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View Poll Results: Did you check your M8 for "Vertical Line" problem?
I am using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem but it does not exist. 35 25.74%
I am using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem and it exists. 60 44.12%
I am not using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem but it does not exist. 7 5.15%
I am not using my M8 extensively and I check it for the problem but it exists. 11 8.09%
I have never check my M8 for this problem. 23 16.91%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Bloody Vertical Line Problem
Old 01-15-2009   #1
secon
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Bloody Vertical Line Problem

I have faced with a huge vertical line problem with my Leica M8. I have 10 more months for guarantee so I sent it back. But since some other users reported the same problem for their copies I am very concerned in the long run. Even if they supply me a new one, I may not be sure about that it won't happen again in some time and if I am in a out of guarantee situation then this would make me really crazy.

I am thinking about what if almost all M8s have this vertical line problem but some will become apparent in the long run, when people use their M8s much more. I have used many DSLRs from Canon and Nikon and I did not suspect any such problem. I think we should determine how much per cent of M8s have this problem.

If any of you guys have any idea about this issue please let us know that. And users of M8, please check whether you have this problem. Since you need to check for it carefully in order to detect, maybe some of us do have this problem but they are not aware of it.

Respect,

Serkan
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Old 01-15-2009   #2
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That's interesting. I've seen a vertical line on mine in the lower right corner with high iso (2500) and severely underexposed. Otherwise it doesn't show up and obviously I try to avoid such conditions.
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Old 01-15-2009   #3
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Whatever the vertical line problem is. Do you mean the banding problem that can happen when you hava light directly from the front?
Could you please be more specific or direct me to some sample pictures?
Thank you.
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Old 01-15-2009   #4
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kipkeston: I think I had this one on high iso settings but recently another huge vertical line becomes apparent at all iso settings. And that was depressing. That's why I am concerned about in long run.

tom.w.bn.: I don't have the files with me right now. I may upload them but you can see some other examples in this forum with the "vertical line problem" tag. and that is not the banding problem. I also got banding problem but I think M8s already have that one and it only emerges in some certain situations.
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Old 01-15-2009   #5
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That's the dreaded but well known Leica M8 problem.
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Old 01-15-2009   #6
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well, i know that line... you'r m8 is pooched. they will more than likely replace it and if they don't, demand it.
it's a sensor problem that was prevalent in the first batch of m8's.
all the folks i know who had the issue ended up with a new m8, me included.
the good news is the replacement m8 they sent me worked flawlessly for a year and a half of daily use... heavy, daily use.
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Old 01-15-2009   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
That's the dreaded but well known Leica M8 problem.
here, let me fix that for you...
That's the dreaded but well known digital sensor problem.

I've been teaching a class on studio lighting this semester and just 2 weeks into it I've seen 3 cameras have sensor fails out of 2 classes of 10 students each from both nikon and canon and each camera was less than 6 months old.

Remember...digital cameras, no matter how many megapixels they can cram into them right now/how advanced we think they are, are still a young technology and are subject to these kinds of issues which is why warranties are important.
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Old 01-15-2009   #8
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I've seen 3 cameras have sensor fails out of 2 classes of 10 students each from both nikon and canon and each camera was less than 6 months old.
Oh no! Not flawless dirt-cheap it can leap off tall buildings, fly faster than a speeding bullet and X-ray vision Uber-Nikon! Is this the beginning of the end for Nikon?

Surely you must be lying and be on Leica's payroll
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Old 01-15-2009   #9
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Fix what for me?

The M8 (maybe only the early ones?) are notorious for this particular problem, and like emraphoto said, Leica will or at least should replace the camera regardless if it is under warranty or not. That problem is too present in the M8 line. Everybody knows it, Leica knows it.
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Old 01-15-2009   #10
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Some Nikon or Canon cameras may have this problem but I think it is not that common. If only early production M8s do exhibit this problem, Leica must have been call all this M8s back to Solms. But as Goldorak said, if even it is present in the M8 line now, that may be huge disaster for Leica. And also what if the problem emerges after your guarantee period is over? Do you have any idea how much Leica will charge you to replace M8 sensor?
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Old 01-15-2009   #11
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i may be wrong but i don't think it is a problem that comes on gradually... i think the sensor displays the problem or it doesn't. it may take you a while to notice, or it may take a certain circumstance to show it's face.

just send it off, email a file or two showing it to the person you have called and are holding accountable at leica (hint hint) and say you want it replaced. if you let them "check it out" or "try and fix it" it will be months before you see it. as well confirm all the items you sent off with the m8 as it goes back to leica. email it to said leica rep and make sure you get it all back.

it sucks to lose the camera for a while but in the long run you are going to want a new one. try and squeeze another year of warranty out of them.
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Old 01-15-2009   #12
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Emraphoto, this is not like that. I don't have a huge vertical line in my photos previously (after using it about a year). Maybe a few vertical line in high iso setting but not this one which can be detected in all iso settings. Recently, a huge vertical line which also have a light spot on it, has emerged. It seems this is a gradual problem and this makes me crazy about this camera.

