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Half Frames / Subminiatures This forum is for all half frame 35mm cameras, including the very popular Olympus Pens and their SLR cousins, the Pen F and Pen FT, as well as all smaller than half frame subminiature film cameras.

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Old 03-27-2016   #41
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thanks for this thread. need to check these out...as long as cassettes aren't too difficult to locate
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Old 03-27-2016   #42
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Been busy purchasing everything I think I will need.

1) Two 16mm JOBO reels; I tried my two SS ones; UGH!
Each JOBO reel holds two films, so that is four rolls per tank (so far)
I'm heavily invested in JOBO so this is a good bet for me.
The SS ones I will prolly sell to defray the JOBO costs.

2) Omega D2 16mm Neg Carrier new old stock

3) Minolta E. Rokkor 30mm Enlarging Lens. Anybody familiar with this one?
It is mentioned on the Subclub site. I will be making a custom Omega D2 recessed lensboard for this baby. A lot of metal cutting will be involved but I enjoy it and good weather is ahead for my garage metalshop. See the Rokkor below, also seems appropriate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Minolta-E-Ro...vip=true&rt=nc

Below, my two SS 16mm reels. And a generic D2 flat board and Durst recessed cup, that I will cobble into a usuable enlarging lens setup for 16mm, with the Minolta E-Rokkor.

2016-03-27 12.28.28 by Nokton48, on Flickr
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Old 03-27-2016   #43
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The bottom stainless steel reel in your picture is the type I use. I find them really easy to load, but everyone is different. It's an advantage to have two so you can do multiple rolls at once, because I find I shoot lots of rolls every time I take my Minolta 16 out for a spin. ;-)
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Old 03-27-2016   #44
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For enlarging (for the 10X14 size neg anyway) I was fortunate to locate a Mamiya Enla head. The Enla head (Minolta made their version of this too) is a all-in-one condenser lens/neg carrier/enlarging lens that has a standard 39mm screw threads to fit most enlarging lens boards. The Mamiya has a 25mm f3.5 enlarging lens that stops down to f16 and a focusing helical that has a enough extension to get down to prints of about 2X2.4 inches. You just screw this into your enlarger's lens board, and then loosen a set screw and rotate the unit so the neg carrier is oriented right. It is real easy to use but not so easy to source. they do come up on he auction site now and again, that is where I found mine.
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Old 03-27-2016   #45
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Just checked out those e-bay auctions for reels that Timmyjoe linked.
Yikes! Now I remember why I bought those old Yankee tanks and reels. Call me cheap but 2 tanks with 4 adjustable reels totaled less than $35 shipped and although I prefer SS reels these have always worked just fine adjusted for 16mm. I took one reel and made major and not reversible modification to it to be able to develop 9.2mm wide film for the Minox. I can still do two 16mm rolls at the same time. Haven't shot the Minolta's for a while as I'm enamored by the Minox IIIs. It is so seductive.
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Old 03-27-2016   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Nokton48,
One item, that you can make, is a 'spinner stick'. It is a wood dowel with a 16mm deep slot cut into one end. I cut the slot with an Xacto razor saw, the wide one. You slip on end of the film into the slot and then, guiding the film along the edges with your thumb and index finger you spin the dowel and roll the film, emulsion side in, into a nice tight roll. Then slip it off the dowel. Don't worry when you slip the film off the dowel about getting finger prints on the film, this part of the film does not have images on it. With a 18 inch length of film you will have about 2.5 inches of start and tail of film to handle it in the darkroom. That is with a 20 exposure load. Single perf 16mm double X works fine (Eastman 7222) I use it all the time and you don't have to slit it. However slit film opens up a lot of really fine films. I'm wanting to try Tmax 100 or Delta 100 for the potential of much finer grain over the double X

Thanks Zuiko85! I will dig out my XActo razor knife and build myself a "spinner stick"
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Old 03-27-2016   #47
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Your welcome. Another hint, wrap the other end of the dowel with a couple of turns of masking tape so you can identify the end with the slot in total darkness. I also used a triangler file to introduce a slight taper to the slot to make it easier to find in the dark.

