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FSU Former Soviet Union RF This forum is for the Former Soviet Union rangefinder cameras, especially the many and various Fed, Zorki, and Kiev.

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Old 01-20-2007   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POSTI-Tuomo
I would like to see a CLA guide for the Zorki 1! That's an undertaking I've been contemplating on for some time now. Being a newcomer to the whole RF business all help would be most welcome.

With the winter coming, I really need to remove the old lubes from the gears and such to prevent jams... I know there's Jay Fedka's guide on his site, but I'd like to see your approach on the matter as well.
Well the "one" is running very nicely at the moment after some minor CLA work initially, plus it has film in it, so don't hold your breath! I'll bear it in mind, though Jay's site is a superb resource. I might use the FED instead though, which does need curtains and is more or less identical. To be honest, it's really quite a simple camera with nothing to trap the unwary really. If you're comfortable with a small screwdriver, go for it.

Last edited by wolves3012 : 01-20-2007 at 04:45.
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Old 01-20-2007   #42
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Sure, thanks for the encouragement. In fact, I drew up a list of the equipment needed. It's as follows:

- a set of small screwdrivers (1, 2 and 3 mm)
- pliers (round nosed, flat nosed?)
- a small spanner
- tweezers
- picks made out of kebab sticks (to clean the I-22 lens threads)
- a rubber mat
- some small brushes (does the hair have to be natural or will artificial hair do?)
- lighter petrol
- oil (what types are acceptable, bear in mind the camera is going to be used in sub-zero temps)
- some Blu-Tack to hold the parts neatly in place
- a deep and broad tray
- and a digital camera to record the process

Is there anything that I have missed? What do I need to clean the lens? Are chemicals to be used on it, or is that a strict no-no? Don't want to start without any critical instruments!
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Old 01-20-2007   #43
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Tuomo

Pliers 2 off,
pointy (needle) nosed, ground (filed) off to seat on lens rings
smooth faced to hold things without marr
washing up or thinner material rubber glove, to protect things held with pliers

The close focus stop may need gloves and pliers to undo, the threaded part is very small and easy to snap.

I use PTFE liquid rether then oil, for stability given there may be some wax remaining and it might react with a mineral oil. The PTFE is not a real oil but the old wax and PTFE shold be ok even cold.

It does not get cold here.

Noel
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For the last 13 months I've only used a Kiev (or Contax), apart from folders, Fed's, Zorki's, M2, etc.,... and a digital to record dismantle sequences...

Last edited by Xmas : 01-20-2007 at 05:34.
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Old 01-20-2007   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POSTI-Tuomo
Sure, thanks for the encouragement. In fact, I drew up a list of the equipment needed. It's as follows:

- a set of small screwdrivers (1, 2 and 3 mm)
- pliers (round nosed, flat nosed?)
- a small spanner
- tweezers
- picks made out of kebab sticks (to clean the I-22 lens threads)
- a rubber mat
- some small brushes (does the hair have to be natural or will artificial hair do?)
- lighter petrol
- oil (what types are acceptable, bear in mind the camera is going to be used in sub-zero temps)
- some Blu-Tack to hold the parts neatly in place
- a deep and broad tray
- and a digital camera to record the process

Is there anything that I have missed? What do I need to clean the lens? Are chemicals to be used on it, or is that a strict no-no? Don't want to start without any critical instruments!
I think you have covered what you will need. Brushes don't need to be natural hair provided the petrol does not affect them (it shouldn't). Pliers should be sharp-nosed. Rubber or plastic sleeving over the jaws is useful for some jobs.

As for oils, you'll need very thin oil such as watch/clock oil, especially for low temperatures. Better still is a silicone oil if you can source it. For gears I always use a silcone-based grease since it doesn't age or dry up. I can't recommend a source in Finland, but Maplin electronics in UK does a small tube that contains plenty.

I'd leave the optics alone unless they are very bad - re-assembling a lens is tricky and almost impossible to do dust-free. it's also very easy to scratch coatings with a slipped spanner etc. Use alcohol to clean lens elements and a very soft cloth. Be gentle and don't flood assembled lenses.

Maybe a separate thread for this would be a good move, since it's not a Zorki 4/4K we are discussing?
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Old 01-20-2007   #45
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Thanks for the responses: I think this covers all my questions for now. I'll make a separate topic once I get the CLA job underway and finished. Now, back to the topic; you people can take over from here on .
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Old 03-14-2007   #46
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Brilliant work! Thanks a lot, I'll try to do as you advise, I hope I won't make a ruin from my camera.
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Old 03-26-2007   #47
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Great.. this is right up my alley since my zorki 4k had stalled some time ago and was meaning to do something about it.i REALLY MISSED MY ZORKI Excellent start for me!

