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XPan II strangeness
Old 02-08-2017   #1
sherlingj
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XPan II strangeness

Hello, I recently picked up an xpan II, and just developed my first roll. On quite a few images, there seems to be some weird ghosting. I've attached a couple examples. It almost looks like double exposure. Anyone have any ideas? Could the shutter be opening twice? Some sort of light leak? Internal reflections?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sherli...posted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sherli...posted-public/
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Old 02-08-2017   #2
Niko
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To me it looks like the shutter has still been open when the film starts moving to next frame. But i have no idea what could cause that.

Photos are interesting though
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Old 02-08-2017   #3
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I opened the back and fired the shutter with the lens off. It looks like it's not closed all the way when the shutter returns. There seems to be a gap between the two curtains on return. Anyone seen this before?
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Old 02-08-2017   #4
dufffader
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Hi.
What shutter speed were the two frames shot at?
I have film in my XPAN so I can't check, but I recall that the XPAN has a shutter systems where a slit moves across horizontally. So that nice effect you have on Flickr may be explained that way. Its indoor and at night, so I bet the shutter speed is pretty low.
I've only shot at relatively high shutter speeds outdoors so I've not seen that effect. But I can imagine a low enough speed where you could be capturing a ghost image.

Another possibility is the shutter bounce seen on some Leica RFs that is due for CLA. But I doubt this is the case. The image looks like there's one proper exposure, and another one that's stretched in one direction.
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Old 02-08-2017   #5
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The shutter drops vertically. It happens at all speeds, as I can actually see it when watching the shutter with the back open and the lens off. The shutter fires as normal, and when it resets, there is a gap between the curtains. By the time the shutter is resetting, the film is moving to the next frame, so I'm getting these ghost images off to one side.

When I get home tonight, I'll see if I can get a video of it happening.
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Old 02-08-2017   #6
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Did you check the camera's multiple exposure settings?

By the way, the pics, especially in the underground, are very cool!
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Old 02-08-2017   #7
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Thanks! The camera is not in multiple exposure mode. Here is a slow motion video of the shutter at 1/4. (It does the same thing at any speed, U just recorded it at 1/4.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73LnbMUIB1I

Sorry for the vertical video! :|
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Old 02-08-2017   #8
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Watched your vid. Something definitely is wrong, time to get it serviced.
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Old 02-13-2017   #9
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I've taken it in to several places, and only one would even give me a repair estimate. I was told "parts are not available, good luck." The place that gave me an estimate quoted 600, which seems a bit steep. I'm pretty surprised with the responses I've gotten.

I'm still waiting for a reply from Hasselblad and Fuji, but as I've never dealt with either, I'm not sure if I'll even get a reply. Anyone know someone in the UK or mainland Europe that works on Xpan cameras?
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Old 02-13-2017   #10
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I contacted Hasselblad at [email protected] and got a reply after a week or so. It took them another month to check with the main office if the service and parts were still available. I wanted to have bulb time extended and a stiff on/off switch replaced. Eventually, they said that bulb time could be extended but they didn't think they still had on/off selector parts available.

After that the service was pretty fast and they also replaced the on/off selector.

Another name that came up in my search was Wilco Jansen (just google and you'll find his site) who replied immediately. He wasn't able to extend bulb time but said he has no problem getting replacement parts for the on/off switch...
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Old 02-13-2017   #11
dufffader
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You're right.
Just finished the roll in my XPAN and got a look at it.

That said, the OP's video of the shutter in action does look strange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlingj View Post
The shutter drops vertically. It happens at all speeds, as I can actually see it when watching the shutter with the back open and the lens off. The shutter fires as normal, and when it resets, there is a gap between the curtains. By the time the shutter is resetting, the film is moving to the next frame, so I'm getting these ghost images off to one side.

When I get home tonight, I'll see if I can get a video of it happening.
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Old 02-14-2017   #12
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Did they also fix the issue you had w/ not being able to turn the exposure compensation dial? And your light meter? In another post you had said neither worked.
All that works perfectly on my ones. But I did notice an Xpan that had a harder to turn selector so I'm wondering if these items just wear quickly.
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Old 02-14-2017   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlingj View Post
I've taken it in to several places, and only one would even give me a repair estimate. I was told "parts are not available, good luck." The place that gave me an estimate quoted 600, which seems a bit steep. I'm pretty surprised with the responses I've gotten.

I'm still waiting for a reply from Hasselblad and Fuji, but as I've never dealt with either, I'm not sure if I'll even get a reply. Anyone know someone in the UK or mainland Europe that works on Xpan cameras?
Give Newton Ellis in Liverpool a call. Don't know about the XPan but they have serviced a load of my cameras (mostly 35mm RFs)

0151 236 1391
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Old 02-14-2017   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Did they also fix the issue you had w/ not being able to turn the exposure compensation dial? And your light meter? In another post you had said neither worked.