A word on cartridges. Genuine Minolta cartridges are by far the best. Sometimes they come up on eBay as new old stock and the prices can be breathtaking. I would recommend not paying over $20 each for NOS cartridges. Consider the film in them to be junk and just discard it. Remember, you will reload these cartridges over and over so the initial cost will amortize and the price per roll will drop. Keep the cartridges clean! I store my empty ones in a sealed plastic bag. You will find that with all the handling of film that it is hard to keep it scratch free. Between loads use a rocket blower or compress air to blow dust from the carts. For negative storage I use Clear File pages for 120 size negs and a sewing machine to devide each slip into three at about 20 mm wide each.

Finally, this is obviously a very hands on, do it yourself type of photography and if that's your thing you can have a lot of fun with these cameras.


Coming tomorrow.
I will reveal the secret "B" setting on the cheap and simple Minolta 16 Ps model
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Old 03-27-2016   #48
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More great tips. Thanks again. Great one about the neg pages, that would have been my next question.

I'm hoping all the bits will work together, like using the Omega D2 for 16mm. Yep I'm a do it yourself type of photographer so I am looking forward to finally seeing some images out of all of this.
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Old 03-27-2016   #49
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Igor's has reasonably priced original Minolta cartridges. http://igorcamera.com/subminiatures.htm
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A Minox IIIs user writes
Old 03-27-2016   #50
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A Minox IIIs user writes

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Just checked out those e-bay auctions for reels that Timmyjoe linked.
Yikes! Now I remember why I bought those old Yankee tanks and reels. Call me cheap but 2 tanks with 4 adjustable reels totaled less than $35 shipped and although I prefer SS reels these have always worked just fine adjusted for 16mm. I took one reel and made major and not reversible modification to it to be able to develop 9.2mm wide film for the Minox. I can still do two 16mm rolls at the same time. Haven't shot the Minolta's for a while as I'm enamored by the Minox IIIs. It is so seductive.
Hi Zuiko85,

Your comment about being enamored by the Minox IIIs is quite understandable. In the 70's I used to love shooting with my Minox
IIIs's and B's
I have a IIIs with a shot shutter and I debate about getting it repaired by DAG.

So I have some questions:
What do you do for film?
Do you slice 35mm?
Are cartridges available?
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Old 03-27-2016   #51
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Montag006'
I purchased the Minox almost one year ago. I knew I would need cartridges to load film into and prowled eBay for a deal. In a couple of weeks I found three NOS cartridges with color negative film (expired in 1998) I think they were about $30 shipped. I built a 'pull through' slitter out of hobby plywood and double edged razor blades and two bolts. After the carts arrived I dumped the color film and loaded Ilford Pan F slit down from 35mm bulk.

I have also picked up a couple of preloaded B&W films from Blue Moon Camera when I happened to be in Portland OR a few months ago. They are $20 each loaded with Ilford Delta 100, 36 exposure loads. Clumsy me, I have already broke the bridge on one of the cartridges, they are very fragile. I pulled that blunder by trying to open the spooled film side on a finished roll in total darkness, no more. Now when I reach the last exposure, I pump the camera twice, open and extract the roll, then carefully, pull the last bit of film from the feed side and just leave it like that. In the darkroom with the lights off of course, I pull the film from the take up chamber until it stops, snip it off, and then load the reel and put it in the tank and screw the lid on. Now I can turn on the lights and proceed normally to process the film. So I don't have to wait too long to see results I load 24 exposure rolls. The way I have the plastic reel set up I just push the approximately 16.5 inches of film onto the reel. It goes on smoothly.