Thankyou wolves3012
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Old 09-11-2007   #48
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Hi all,
I was delighted to browse wolves' amazing description months after initial posting... along with instructions and photos. No, I do NOT intend to strip my two Z4's, yet I do appreciate knowing what makes them tick.

See my new Thread question on Z4 shutter care.
Cheers
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Old 09-11-2007   #49
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Wolves, fantastic job: very detailed and excellent illustrations, thank you for the effort!

I would just add that it's useful when one of pliers is with copper/brass lips. Sometimes you need to use them on chrome parts, and those will not leave any scratches.
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Old 09-16-2007   #50
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great instructions. but i had a little accident. the spring under the wind lever has got completely unwind and fall out. how can i put it back? how can i wind it? hhave you any photos of its original position?
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Old 09-16-2007   #51
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in pictur 47 and 48 are suposed to be curtains right? how did you remove them? can be the drum removed and how? because i have a little problem with curtain that is suposed to be wraped around the drum
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Old 09-16-2007   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persefonia
great instructions. but i had a little accident. the spring under the wind lever has got completely unwind and fall out. how can i put it back? how can i wind it? hhave you any photos of its original position?
Yes that's happened to me too! There are pictures of the spring in its correct position if you look above. You have to wind it back around the bobbin, carefully. I'd suggest some thin leather gloves or great care, you will cut your fingers very easily. Once wound around the bobbin, insert the pin as described above. The inner end of the spring hooks around a pin on the bobbin, by the way and the spring winds clockwise onto it (from memory!).
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Old 09-16-2007   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persefonia
in pictur 47 and 48 are suposed to be curtains right? how did you remove them? can be the drum removed and how? because i have a little problem with curtain that is suposed to be wraped around the drum
Those pictures show the drum but without the curtains (it was a parts camera) to show the places to lubricate. The curtains came off with some gentle pulling, they aren't held very tightly by the glue and they don't need to be. If you have unglued curtains you need to look very carefully to see where they used to be attached. The correct position of the curtain end on the drum is critical if the shutter is to work properly.
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Old 09-18-2007   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves3012
Those pictures show the drum but without the curtains (it was a parts camera) to show the places to lubricate. The curtains came off with some gentle pulling, they aren't held very tightly by the glue and they don't need to be. If you have unglued curtains you need to look very carefully to see where they used to be attached. The correct position of the curtain end on the drum is critical if the shutter is to work properly.
thanks for the spring instruction, i have succesfully put it back. now i just need to know how to remove the drum. it wasn't curtain that unglued but two tapes(strings) that are supposed to pull curtain forward and backward(attached on the top and the bottom of curtain), so i have to take the whole drumm out so i can put tapes back in their position and glue them
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Old 09-18-2007   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persefonia
thanks for the spring instruction, i have succesfully put it back. now i just need to know how to remove the drum. it wasn't curtain that unglued but two tapes(strings) that are supposed to pull curtain forward and backward(attached on the top and the bottom of curtain), so i have to take the whole drumm out so i can put tapes back in their position and glue them
To do this you need to remove the top plate. After removing the flash sync/slow-speed stuff etc on the top plate, take off the rangefinder. Under it there is a screw to be removed. Next remove another screw near the pillar for the shutter release/rewind collar. I think there are just those two that retain the top plate as long as the body front is removed. Lift it off carefully since several parts will fall out. Note the pin in the shutter mechanism that engages in the shutter drum, it will have to be replaced in the same position. Ditto the restrictor gear on the bottom of the drum.

Good luck!
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PDF file
Old 10-09-2007   #56
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PDF file

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves3012
Zorki 4K "HOW TO - CLA" here. hope you like it!

NOTE 1 - most photos will be in the posts below the sections - there are more than 5
photos in most sections!

NOTE 2: You can use this for a Zorki 4 as well. Apart from the winder, the two models are identical. To remove the winder knob on the Zorki 4, slacken the small grub-screw in it and then unscrew it. Ignore the parts about the rewind lever and its associated gears thereafter.

UPDATE: freeranger has kindly turned this thread into a PDF file, which can be found at:
http://www.fileupyours.com/files/102206/zorki4cla.pdf
Thanks freeranger
I have tried to open the PDF file using the link but I am told that no such file exists!

