Elmar/Hektor Black Barrel Database
Old 02-22-2006   #1
doubs43
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Elmar/Hektor Black Barrel Database

Joe, if you can make this a "sticky" under the Leica Screw Mount Forum, I'd appreciate it.

I'd like to put together a database of 9cm/90mm Elmar and 13.5cm/135mm Hektor screw-mount lenses in BLACK BARREL only. That means pre-war to the late 1940's. I'm not certain when production changed to chrome barrels but it was late 1940's I'm pretty certain.

Any data I collect will be available to all members who are interested.

The data I'd like to have is:

Focal Length - 9cm or 90mm & 13.5cm or 135mm as marked

Serial number - complete if possible

Focusing scale - feet or meters

Aperture Range - i.e., f/4 - f/36

Elmar or Hektor

Coated or uncoated

Pictures of the lens would be nice; side view and view showing the serial number, model etc.

The names of the owners are not necessary.

Please PM the information or email me at: [email protected].

Thanks to everyone.

Walker
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Last edited by doubs43 : 02-22-2006 at 12:49.
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Old 02-22-2006   #2
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Bump....... I've had my first reply..... a 1947 Hektor.

Joe, can you make my request for data a sticky? PLEEEEEEEEZE!!??

Walker
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Old 02-22-2006   #3
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I have one coming up, Walker. The one William got. I will try it in a Hektor screw moount to get rangefinder coupling.
More when I have it.

cheers, Rob.
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Old 02-22-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laptoprob
I have one coming up, Walker. The one William got. I will try it in a Hektor screw moount to get rangefinder coupling.
More when I have it. cheers, Rob.
Thanks, Rob. I have input from two RFF members now. I personally have two Hektors and an Elmar in 13.5cm length and one 9cm Elmar.

I should have also asked for black barrel Elmar 13.5cm lenses. Think I'll go back and do that.

I'm also keeping an eye on ebay offerings as many times the data I seek is in the pictures or descriptions.

I appreciate any information anyone can provide and I'll happily share whatever I get.

Walker
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Old 03-03-2006   #5
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Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 596514. Meter, has some remains of coating. (A dog.)
Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 556563. Meter, uncoated.
Hektor f=13,5cm No 600125. Meter, coated.

All to f:36 minimum aperture, continental scale.
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Old 03-03-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Shriver
Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 596514. Meter, has some remains of coating. (A dog.)
Elmar f=9cm 1:4 No 556563. Meter, uncoated.
Hektor f=13,5cm No 600125. Meter, coated.

All to f:36 minimum aperture, continental scale.
John, thank you very much for the data. Elmar #556563 is a 1940 lens. #596514 is an early 1945 lens while the Hektor is a late 1945 lens.

While my data is much too sketchy at the moment to tell anything for certain, what I've been able to find on ebay plus what RFF members have sent me, it appears that Leitz was coating their lenses by at least some point in 1944. Whether they were coating all or only military destined lenses is also not known. That's what I hope to eventually determine if it hasn't already been recorded somewhere. I haven't seen that data in print myself but it could be.

Thanks again.

Walker
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Old 03-03-2006   #7
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Walker, I got Williams black Elmar 135 a few days ago. William has given you the info on numbers etc. Do you have all the info you want? It is the uncoupled one.
It is possible to mount the Elmar lens on a later Hektor body, but the Elmar body is shorter, so no real use there. I would like to use the uncoupled Elmar on a coupled body. Maybe I can get an okd-style coupled lens body somewhere.
Do you know how long a black Hektor body is, from flange until the end of the focusing mount (at infinity)?

cheers, Rob.
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Old 03-06-2006   #8
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As soon as I fine mine, I`ll forward info

90 and 135 uncoated-- both black- both RF coupled
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barrel lengths
Old 03-06-2006   #9
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barrel lengths

I already mailed these to Walker: I have been searching Ebay for info on different types of lensheads with corresponding barrel lengths.
Reason: I would like to be able to use my 1930 Elmar 135mm (not cm!) on a coupled barrel.
I think there are two lengths: 9,24cm for the old type and 10,71cm for the newer type. Measured when set for infinity.
The two types of lensheads are easily distinguishable.