I am using HC110 at 60:1 as a one shot, water stop, and regular Ilford rapid fixer, with a final photo-flo after rinse, then hang to dry. Seems to work ok.
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Old 03-28-2016   #52
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The "Film Slitter" arrived today from COlorado (that was fast!) so of course I had to try it out, with an old scrap roll (this is Fuji Neopan 400). The scraps on either side of the finished roll are only a few mils, so it uses a surprising amount of width from the 35 roll. Talked to Igor today, and he is checking, I told him I'll take eight Minolta cartridges, if he has 'em. I also want the "Gold 16MG" that he has, so I can shoot with two cameras. The Gold 16MG sure is cool looking.

Compare the cut roll with original film that was in the cassette (placed side by side). Absolutely identical.

2016-03-28 16.30.10 by Nokton48, on Flickr
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Old 03-28-2016   #53
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As promised yesterday, the secret "B" setting' for the Minolta 16 Ps...

Included is a photo of my $1 Minolta Ps. If you look carefully you will see a small silver divet. Let me explain: I was messing about with the camera one day and wondered what would happen with the lever set between the shutter speed selections. I found that with the lever set where that mark is, when I pressed the shutter release, the shutter would stay open. The easiest way to close the shutter was to advance the film so I figured that one could set the camera to this "B" position, then uncover the lens, expose the film, then cover the lens again to close the shutter. A bit of a bulky operation, I know, but at least it's possible. I don't think this is a fluke since I have two of these cameras from two different manufacturing years, and they both behave the same way.

Oops - tried to post a photo of what I'm talking about, but don't have a photo-sharing website to link to. What a drag; I hate computers...
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Old 03-28-2016   #54
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A few more notes on the Minolta Ps which can often be found for penuts. (Do not mix it up with the earlier 'P' model that does not have the two speed lever)

The Ps was always a low spec camera but surprisingly capable. For one thing the 25mm f3.5 lens (3 element, 3 group) is fixed focus at 5 meters, 16 ft. 5 inches. This means that at f11 everything from 7 ft. to infinity will be in focus, so a good daylight camera. One thing, the DOF chart included in the original instructions for the Ps is based on a CoC of 20 micron, a bit loose for such a small negative. Recalculated for a CoC of 15 micron is more reasonable.

The camera also had available for it 2 close up lenses, #1 brought prime focus to 1.2 meters. The #2 brought prime focus to .7 meters. These are somewhat hard to source now but expand the capability of the camera. I was fortunate to find a set from the same vender who sold me the cameras for $2.

Another thing I thought is that in trying to asertain if your Ps can do a 'B' setting obviously don't have film loaded.

This not being able to display photos is the pits. I feel I'm the only dummy with a camera, sitting in the dirt banging two rocks together while the rest of the rangefinder forum subscribers are all Buck Rogers. Serious inferiority complex.
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Old 03-28-2016   #55
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Nokton48;
That's a good deal on carts if he has them. Your slitter looks like a workable, simple design. My homemade one is similar. Eight carts! You must plan on shooting a lot. I've collected up 10 or 12 but that took me about 5 years.

I feel I must really branch out to some T grain film, at least try it out.
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Old 03-28-2016   #56
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Last fall I got an MG in the Presentation case, with the flash, filters, also instructions for the flash, and filters (but not the camera). There is a mailer to send the film to Minolta for processing in Torrence, CA. The key for the case was included too, which I would imagine is a hard item to find these days.

This thread gives me the inspiration to someday spool up some film. The meter is still working on the camera, though I'm not sure of its accuracy.

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Thanks for the info
Old 03-28-2016   #57
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Thanks for the info

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Montag006'
I purchased the Minox almost one year ago. I knew I would need cartridges to load film into and prowled eBay for a deal. In a couple of weeks I found three NOS cartridges with color negative film (expired in 1998) I think they were about $30 shipped. I built a 'pull through' slitter out of hobby plywood and double edged razor blades and two bolts. After the carts arrived I dumped the color film and loaded Ilford Pan F slit down from 35mm bulk.