Have you any more info, please?

Peter
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Old 10-09-2007   #57
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Originally Posted by PMR
I have tried to open the PDF file using the link but I am told that no such file exists!

Have you any more info, please?

Peter
The link got changed I'm afraid, although I thought there was an alternative. I didn't create the pdf file, another member did that. There's nothing in the pdf that isn't in the thread though.
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Old 10-09-2007   #58
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Haven't followed this thread, but in my opinion the best way to CLA a Zorki is to buy a Bessa R!
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Old 10-10-2007   #59
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Yes, but that takes all the fun out of it.

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Haven't followed this thread, but in my opinion the best way to CLA a Zorki is to buy a Bessa R!
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Old 10-11-2007   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sooner
Haven't followed this thread, but in my opinion the best way to CLA a Zorki is to buy a Bessa R!
Buying a Bessa R patently doesn't achieve a CLA on a Zorki 4. Your point is what? The Bessa replaces everyone's Zorki 4, perhaps? How dull that would be!

Thankfully, some of us actually like these cameras, otherwise they'd all be junked and history would be lost.
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PDF for Zorki 4/4K
Old 11-10-2007   #61
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PDF for Zorki 4/4K

I started work today on a new PDF of wolves3012's tutorial; should be finished by Monday, Nov. 12, 2007. It includes the addendums of questions/answers after wolves3012 submitted his tutorial, and all the photos set within the text for easy reference of each step.

That is if wolves3012 will let me ~;-)
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Old 11-25-2007   #62
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Here is the new home for the PDF of wolves3012 CLA Tutorial on the Zorki 4/4K, edited by Vido:

http://thephotocollege.com/wolves301..._4K%20Tut.html
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Old 11-26-2007   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vido
Here is the new home for the PDF of wolves3012 CLA Tutorial on the Zorki 4/4K, edited by Vido:

http://thephotocollege.com/wolves301..._4K%20Tut.html
Oops, I forgot to post that, thanks Vido...and thanks for the effort of producing it!
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Probs not on the Zorki Tutorki
Old 11-26-2007   #64
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Probs not on the Zorki Tutorki

Oops, me too. I couldn't remember if I was supposed to do it or you, but it's there now for the clicking of others. The post-production taught me a lot. Thanks for letting me help get your work back to help all the FSU users.
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Old 07-25-2008   #65
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hey,

great guide, made my Zorki a wayyy better camera

Any idea how much of it could be adapted to my Fed 4b, which could also do with a tune up?

Thanks

Rob
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Zorki/Fed CLA
Old 07-25-2008   #66
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Zorki/Fed CLA

I know wolves3012 will be pleased all his work helped you with your Zorki. I didn't think mine needed a CLA but I did one anyway to see if I could follow my own editing of his great tutorial. I even applied some I learned from him while rebuilding my brother's Summitar 50/2 (the one with the friendly aperture blades), two Kiev 6x6's, and an old strat I never play.

Also am applying the techniques on the new (old) Argus A3 with the extinction meter that kinda almost works. Soon.

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Old 01-21-2009   #67
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I need to lubricate/fix the shutter release on my Zorki 2C. Before I start dismantelling it are the above instructions and parts the same?

Regards,
Lee
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Old 02-21-2009   #68
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Thanks for the detailed guide. My Zorki 4K had lost its shutter trigger and spring due to the loosening of the small screw that holds it in place.
I removed the top cover following your instructions, tightened the screw, cleaned up things around, remounted the whole thing, et voila ! It is now ready to take a few more years of beating.
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Old 03-11-2009   #69
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Hiya, might as well piggyback this thread. I have a 4K I managed to drop on a trip, get the RF totally out of whack and then fumble enough to loosen the adjustment screw enough to have it rattling inside.

So thanks to the detailed instructions here (big hand) I finally got to repairing it, alas theres a couple things I am missing now I put it all back together again.

1. Film advance is "loose", as in I need to advance first halfway, and then advance fully to get the shutter triggered. Is it my spring too loose or the cog wheel under the spring in the wrong position?

2. The film rewind release doesn't work. I mean it releases the silver spool with the teeth from the shutter allright, but it won't "release" it to allow rewinding, it only moves half a turn and then stops. And I didn't really touch anything of that assembly, only the rewind mechanism.