Can anyone confirm this?

thanks, Rob.

march 11: things become clear. The shorter barrel is Elmar, the longer Hektor.
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Old 03-06-2006   #10
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Walker I sent info. for my black 9cm.
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Old 03-06-2006   #11
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Rob, you would need a focusing mount calibrated for the focal length of your Elmar head. Focusing it to infinity isn't enough, the slope of the cam depends on the focal length.

That's why you want the penciled or engraved number in the focusing mount to match the last three digits of the serial number of the head.
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Old 03-06-2006   #12
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According to Puts' book, consumer Hektor 135/4.5 lenses were coated starting at serial 600000. Wartime lenses were coated as early as 1941, but only for sales to the military. (For instance, Summitars for the military were coated starting at 587001.)
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Old 03-11-2006   #13
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So now I have two very early Elmars 135mm. Or rather an uncoupled numberless 135mm (meters, possibly 1390, scratch no. 41316) and a coupled 13,5cm (feet, possibly 1932 or '33 no. 142101).

The latest just arrived today from a misnamed Ebay auction. It is not a Hektor! So it may well be that all Elmars have the slightly shorter mount.

Since I am not that much of a collector, the appearantly very rare uncoupled version is for sale. Please make me an offer.

cheers, Rob.
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Last edited by laptoprob : 03-11-2006 at 11:26.
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Old 03-11-2006   #14
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My Elmar 90/4.
Serial # 372160 (1937)

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Old 03-12-2006   #15
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Finally found my lenses

90 4.0 Elmar #576855 uncoated A 36 Feet only marking

135 4.5 Elmar #415351 uncoated A36 Meter only marking

Both are black finish both coupled RF
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Old 03-13-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Shriver
According to Puts' book, consumer Hektor 135/4.5 lenses were coated starting at serial 600000. Wartime lenses were coated as early as 1941, but only for sales to the military. (For instance, Summitars for the military were coated starting at 587001.)
John, thanks for the information from Puts. That's the first printed information of it's kind that I'm aware of and it dovetails nicely with what I had suspected about the coating of Leitz lenses. One explaination for the way it was distributed is that lens coating may well have been a military secret. It's also possible that the process wasn't sufficiently developed to allow coating of all lenses.

Walker
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Old 03-13-2006   #17
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Rob, Rich and Ronald; thanks for the lens information. I'm entering them into my data base.

Walker
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Old 03-26-2006   #18
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Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 177712 (1933). Metres. uncoated.
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 414995 (1937). Feet. uncoated
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Old 03-26-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Snell
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 177712 (1933). Metres. uncoated.
Elmar 9cm f4-36 No. 414995 (1937). Feet. uncoated
Bill, thank you. Your 1933 Elmar is the earliest one I've encountered so far.

Walker
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Old 03-29-2006   #20
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Hey Walker, I sold the uncoupled 135 Elmar to a guy who has a same-period non-standard 1(C). He informed me about his camera and 50 Elmar serial no.: 48679. The 135 Elmar is 49316. The first standardized Leica camera is appearantly a serial 55404.
Hektor 135's start at 156.000 in 1933.
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Old 03-30-2006   #21
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Walker, The 1933 Elmar is in great condition. Thought you might like to see acouple of shots.
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Old 03-30-2006   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Snell
Walker, The 1933 Elmar is in great condition. Thought you might like to see acouple of shots.
Bill, both of those shots are very nice. I like the colors and they show that the old uncoated lenses, if in good condition, are capable of first class results. I have a 1938 vintage 9cm Elmar on the way and I hope it'll do as well. My father's 1937 Elmar is well-worn but turns in outstanding results.

Thanks for posting thos pictures.

Walker
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Old 03-31-2006   #23
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Does anyone have a pic of their 9cm mounted on a Barnack body? I'm thnking of getting one for my IIIa, but it seems that it might be rather unwieldy.
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Old 03-31-2006   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly
Does anyone have a pic of their 9cm mounted on a Barnack body? I'm thnking of getting one for my IIIa, but it seems that it might be rather unwieldy.
Here's a Leica III with the 9cm Elmar & Imarect Finder mounted. The quarter gives size reference. The combination is not in the least difficult to handle. It's actually a very nice combination.