I am considering to exchange my M8 (if they send me a new one and also in Turkey, guarantee agreement conditions do have a clause of sending new one if it can't be repaired in 30 days) with a M7 and film scanner.
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Old 01-16-2009   #13
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yeah, mine wasn't huge either... quite thin actually. but hey, when you are paying that kind of $ for a camera then it shouldn't be an issue.
i am sure they will have to replace it as the only fix possible is a new sensor.
good luck!
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Old 01-16-2009   #14
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Did some research about the vertical lines, took some photos to check it. No problem.
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Old 01-16-2009   #15
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Good for you Tom. Hope you don't see them in the future. Leica service called me today. He said he saw and reported the problem to SOlms and behaf of that problem he detect 3 dead pixels.

Does anyone have any idea about what Leica would do if the guarantee period over? They may stand back to their cameras after guarantee is over.
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Old 01-25-2009   #16
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Upgrade the shutter or something. Then it will be under warranty again. It's expensive (and a workaround that shouldn't be required), but the shutter is nice, too.
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Old 03-05-2009   #17
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I just sent my M8 in to Leica because of fluorescing pixels along with one dead pixel where a line extends through the image from. I discovered these artifacts after a recent shoot where I was shooting ISO 640 @ f2 in the darker regions of the image. The pixels show up as red, blue, and green spots in about half of the images.
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Old 03-17-2009   #18
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Is this an example of the Problem?
Voigtlander 12mm. M8, no warranty
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Old 03-21-2009   #19
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indeed,the issue is there. just noticed it yesterday and found this thread now.
camera is 2 weeks old, new rather. "my line" - perhaps we can call it - Miline
is just in the middle of the image area, like halving it. oh. yeah, really nice
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Old 03-21-2009   #20
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Quote:
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Is this an example of the Problem?
Voigtlander 12mm. M8, no warranty
at least he's pointing to it.
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Old 03-21-2009   #21
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M8 10702 is fixed this & problem will never happen but for the 10701 its still a ticking bomb
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Old 05-28-2009   #22
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I have 333XXXX sn M8, and have the same line problem, sent to Leica today
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Old 05-29-2009   #23
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I have 3107xxx with no blue line problem. Also have # 3101xxx that has a vertical one-pixel blue line from edge to edge about 2760 pixels to the right of the left edge of the horizontal frame. 640 ISO.

Not so visible with noise reduction in processing or with jpeg output, but with sharp no-noise reduction TIFFs it's most obvious in dark areas of the image seen at 100%. I've had the camera for over a year, but had never done this level of pixel-peeping until I heard about the blue line problem and set out to check my gear.

The M8 with that problem has just been sent to PopFlash, where I bought it as a "demo" with no warranty card, and they assure me they'll work it out. Good service. I enclosed with the bare camera body a CD with two original DNG files and processed matching TIFFs with orange arrows at each end of the line. I'll see if I can create and attach a 100% crop...
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Old 05-29-2009   #24
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Yes, same line.
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Old 05-29-2009   #25
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Endre, yours looks different... maybe some kind of banding?
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Old 06-16-2009   #26
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Quote:
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at least he's pointing to it.
Yea I know, it’s a bit weird aye.
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Old 06-16-2009   #27
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Quote:
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Is this an example of the Problem?
Voigtlander 12mm. M8, no warranty
No. In certain circumstances (bright highlight just on the edge of the image) every M8 will do this. There is no cure. Fortunately it does not happen too often. I saw it in three shots in 20.000
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Old 06-25-2009   #28
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Just receive my M8 after hot pixel-line repair from NJ, look like OK, shutter now is much smooth, no more clacked sound, interesting, they replaced CCD.
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way to test
Old 06-26-2009   #29
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way to test

What's the easiest way to test for this? I can't see it shooting in a variety of lighting situations, is it only seen in RAW? Does it show on the LCD at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
No. In certain circumstances (bright highlight just on the edge of the image) every M8 will do this. There is no cure. Fortunately it does not happen too often. I saw it in three shots in 20.000
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Old 08-02-2009   #30
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What's the easiest way to test for this? I can't see it shooting in a variety of lighting situations, is it only seen in RAW? Does it show on the LCD at all?
The green bloom should appear on the LCD, the line won't, it is 1 pixel or 2 wide, so a walk across a developed RAW file shot at higher ISO's viewed at 200% is the way to look.