3. If you look from the film compartment there are the cogwheels and then a "claw"... on the claw there is a small spring... where/how what is it supposed to be doing? Apparently not allowing a return of the cogwheels but I didn't pay attention to its existence before removing a hefty dollop of grease. The spring's function is a mystery...

*sigh* the Fed 3 I reassembled was such a cakewalk as are plain 4's.
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Old 03-15-2009   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHairyFinn View Post
Hiya, might as well piggyback this thread. I have a 4K I managed to drop on a trip, get the RF totally out of whack and then fumble enough to loosen the adjustment screw enough to have it rattling inside.

So thanks to the detailed instructions here (big hand) I finally got to repairing it, alas theres a couple things I am missing now I put it all back together again.

1. Film advance is "loose", as in I need to advance first halfway, and then advance fully to get the shutter triggered. Is it my spring too loose or the cog wheel under the spring in the wrong position?

2. The film rewind release doesn't work. I mean it releases the silver spool with the teeth from the shutter allright, but it won't "release" it to allow rewinding, it only moves half a turn and then stops. And I didn't really touch anything of that assembly, only the rewind mechanism.

3. If you look from the film compartment there are the cogwheels and then a "claw"... on the claw there is a small spring... where/how what is it supposed to be doing? Apparently not allowing a return of the cogwheels but I didn't pay attention to its existence before removing a hefty dollop of grease. The spring's function is a mystery...

*sigh* the Fed 3 I reassembled was such a cakewalk as are plain 4's.
In answer to your questions:
1) yes you did reposition the ratchet wrongly. Take a close look at the pictures and you'll see the ramps in the correct position. Alternatively, just move it about 1/8 turn and try again. You can't be much further away than that.

2) The rewind release collar should only turn about 1/4 turn anyway. Effectively what it does is to depress the shutter and release the sprocket. If the sprocket IS releasing you could lock the shutter down when rewinding and live with that or take it all apart and solve whatever is the real problem.

3) The "claw" you mention is a ratchet that allows one-way gear movement. The tiny spring keeps the "claw" (it's actually called a pawl) in engagement with the gear teeth.

Hope that helps!
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Old 03-20-2009   #71
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Many, many thanks! Following your instructions my Zorky-4K had now new life.
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Old 04-18-2009   #72
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I'm stuck on part 2, getting the slow speed gearing back in. I seem to get it to the right place but I don't get the shutter speed selector and the ring gear to cooperate. And of course, you don't get to find this out 'til you have the whole thing back together. Is there a gotcha there that the easily baffled might run into?

EDIT: I have made another couple of runs at this and perhaps my escapement has gotten gummed from repeated handling. I'm de-greasing it again (mmm, the smell of orange oil). Where my reality deviates from the documentation is the number of turns i need to wind the ring gear: I need almost 2 full revs to get the pin in the right place. Is there a more precise way to tell if this is working properly?

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Old 04-19-2009   #73
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I'm stuck on part 2, getting the slow speed gearing back in. I seem to get it to the right place but I don't get the shutter speed selector and the ring gear to cooperate. And of course, you don't get to find this out 'til you have the whole thing back together. Is there a gotcha there that the easily baffled might run into?

EDIT: I have made another couple of runs at this and perhaps my escapement has gotten gummed from repeated handling. I'm de-greasing it again (mmm, the smell of orange oil). Where my reality deviates from the documentation is the number of turns i need to wind the ring gear: I need almost 2 full revs to get the pin in the right place. Is there a more precise way to tell if this is working properly?
First of all, the 1-and-a-half turns was what mine needed. I don't think 2 turns would mean something is wrong, it's just a case of individual spring tension etc. You'll probably find that 3 turns (ish) can't be achieved because the spring is fully found before 3 turns and that needs to be avoided.

The only way to check if you have it set up properly is to cock the shutter, which can be awkward to do with half the top missing (and the lever, in particular!). Try winding it by turning the film sprocket in the normal film travel direction. Hurts your fingers but it works. Good luck!
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Old 04-19-2009   #74
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Ah, OK. And one more detail. Since mine is a 4, not a 4K, I can use the winder knob to cock the shutter, yes?

The speed selector on this 'un was a little balky and still seems a little tricky, as if the tabs and slots don't fit well. I guess it's only a '70 and hasn't been run in yet?
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Old 04-19-2009   #75
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Ah, OK. And one more detail. Since mine is a 4, not a 4K, I can use the winder knob to cock the shutter, yes?

The speed selector on this 'un was a little balky and still seems a little tricky, as if the tabs and slots don't fit well. I guess it's only a '70 and hasn't been run in yet?
On a 4 you can just screw the knob back on and use that, yes.

