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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #41
back alley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
"Street photographers" are touchy about it, it seems!
you see more anti street photography threads than anti landscape threads...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #42
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Street photography works when there is an overarching social message that can be read though a single or multi-image set. Street photography is no different from a sunset photo when it's just 'decisive moment' hunting.

I personally find street photography these days pretty boring, but that's because it just seems like decisive moment hunting and various magnum photo style copiers. But, I woulnd't tell anyone not to practice it, I'd just say what I always say, which is never stop asking yourself what you're trying to do, and why you're trying to do it. Even if you do that well after the fact.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #43
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It's easy to be a critic.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjones View Post
So are you criticizing street photographer as a genre itself (however one defines the inherently ambiguous term), or is your complaint against the amount of horrible but nevertheless praised photos that street photography attracts?
I'm not criticizing anything, it's just an observation.

Sure, there are all sorts of genres with mediocre photography. Only a very small percentage of photography of any genre has true merit and is extraordinary, but it appears that street photography is routinely praised as extraordinary regardless of whether it is extraordinary, poor, mediocre, or just plain ordinary.

Just curious if anyone else has the same opinion.

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #45
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Sure, there are all sorts of genres with mediocre photography. Only a very small percentage of photography of any genre has true merit and is extraordinary, but it appears that street photography is routinely praised as extraordinary regardless of whether it is extraordinary, poor, mediocre, or just plain ordinary.
Where and how does this appear? And the same is not true for example for portrait photography? I don't really buy it.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #46
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It's easy to be a critic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ozEA0JJiCY
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #47
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Legal?

Roger; please comment.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...ifiable_people
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
it appears that street photography is routinely praised as extraordinary regardless of whether it is extraordinary, poor, mediocre, or just plain ordinary.

Just curious if anyone else has the same opinion.
I do, and a few years back read an article in which the writer described much of it as, 'The emperor's new clothes' - which seemed quite apt.

Cheers,

John
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #49
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Another..

http://www.pcblawfirm.com/legal-issu...aphing-people/
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #50
Erik van Straten
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I love street photography.

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #51
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Quote:
D: ... The term "street photography" and your name have been synonymous for quite some time....
W: .... I think that those kind of distinctions and lists of titles like "street photographer" are so stupid.
+1 for
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I love street photography


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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #52
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Public forums aren't crit sessions at your local art college. People like to show their stuff. Some it will be good and lots will be bad. Some people will be supportive of the bad photos. Where is the problem? Do we need another photo of a mountain? Or a photo of young attractive people drinking PBR? Sure, why not?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #53
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Perfectly abstract criticism is perfectly useless. In my experience the only thing that gets more interesting the more abstract it gets is mathematics. Instead of speaking of the thousands or millions of images that can be lumped together as "street photography", why not pick out a few that are representative of the problems you see, or name a photographer you don't get. Then there's a chance that someone will have something interesting to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
I'm not criticizing anything, it's just an observation.

Sure, there are all sorts of genres with mediocre photography. Only a very small percentage of photography of any genre has true merit and is extraordinary, but it appears that street photography is routinely praised as extraordinary regardless of whether it is extraordinary, poor, mediocre, or just plain ordinary.

Just curious if anyone else has the same opinion.

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
you see more anti street photography threads than anti landscape threads...
That's probably because landscapes can't and won't complain about having their likeness posted on social media or flickr without their permission.

I love great street photography but it is far and few between compared to a fair amount of documentary style work in that even though the documentary may be candid, there is at least a modicum of collaboration between the subject and image maker.

Street now, in 2017 seems like a similar operation to a trophy hunter, there is the hunter, the victim and the trophy. In too many cases, there is simply not much respect for the hunted.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
That's probably because landscapes can't and won't complain about having their likeness posted on social media or flickr without their permission.

I love great street photography but it is far and few between compared to a fair amount of documentary style work in that even though the documentary may be candid, there is at least a modicum of collaboration between the subject and image maker.

Street now, in 2017 seems like a similar operation to a trophy hunter, there is the hunter, the victim and the trophy. There is simply not much respect for the hunted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photog...#United_States

I hate this argument about posting people's likeness on social media. I've been living in NYC for 4 years shooting street and can count on one hand the amount of confrontations I've had and two were from rent-a-cops outside of Madison Square Garden. People can throw a fit about me taking a photo of them crossing the street but at the end of the day, I can do it. Am I saying it's right or ok to go to a park alone and give kids candy in exchange for their photograph? No. There is a distinction between what is legally ok and what is morally ok. Some people's morals are different but generally speaking, most people stay in the confines of what would be acceptable in the street photography community. (I can't think of a better term than "street photography" for the conversation.)
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
Street now, in 2017 seems like a similar operation to a trophy hunter, there is the hunter, the victim and the trophy. In too many cases, there is simply not much respect for the hunted.
A hostile take on photography.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #57
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Like anything else..some people are good at it..and some aint..and most..are squarely in the middle..and even get lucky..once in a while..
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #58
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I cannot get enough of shots of the backs of people's heads, or creeper shots of women walking by.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #59
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Years ago when the mall opened here our downtown died, only photos of empty sidewalks and very little traffic. And now the mall is just about empty. So I concentrate on birds.

