8's illness. Through my dealer, mine went to New Jersey for the line and also for the shutter and viewfinder upgrades, taking from May 27 through July 5 including shipping time. Not too bad I thought, but hope yours is faster.
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Hi Maggie
Old 04-14-2010   #60
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Hi Maggie

Did the lines just start appearing, or did you just start noticing them?

At what ISO, and exposures, if you recall? Thanks, and sorry to hear about this, I hope they rush your fix.

Quote:
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Well, shoot. The line has now made an appearance in my M8's files. Guess it's time to ship it to Solms. This might be the Summer of Film for me.
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Old 04-14-2010   #61
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Looking through my ISO 1250 shots, now that I'm looking for it, I see it as early as February 2009, Ted. It's started to creep into underexposed ISO 640 shots now. Here's an ISO 1250 shot with it:

Chocolatini At Blue Orchid, February, 2009
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Old 04-14-2010   #62
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Thanks Maggie, I can barely see the line in your photo. Am going to re-check mine at 640, 1250, and 2500 underexposed.
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Old 04-14-2010   #63
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Quote:
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Thanks Maggie, I can barely see the line in your photo. Am going to re-check mine at 640, 1250, and 2500 underexposed.
barely is an understatement. the line in the middle is pretty prevalent in her photo. it is the first thing i saw in that photo.
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Old 04-14-2010   #64
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M8.2 @1250, underexposed (cropped at both sides)
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Old 08-28-2010   #65
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Here we go again

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Old 08-28-2010   #66
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hmm, where's jaapv? He seemed to know what serial #'s got free sensor upgrades, and which one just needed some parts.
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Old 08-28-2010   #67
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Jeicob, sorry to see you have this problem; I expect Leica can fix this at no charge to you, and extend the warranty one year. Is this new problem in the same camera as the one last April? What happened later with that camera?

The interesting thing about this instance is that there is a hot pixel on the line about 20% of the way down from the top, while the line goes from top edge to bottom edge. Some I've seen, if I remember correctly, that have a hot pixel, the line extends from the hot pixel to the edge in only one direction. And many do not have a visible hot pixel at all - mine did not; I don't see one on your previous problem example - and the line goes from edge to edge. The line on mine was blue...
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Old 08-29-2010   #68
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Here in Denmark I'm secured by a two year warranty, no problem (except perhaps for the goatskin cover and the 6 week of waiting - both for the second time in one year). It's the same camera and last time (December 2009) the sensor were replaced with a new one (came back dirty though).

The hot pixel in the previous picture is very near the bottom of the frame (so It's there).
The new picture is cropped for better visibility, but the line extent from edge to edge.

It starts with only a dead pixel showing up in more and more pictures, then it starts to make these lines (sometimes short, sometimes only on one side of dead pixel, sometimes from edge to edge) while the errors keeping coming more and more often. My last session had errors in say half the pictures. And I'm only use Phase One and don't have tools like Photoshop to correct any problems, so I'm kind of screwed.
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Old 08-29-2010   #69
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Lightroom/ACR automatically corrects for the problem. So if you only produce and examine your images in lightroom you'd never know you have the problem. Of course, if you can't see it what is the issue again?
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Old 08-29-2010   #70
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Quote:
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Lightroom/ACR automatically corrects for the problem. So if you only produce and examine your images in lightroom you'd never know you have the problem. Of course, if you can't see it what is the issue again?
Interesting! Didn't know that, but I think I'd like the problem fixed, visible or not... I use CaptureOne also, then open the TIFFs in shareware GraphicConverter.
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Old 08-29-2010   #71
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I had the problem and had to send the camera to Solms. They replaced the sensor or motherboard, I don't know for sure, and the camera now works fine. Well, a few months later the 6 bits sensor on the mount started to fail in recognizing my Summilux 35mm. The first lamp failed. I had to send the camera to Solms again, etc. But the vertical line problem was a problem known by Leica.
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Old 09-24-2010   #72
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Quote:
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Lightroom/ACR automatically corrects for the problem. So if you only produce and examine your images in lightroom you'd never know you have the problem. Of course, if you can't see it what is the issue again?
Is there something you have to specifically do in Lightroom to get rid of the dreaded "vertical line"? Because for me it's still there. I have the latest version of LR.