I have also picked up a couple of preloaded B&W films from Blue Moon Camera when I happened to be in Portland OR a few months ago. They are $20 each loaded with Ilford Delta 100, 36 exposure loads. Clumsy me, I have already broke the bridge on one of the cartridges, they are very fragile. I pulled that blunder by trying to open the spooled film side on a finished roll in total darkness, no more. Now when I reach the last exposure, I pump the camera twice, open and extract the roll, then carefully, pull the last bit of film from the feed side and just leave it like that. In the darkroom with the lights off of course, I pull the film from the take up chamber until it stops, snip it off, and then load the reel and put it in the tank and screw the lid on. Now I can turn on the lights and proceed normally to process the film. So I don't have to wait too long to see results I load 24 exposure rolls. The way I have the plastic reel set up I just push the approximately 16.5 inches of film onto the reel. It goes on smoothly.

I am using HC110 at 60:1 as a one shot, water stop, and regular Ilford rapid fixer, with a final photo-flo after rinse, then hang to dry. Seems to work ok.
Zuiko 85,

thank you for the information.

Enjoy your sub-miniatures!

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Old 03-30-2016   #58
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Went to my box of 16mm goodies to discover to my horror that my carton of Eastman 7222 was....EMPTY!. I had used the last bit but forgot. So Ive just sent in an order to B&H for Kodak 16mm Tri-X, thought I'd better grab at least one spool before the weekly price increase (sorry for the snarky remark about Kodak). Guess I'll have to wait a week to fire up any of my Minolta's.
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Old 03-30-2016   #59
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You can also buy film from ORWO. They have 16 mm single and double perforated film in 100 to 1000 foot rolls. ASA 100 and 400. Also 35mm stock and some dupe films.
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Old 03-30-2016   #60
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Quote:
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...Oops - tried to post a photo of what I'm talking about, but don't have a photo-sharing website to link to. What a drag...
Sure you do! Right here at the RFF Gallery. Very easy to use it as an online intermediary...
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Old 03-31-2016   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Nokton48;
That's a good deal on carts if he has them. Eight carts! You must plan on shooting a lot. I've collected up 10 or 12 but that took me about 5 years.

I talked to Igor again a couple of days ago. He was heading out on a buying trip but he took care of me. I did buy his GOLD 16MG so I will have two 16mm cameras (for different films!). Identical cameras, one in silver, and one in Gold.

He also had the eight Minolta cartridges for me. I asked him to count what was left over. He has sixteen Minolta cartridges left to sell, with no boxes, just the cartridges. $10 each!

www.igorcamera.com

Remember he is away on a buying trip right now!
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Old 03-31-2016   #62
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Sure you do! Right here at the RFF Gallery. Very easy to use it as an online intermediary...
I'll look into that today. Thanks Doug.
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Old 03-31-2016   #63
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You can also buy film from ORWO. They have 16 mm single and double perforated film in 100 to 1000 foot rolls. ASA 100 and 400. Also 35mm stock and some dupe films.
Thanks Rich. Who sells ORWO here in the US? I didn't see it on the B&H site. The film I bought has a rimjet backing because it is intended for reversal processing so I'll use a pre-wet to remove that before regular processing as a negative. Is the ORWO film a negative film or is it intended to be shot as reversal film?

Ah, found ORWO site! Yeah, looks good. Think I'll order 100ft. of the single perf, 100 ISO film. Good prices too. Thanks for the tip, wish I'd knew about them earlier.
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Old 03-31-2016   #64
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right here

http://www.orwona.com/brands/ORWO.html
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Old 03-31-2016   #65
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Thanks for the ORWO link, you beat me to it. Had to smile over the "Remember he is away on a buying trip right now!". I've been dealing with him for years and that's not to far off the mark.
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Old 03-31-2016   #66
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Thanks Rich. Who sells ORWO here in the US? I didn't see it on the B&H site. The film I bought has a rimjet backing because it is intended for reversal processing so I'll use a pre-wet to remove that before regular processing as a negative. Is the ORWO film a negative film or is it intended to be shot as reversal film?