David
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photog...#United_States

I hate this argument about posting people's likeness on social media. I've been living in NYC for 4 years shooting street and can count on one hand the amount of confrontations I've had and two were from rent-a-cops outside of Madison Square Garden. People can throw a fit about me taking a photo of them crossing the street but at the end of the day, I can do it. Am I saying it's right or ok to go to a park alone and give kids candy in exchange for their photograph? No. There is a distinction between what is legally ok and what is morally ok. Some people's morals are different but generally speaking, most people stay in the confines of what would be acceptable in the street photography community. (I can't think of a better term than "street photography" for the conversation.)
Just be aware that as a full time woking pro with almost 30 years experience, I know full well what our rights are but also understand that the big picture perception of the pursuit of street has changed with social media and the web in general, so you are in effect preaching to the choir?

Another thing to note is that NYC is a different animal when it comes to how people react to having their photo taken without permission, so one not ought to apply such a broad assertion to all cases. Even with letters of assignment, I have had confrontations with people that I had to de-escalate, prove my publication intent and it is not fun. In 2006 I made the AP wire when a drug crazed friend of Hunter Thompson's pumped a few rounds of 12 gauge over my hastily departing truck.

Yes...you have a right but be aware that your rights and what is right may not always align with those on the other end of the camera. One should be a voice of reason and respect when navigating opposing views of the right to photograph people they do not know in public places.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lss View Post
A hostile take on photography.
You mean if the hunted, right?

Because hobby street photographers often can not see how they are making people feel uncomfortable all for the sake of their hobby and how to deal with that outcome with empathy and humility.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one90guy View Post
Years ago when the mall opened here our downtown died, only photos of empty sidewalks and very little traffic. And now the mall is just about empty. So I concentrate on birds.
Dear David,

wait, does the expression «street birds» exist, meaning a certain erm street profession, or is that just my imagination, or a mirror translation?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I cannot get enough of shots of the backs of people's heads, or creeper shots of women walking by.
Yea! Whatta shame those are:

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/967?locale=en

http://ccp-emuseum.catnet.arizona.ed...d-c03725fcb44b
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #64
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
hobby street photographers often can not see how they are making people feel uncomfortable
Do you know how often you are caught by security cameras every day?

Erik.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
That's probably because landscapes can't and won't complain about having their likeness posted on social media or flickr without their permission.

I love great street photography but it is far and few between compared to a fair amount of documentary style work in that even though the documentary may be candid, there is at least a modicum of collaboration between the subject and image maker.

Street now, in 2017 seems like a similar operation to a trophy hunter, there is the hunter, the victim and the trophy. In too many cases, there is simply not much respect for the hunted.
They stalk the homeless here. Totally unforgiving in their pursuit of a" like" on whatever social media site they use. Really sick stuff.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukitas View Post
(...) A world with one Cartier Bresson had a few outstanding photographers. A world with two million Cartier Bressons produces a lot of sameness.
Maybe I misunderstand you, but if not:

Please name one of your Cartier-Bressons, or five?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
Street now, in 2017 seems like a similar operation to a trophy hunter, there is the hunter, the victim and the trophy.
Quote:
He once compared himself to a fisherman. The most important thing was to approach his catch cautiously, and to strike at just the right moment. The only difference was that the catch was not an animal but a chance.
Read the rest here to learn about one the fathers of so called "street photography".
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Do you know how often you are caught by security cameras every day?

Erik.
Yeah, I wish they would get my good side but my pants are always up...

By the way, love your work the Erik, but you should know that.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Do you know how often you are caught by security cameras every day?