If you are out of warranty I was told it would be $1500 to replace the sensor in NJ.
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Old 08-02-2009   #31
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There seem to be a couple different types or variations of the line problem. See my details in post #23. Since then it's gone back to Leica USA and got a new sensor, with thanks to Tony at PopFlash for handling it smoothly. You can bet I closely examined current 100% TIFFs having no noise reduction and assured myself there's no problem now.
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Old 12-21-2009   #32
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Mine seems 100% as well since coming home.
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Old 12-21-2009   #33
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Mine seems 100% as well since coming home.
Very comforting isn't it, to have the problems thoroughly banished! I took mine on vacation recently, working perfectly other than a bit of dust on the sensor. Ah....
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Old 12-22-2009   #34
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Since then it's gone back to Leica USA and got a new sensor, with thanks to Tony at PopFlash for handling it smoothly...
Do you have the name of the contact person at Leica USA? I'm trying to get mine fixed/sensor replaced, but so far 2 reps I've been talking to are not very helpful in this regard and only say that this is part of the M8 algorithm...(so on and so forth) and is not offering me a sensor fix/replacement
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Old 12-22-2009   #35
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Hi -- Sorry, I had my dealer handle it. A lady from Leica USA did phone for confirmation and a first-hand description of the problem after she got the first fax from the dealer, but I didn't get her name. As I described in detail the blue line appearance and orientation it was clear she recognized the symptoms. I also had the shutter and viewfinder upgrades done at the same time for convenience.
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Old 12-22-2009   #36
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Do you have the name of the contact person at Leica USA? I'm trying to get mine fixed/sensor replaced, but so far 2 reps I've been talking to are not very helpful in this regard and only say that this is part of the M8 algorithm...(so on and so forth) and is not offering me a sensor fix/replacement
They must be either temps or really incompetent. If you get a third person to say this to you, do get their name. They should be fired for talking out of their ...
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Old 12-22-2009   #37
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They must be either temps or really incompetent. If you get a third person to say this to you, do get their name. They should be fired for talking out of their ...
Oh, I've been emailing with people higher up who have the word "manager" in their titles (I don't want to be more specific and get them in trouble)... I kept getting transfer from one level of people to another. And mind you, my problem has more than just one-pixel line at high ISO; but in some cases--multiple lines, and in one of my pictures--a wide streak of bright blue band going across a picture (around 5-10% of the picture width). Of course I sent samples to show the range of my problem (4 different original DNGs)... After a month of waiting for email replies, now still I'm waiting for an email reply from another "manager" (higher up)...

I'm starting to think that they are caring less and less about M8 service after the M9 came out(?)... My M8 is out of warranty as I bought it used from a forum member. Though I paid Leica USA (NJ) out of my own pocket to have the M8 CLA'ed and checked just over a month ago. (I found the vertical line problem not long after getting it back from Leica.)

How should I persuade them into understanding and have the sensor replaced? Any suggestions? I've already mentioned that I know that it's a fairly common problem and a number of online forum members were able to get the sensor replaced... (why not me?? ) And from the replies I got from different people at Leica USA (NJ), they all seemed to be surprised by my DNG files... taking weeks to look over the problem of what's going on with the DNGs...

Help? Please?
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Old 01-25-2010   #38
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I’m waiting to hear back from LEICA support to see how much they want to charge me to remap the sensor.
In the mean time, there is free software called pixel fixer that will remove the line caused by a dead pixel. All you need to do is download the software and add the pixel coordinates for the dead pixel and it can batch process your DNG files and remove the vertical lines.

http://www.pixelfixer.org/
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Old 01-25-2010   #39
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Too bad Pixelfixer doesn't run on Mac. On my shots taken before the sensor was fixed by LeicaUSA, I have been removing the line in the TIFF files manually. I locate the line (always in the same place, so relatively easy), Select All, move the near border of the selection to be adjacent to the line, hit the appropriate arrow key, which moves the selected part to close up the unwanted line. Save and go to the next. Of course this won't work on TIFFs that were rotated a bit in RAW processing...
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Old 01-26-2010   #40
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Oh, I've been emailing with people higher up who have the word "manager" in their titles (I don't want to be more specific and get them in trouble)... I kept getting transfer from one level of people to another. And mind you, my problem has more than just one-pixel line at high ISO; but in some cases--multiple lines, and in one of my pictures--a wide streak of bright blue band going across a picture (around 5-10% of the picture width). Of course I sent samples to show the range of my problem (4 different original DNGs)... After a month of waiting for email replies, now still I'm waiting for an email reply from another "manager" (higher up)...

I'm starting to think that they are caring less and less about M8 service after the M9 came out(?)... My M8 is out of warranty as I bought it used from a forum member. Though I paid Leica USA (NJ) out of my own pocket to have the M8 CLA'ed and checked just over a month ago. (I found the vertical line problem not long after getting it back from Leica.)

How should I persuade them into understanding and have the sensor replaced? Any suggestions? I've already mentioned that I know that it's a fairly common problem and a number of online forum members were able to get the sensor replaced... (why not me?? ) And from the replies I got from different people at Leica USA (NJ), they all seemed to be surprised by my DNG files... taking weeks to look over the problem of what's going on with the DNGs...

Help? Please?
I full CLA should have gotten you a certificate for a full year guaranty - I am starting to get the feeling somebody over there has taken a dislike against you....
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