And just to be clear... is it the general consensus that this problem gets progressively worse? I bought an 8.2 hoping to avoid issues like this. My camera is having this problem with only @200 actuations! Boo!
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Old 09-24-2010   #73
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sharkytowers, don't look for a workaround, don't settle with the issue.

There is only one solution: send it in to Solms and have it taken care of.
When I bought my M8.2, I specifically searched for this issue and tried to force it, to show up in all known ways. I got lucky and picked a camera with an excellent sensor (mine doesn't show the also known different sensor half illumination in very high ISO).

As I understand it, Leica Solms acknowledges this issue as an sensor issue, to be solved under warranty. If the camera is out of warranty, ask nicely … if this doesn't work out, bite, scratch and swear and have it repaired.

If you bought the camera from a dealer, push the dealer to the issue, if from a private person, you are on your own with Leica, which shouldn't be less productive.

Good luck!
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Old 09-27-2010   #74
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New sensor and I'm back in buisness

Came back with a dirty sensor, but not as bad as last time.
Perhaps it's just me, but the rear panel has an unfamiliar look and feel to it
Any easy way to tell the M8 and M8.2 rear panels apart?

Guess what; my goat skin cover survived!
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Old 09-27-2010   #75
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Congratulations!
As far, as I am aware, there is no difference between the rear panels of the M8 and M8.2.
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Old 03-28-2011   #76
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Quote:
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hmm, where's jaapv? He seemed to know what serial #'s got free sensor upgrades, and which one just needed some parts.
How? I'd like to verify my M8's s/n.
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Old 01-31-2012   #77
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Hi all,

Any advice from you; I assume I need to send my M9 to Leica?

I discovered black/blue vertical lines on all my photos from outdoor session 30.01.2012 on my M9 s.n. 3834853, FW 1.162. The line starts aprox 1/3 from top and goes all the way down on left hand side of photos. All are night exposures with f/4 and 2- 30 s and ISO range from 160 to 1250. All are taken on uncompressed DNG only, and all photos, aprox 50 have this line.

After discovering this I did a series indoor with same card / lenses with formatted card. I used different level of lightning, ranging from ISO160 / 0,5s / f/2 to ISO1250 / 12s / f/11 and imported in LR 3.5. The lines do not appear on all, only on the low light photos (6 out of 26). There are also long exposure photos without lines.

I have also checked older low light photos without finding these lines.

Please see sample photos:
http://flyalf.wordpress.com/2012/01/...pes-on-photos/
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Old 01-31-2012   #78
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Yes, Alf, the M9 will need attention from Leica. They may only need to "map out" a bad pixel. I had two bad pixels on my M9 but they didn't produce lines. But on my M8 I had a 1-pixel line from top to bottom. Both cameras were fixed by Leica at no charge, with no indication of what they did to fix the problems. Best of luck!
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Old 02-02-2012   #79
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Thanks for advice. Now sent to Leica through retailer. But how to live without ?
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Old 02-03-2012   #80
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I don't own this camera but have been reading these M8 threads for a while. Between the IR/UV sensitivity and sensor issues, and their sluggish customer service, this camera is a way-overpriced dog. Reviews show no better IQ than any other APS-C camera, and it costs way more. It has more issues, and appears to be less durable, than any entry-level Japanese DSLR, the Canon Ti/Rebels, the Pentax K's, the Nikon D's - what have you, whose bodies are a fractuon of the price. The M8 should have been recalled by Leica, which is exactly what Nikon did when early D5000s had issues. Bit the bullet, took'em off the shelves, had them sent them back to the factory, fixed the issue, and sold them -below cost probably/guessing- as sub $500 body refurbs. I think it's a disgrace, personally. No - I don't own this camera. It's the last digital camera I'd ever consider purchasing, and you're welcome to flame away... be my guest.
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