Erik.
Security images aren't commonly posted on photo and social media sites. The behavior of some of these "street photographers" seems more the sociopath than HCB. Just my observation.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #70
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They stalk the homeless here. Totally unforgiving in their pursuit of a" like" on whatever social media site they use. Really sick stuff.
Photos of homeless people are the low hanging fruit of street. There is just nothing to be gained from it generally.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
They stalk the homeless here. Totally unforgiving in their pursuit of a" like" on whatever social media site they use. Really sick stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
Photos of homeless people are the low hanging fruit of street. There is just nothing to be gained from it generally.
They stalk the homeless here!

https://www.moma.org/collection/works/52297?locale=en

https://www.moma.org/collection/works/130438?locale=en

Moma must be closed and American Photographs should be burned!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #72
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Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
Photos of homeless people are the low hanging fruit of street. There is just nothing to be gained from it generally.
You mean "the easiest targets" ? The homeless aren't going to chase these "street photographers" down and threaten them with legal trouble. I would challenge one of these photographers to photograph outside of an expensive restaurant or private club in this city. I think the reaction by the subjects would be much different.

What do you think?

I looked at your posted photos. Seems you have a Dog in The Hunt. Justify it anyway you like. I see the behavior of many of these "photographers" ugly. I think being easily published in social media has spawned this behavior. Today, anyone with a camera is a "Photographer". I worked for years before being nationally published. Today its a click away..
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #73
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Security images aren't commonly posted on photo and social media sites.
Actually they are commonly posted to the latter, generally in video form more than photo form.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #74
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I can't say whether or not I like street photography. I like good photography - as it is defined by my tastes and preferences - and I like good photography that happens to be shot on the street.

Regardless of what genres people would like to assign to photography (or music or dance or any art, really), the quality of the art is really what counts. Different people can appreciate different aspects of "quality" and define it in different ways if they like, and that's fine. It's a big world and there's room for everybody.

It's also a sliding scale; the best photographer in his or her local photography club may receive praise from the others in that group because their work stands out in that crowd. Maybe it wouldn't if it were held up against a larger pool. Maybe it would. At what point is a piece of work's quality high enough to "rate"? Who's definition is the defining definition? I see lots of photography on line that I perceive as *** but others adore. I'm sure there are also images that I really like that someone else thinks are ***. It's all good.

Roger's example is right on - it's something I've said about music for decades: 90% of everything is crap. But we might not all agree on which 90%, and that's okay, too.

To me, what's harder to tolerate is the need so many people feel to categorize, pigeonhole and "grenre-ize" everything. Street Photography means little to me. I live in NYC. Practically ALL my photography is street photography! So what?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Sturgeon's Law:

Critic, to Theodore Sturgeon: "90% of science fiction is crud".

Sturgeon: "90% of anything is crud"........................

Cheers,

R.

Too true.

......1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.0.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #76
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Quote:
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You mean "the easiest targets" ? The homeless aren't going to chase these "street photographers" down and threaten them with legal trouble.
Nobody can chase you down, in the US, and threaten you with legal trouble.

Quote:
I would challenge one of these photographers to photograph outside of an expensive restaurant or private club in this city. I think the reaction by the subjects would be much different.

What do you think?
What is their reaction going to be and how could you possibly think you can predict it?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #77
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Street Photography means little to me. I live in NYC. Practically ALL my photography is street photography! So what?
Exactly.... it's too narrow of a genre to me and seems to have come to fruition as a term with the internet. Prior to the internet, I didn't hear the term much.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #78
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Exactly.... it's too narrow of a genre to me and seems to have come to fruition as a term with the internet. Prior to the internet, I didn't hear the term much.

Prior to the down-dumbing internet, people were able to use complicated words like «candid»
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #79
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Nobody can chase you down, in the US, and threaten you with legal trouble.



What is their reaction going to be and how could you possibly think you can predict it?
You're kidding right? if a homeless person is being harassed by a "photographer" here, and had a phone (which isn't likely) and called a cop. The likelihood of a cop showing up is nil. If a non-homeless person, who can afford a $200 lunch, calls a cop for the same reason a..do you think the cop will show up?

Anyone can sue anyone. The legality is decided in court. It's what I was taught in "Photography and the Law" years back. Taught by Jim Marshall, a photographer
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It's easy to be a critic.
Not really. Much easier to be mindlessly impressed by vacuous work, I think.

The problem with street photography, like most photography is that people just make pictures with no real goal in mind. Many who are technically proficient at using a camera, but haven't a clue what they're really after.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, taking photos as a hobby, just as something one does purely for their own amusement is fine. But how many wide-angle views of people walking away from the camera can people present as either art or well crafted document, when they haven't given any thought to why it should be art, or even just interesting to anybody else?

One can say the same for portrait photographers and landscape photographers. Most of it is superficial. Most of it is boring. And when it is interesting it is often just the case of the photographer documenting a subject which is interesting in its own right (a pretty sunset, a pretty face, etc.) without using their craft or vision to add anything more to it.
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