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File Type: jpg Leica III 90mm Elmar.jpg (205.2 KB, 129 views)
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Old 04-04-2006   #25
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Forgot about my black Elmar: 9cm 1:4, s/n 596758, coated, meters, distance ring is ivory paint, not chrome, older f-stop numbers, f/36 minimum.
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File Type: jpg P1010002.JPG (23.1 KB, 68 views)
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Old 04-06-2006   #26
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13.5cm Hektor 4.5-36 meters rfcoupled serial#4410xx uncoated
This lens came with my M3 including a ltm-m adapter which brings up the correct frame in the viewfinder. I also use this lens with my IIIa. attached image shows my home made lenshood.
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Old 04-06-2006   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorM.
Forgot about my black Elmar: 9cm 1:4, s/n 596758, coated, meters, distance ring is ivory paint, not chrome, older f-stop numbers, f/36 minimum.
Victor, that's an interesting lens. It's a 1945 production and may be very late war-time or very early post-war. It's normally thought that lenses prior to serial number 600,000 were only coated if made for the military. Yours is close enough to perhaps be one of the earliest civilian coated lenses..... or one of the last military lenses. While 600,000 is a nice round number, who knows the exact number at which ALL Leitz lenses were coated? The ivory paint would seem to suggest that proper materials were difficult to come by when that Elmar was made. Thank you for sharing.

Walker
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Old 04-06-2006   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2maneekameras
13.5cm Hektor 4.5-36 meters rfcoupled serial#4410xx uncoated. This lens came with my M3 including a ltm-m adapter which brings up the correct frame in the viewfinder. I also use this lens with my IIIa. attached image shows my home made lenshood.
Your Hektor was made in 1938 and should be a fine lens. I like mine and I appreciate the information.

Walker
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Old 06-28-2006   #29
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I just recieved a 90/Elmar, so I thought I'd add it to your list. This is the first one I've seen in the flesh - couldn't get over how tiny they are.

Sorry, no pics of it

Elmar f=9cm 1:4
Sn 596570
f4-36
Meters
coated
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Old 06-29-2006   #30
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Wow, that serial number is close to the one I have.
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Old 06-30-2006   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorM.
Wow, that serial number is close to the one I have.
Hey, so it is. It's even closer to John Shriver's 90 on the previous page. Mine came out 56 lenses after his.
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Old 07-04-2006   #32
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Elmar 9cm f4, #609188, metres, coated (I think), chrome base and distance ring otherwise black, old aperture stops
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Old 07-21-2006   #33
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Just bought an Elmar 9cm/f4 serial #615778 (1946). Has an adapter so I can use it both on my M3 and IIIa. I don't know whether the glass is coated because I have not received it yet, but will post once I receive it. Pictures attached.
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Old 07-25-2006   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly
Just bought an Elmar 9cm/f4 serial #615778 (1946). Has an adapter so I can use it both on my M3 and IIIa. I don't know whether the glass is coated because I have not received it yet, but will post once I receive it. Pictures attached.
I received the lens today, and it has coated glass.
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Old 08-07-2006   #35
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I will join in on this, as I have just taken delivery of a 9cm Elmar. Serial Number is 596126, which makes it from 1945, if I am correct. It appears to be coated and distances are in meters. It is gorgeous.
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Old 08-23-2006   #36
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A couple of the first photos taken with my 90/4 Elmar.
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Old 11-10-2006   #37
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I have a 9cm f4 Elmar #459333 (1938?), uncoated, focus scale in feet, f-stop numbers old-type, no photos yet, but otherwise identical in appearance to jkelly's lens in this thread. I bought it on eBay from the US about six months ago.
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Old 11-10-2006   #38
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My Elmar is 9cm, serial # 576775 (1941 model), focusing in meters, aperture range f/4-36 in the "other" scale (4, 4.5, 6.3, 9, 12.8, etc.), uncoated. Came with bakelite case from a pawn shop in CA. Couldn't afford the camera, too. Still has the original owner's name on the case (an M.D., go figure).
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Old 04-14-2007   #39
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Mine is a Elmar uncoated
Focal length=9CM
Serial number=321851
Focusing scale=feet
Aperture range=f4-f36
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Old 04-21-2007   #40
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Hektor
13,5 cm
No. 241189
Focusing scale in Feet
Aperture range 4,5 - 36
Coated
Made in 1935?

I saw it at Photo Village a few years ago. Glass looked very hazy. They said $50, I said Ok. Took it home, un-screwed the front and found a layer of dust on the rear element. The glass is actually in great shape! Just looking into the barrel at the metalwork, they'd have to charge a thousand bucks if they made it like this today. Great for outdoor portraits.
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