If the tabs/slots of the selector are tight, try a few small dabs of lightwight grease on the slots. Run the selector around the speeds a bit to work it in. Personally, I tend to oil or grease the contact surfaces of any moving parts. Oil for bearings of any sort and grease for gears and anywhere oils wouldn't stay in place.
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Old 04-19-2009   #76
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First of all, the 1-and-a-half turns was what mine needed. I don't think 2 turns would mean something is wrong, it's just a case of individual spring tension etc. You'll probably find that 3 turns (ish) can't be achieved because the spring is fully found before 3 turns and that needs to be avoided.

The only way to check if you have it set up properly is to cock the shutter, which can be awkward to do with half the top missing (and the lever, in particular!). Try winding it by turning the film sprocket in the normal film travel direction. Hurts your fingers but it works. Good luck!

Alright, I think we have achieved something approaching success. But . . . the second curtain doesn't close. The speeds sound OK (at least as fast as the unwinding of the escapement goes) but the second curtain doesn't close until I cock the shutter. Not what controls that . . . help?

More messing about with this hasn't revealed anything other than that camera repair is not a career option ;-) I have perused Rick Oleson's pages on this and I don't quite see how I can either check that the shutter is under tension and then release it or otherwise get things right. I think I have stuffed something up and despair at having another basketcase on my hands.

Last edited by paul beard : 04-20-2009 at 20:45.
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Old 04-21-2009   #77
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More messing about with this hasn't revealed anything other than that camera repair is not a career option ;-) I have perused Rick Oleson's pages on this and I don't quite see how I can either check that the shutter is under tension and then release it or otherwise get things right. I think I have stuffed something up and despair at having another basketcase on my hands.
There are two ways the second curtain is held open. First, there's the crescent-shaped arm sitting in an arc around the speed selector. This gets kicked aside by the little tab on the first curtain shaft. Secondly, there's a tiny lever sitting under the slow speed mechanism and this gets pushed into operation when the slow speeds are set: once the delay is up the mechanism pushes this out of the way and the second curtain carries on. The tiny cam under the clockwork is what operates the lever, so have a close look.

When a slow speed is set, the second curtain's "normal" release is kicked aside as usual but the second one detains it until the time's up. Have a re-read of the sticky and see if you can understand by watching it what happens. You could also fire the shutter with the slow-speed mechanism removed and try moving that little lever manually to see the operation: the shutter will stay open until you move it aside. Positioning of the slow-speed mechanism's cam is crucial when you re-fit it.
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Old 04-21-2009   #78
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There are two ways the second curtain is held open. First, there's the crescent-shaped arm sitting in an arc around the speed selector. This gets kicked aside by the little tab on the first curtain shaft. Secondly, there's a tiny lever sitting under the slow speed mechanism and this gets pushed into operation when the slow speeds are set: once the delay is up the mechanism pushes this out of the way and the second curtain carries on. The tiny cam under the clockwork is what operates the lever, so have a close look.
Is the level a thin black piece that is flat on the top deck? I see it and it moves a little. Not sure how much and in what direction it should go. And I really don't want to disassemble another Zorki 4 to find out ;-)
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Old 04-21-2009   #79
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Haven't followed this thread, but in my opinion the best way to CLA a Zorki is to buy a Bessa R!
Yes, well there's no doubt while if one is simply interested in an operational LTM body, the Bessa R meets the mark very well, but I rather enjoyed this thread. I think the point is not so much that it's a 4K that's being CLA'ed, but that this makes a good training vehicle for those interested in camera repair in general. Many of the Russian rangefinders seem to be good for that due to their relative simplicity. A CLA'd 4K would also make a very useful photographic tool for many.

When I get a lot more time than I have now, I plan to try this!!!
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Old 04-22-2009   #80
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Is the level a thin black piece that is flat on the top deck? I see it and it moves a little. Not sure how much and in what direction it should go. And I really don't want to disassemble another Zorki 4 to find out ;-)
Yes, that's the second catch. It is spring-loaded towards the speed selector (i.e. to the right as you hold the camera normally). I don't recommend taking it apart since you'd have to remove the RF/VF block first. The little cam under the slow-speed mechanism pushes that flat bar to the left at the end of the time and so releases the second curtain. It doesn't move very far at all, couple of mm. Taking the slow-speed mechanism out means that catch never gets pushed aside, so the second curtain cannot release.
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