Since you bring that up in every single Xpan thread that I post (probably even in the ones not about Xpan) I would kindly ask you to stop. People in this thread (and others) are probably not interested in our private joke and exposure compensation controls on XPans. But I will post this one last bit on the matter. We can continue this in PM, of course. I just don't want to spam the forums with the constant repetition.

So... No, they were unable to fix the exp. comp. dial (they said that they messed that up at design time already). They also confirmed my suspicion that metering pattern was "sort of meant for slide film landscapers that forgot their spot meter at home". It's small enough that you can take two or more separate readings and decide on exposure based on that. Or you could search for an approximation of 18% grey in the scene, lock on that and reframe. Neither needs exposure compensation. So they thought that instead of fixing the exp. comp. dial (just have a look at rangefinder Bessas or Zeiss Ikons to see how elegant exp. comp. control can be) they moved it to the back as nobody really needs it. Especially with manual focus cameras where half press can only be tied to one lock (exposure) and doesn't have to "fight" for it with focus lock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
All that works perfectly on my ones. But I did notice an Xpan that had a harder to turn selector so I'm wondering if these items just wear quickly.
The new selector is supposed to be OK and shouldn't become stiff again (but this is from Wilco Jansen and not directly from Hasselblad people).
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Old 02-15-2017   #15
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Well, that is the risk of buying complex film camera that is out of production. It could be repaired only with original parts, no DIY in this case.
It surprises my how the prices are high when you take into account low probability of repair and if the repair is possible it is quite expensive.
On the other side since there are only 2-3 producers of film cameras what else to do if you want to shoot film then to buy used camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlingj View Post
I've taken it in to several places, and only one would even give me a repair estimate. I was told "parts are not available, good luck." The place that gave me an estimate quoted 600, which seems a bit steep. I'm pretty surprised with the responses I've gotten.

I'm still waiting for a reply from Hasselblad and Fuji, but as I've never dealt with either, I'm not sure if I'll even get a reply. Anyone know someone in the UK or mainland Europe that works on Xpan cameras?
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Old 02-15-2017   #16
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https://www.cameramuseum.uk/camera-repair-service

Part of Aperture but specialising in Hasselblad.
They did a very professional job replacing light seals in three A12 backs and stripped gears in one of them last month for me. Very easy to deal with and efficient.
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Old 02-15-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
Since you bring that up in every single Xpan thread that I post (probably even in the ones not about Xpan) I would kindly ask you to stop. People in this thread (and others) are probably not interested in our private joke and exposure compensation controls on XPans. But I will post this one last bit on the matter. We can continue this in PM, of course. I just don't want to spam the forums with the constant repetition.

So... No, they were unable to fix the exp. comp. dial (they said that they messed that up at design time already). They also confirmed my suspicion that metering pattern was "sort of meant for slide film landscapers that forgot their spot meter at home". It's small enough that you can take two or more separate readings and decide on exposure based on that. Or you could search for an approximation of 18% grey in the scene, lock on that and reframe. Neither needs exposure compensation. So they thought that instead of fixing the exp. comp. dial (just have a look at rangefinder Bessas or Zeiss Ikons to see how elegant exp. comp. control can be) they moved it to the back as nobody really needs it. Especially with manual focus cameras where half press can only be tied to one lock (exposure) and doesn't have to "fight" for it with focus lock.



The new selector is supposed to be OK and shouldn't become stiff again (but this is from Wilco Jansen and not directly from Hasselblad people).
My question was sincere. Glad you got yours fixed. Case closed.

To the OP, I hope you get your camera fixed too. These machines are tremendous and unique, nothing else like them.
As they are made by Fuji, you might even contact them but call your camera the Fuji equivalent (TX1 or TX2) in case you get a customer service agent who will not understand that the Hasselblad is a Fuji.
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Old 02-15-2017   #18
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Sherling, what is the shutter count on your camera? I always wondered why Fuji added that feature to its pro cameras (I have that on my GW690 too), so maybe it can give you an idea as to how much use it has seen. I guess that shutter count is meant to indicate when service is needed.
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Old 02-15-2017   #19
Chubberino
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Howdo you check shutter count on TX-2/Xpan II?

edit:
nvm, figured it out.
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Old 02-16-2017   #20
sherlingj
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The camera is currently in for repair at Sendean in London. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! I did take it to Aperture, but not the camera museum location. They were not willing to take it on, as they don't have a supply for parts.
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