Ah, found ORWO site! Yeah, looks good. Think I'll order 100ft. of the single perf, 100 ISO film. Good prices too. Thanks for the tip, wish I'd knew about them earlier.
I shoot a MEC 16SB and a Rollei 16 and was getting rather desperate because the various places that carried 16mm film were usually back ordered so I started a search in the best tradition of Sam *****.

Late one dank and drizzly night as I slogged through the desolate ispscape I happened to glimpse a red blinking light far away across the German border. While dancing around the establishment after my joyous arrival I discovered the U.S. site.
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Old 03-31-2016   #67
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Must be Political Correctness time. Sam ***** would be Sam alternate name for small shovel.
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Old 03-31-2016   #68
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Here is my new GOLD Minolta 16MG with eight more film cartridges.

2016-03-31 11.56.28 by Nokton48, on Flickr
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Old 03-31-2016   #69
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Here is my new GOLD Minolta 16MG with eight more film cartridges.
2016-03-31 11.56.28 by Nokton48, on Flickr
Congratulations! Nice score. Back in 1971 or so the MG was my first 16mm submini. I sold it when I got into 35mm but always toyed with the idea of getting a Minolta 16 again. It was not until about 2003 that I did some research on the Minolta 16mm cameras, by then made so easy by the internet. I found you could pick up 16II's all day long for $10 to $20 and they always seemed to work. Of all the models it has the most versatility for the least money and except for the lens being fixed focus at 2.5 meters and the need for both minus diopter lens for landscape and plus diopter lenses for closer shots it is a nice compact camera. If only Minolta had made the same model with a focusing lens it would have been perfect.
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Old 03-31-2016   #70
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I wanted two identical cameras for different film types; plus they operate and handle the same. I just compared both meters; they are reading the same.
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Old 03-31-2016   #71
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One more shot, taking an inventory of stuff. Almost everything is finally here.
Need to clean up the carts.

2016-03-31 15.46.18 by Nokton48, on Flickr
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Old 03-31-2016   #72
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That's very cool. And very gold. :-)

Having the two different color bodies will make it easy to tell them apart when you're out shooting.
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Old 03-31-2016   #73
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That's very cool. And very gold. :-)

Having the two different color bodies will make it easy to tell them apart when you're out shooting.
Thanks. That's the plan. One could have ISO 25 and the other ISO 400.
Both easily fit in my little Swedish Medical surplus bag, along with my other day stuff.
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Old 03-31-2016   #74
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The white residue from original tape should not cause any problem. Main thing is, grit and dirt stuck in the felts. Sometimes I use those tiny dental brushes to drag through the film slots. That and compressed air to blow out the slots. I always tape my cartridges with blue painters masking tape. It comes off without leaving a residue on the carts.

I'm sure you know this but, anyway.....
When loading carts in total darkness, take-your-time
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Old 04-01-2016   #75
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I'm about ready to start shooting some film. Maybe this weekend.
JOBO reels should be arriving today. That is the last thing to get started.

I found some AG1B bulbs, and tested, both camera fire bulbs (which is good!).
What is a good price to pay for AG1 & AG1B bulbs?
With B&W film is it better to use the clear bulbs? Do the blue ones work OK with B&W?
I have thirty six bulbs but I imagine those will go fast.
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Old 04-01-2016   #76
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The white residue from original tape should not cause any problem. Main thing is, grit and dirt stuck in the felts. Sometimes I use those tiny dental brushes to drag through the film slots. That and compressed air to blow out the slots. I always tape my cartridges with blue painters masking tape. It comes off without leaving a residue on the carts.

+1 Everything he said.
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Old 04-01-2016   #77
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I made the homemade "spinner stick", that will be handy. And now I'm ready to load some film. I found some old Panatomic-X, and Efke KB25, for slow stuff. And some good 'ole Tri-X which seems like a good place to start. I can get two rolls of 16mm from each 35mm cart.

2016-04-01 17.05.35 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Tommorrow it would be great to shoot a few rolls. We will see.
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Old 04-01-2016   #78
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This all brings back memories. I had moved to Chicago from rural Indiana to find work. I think I bought the Minolta MG the next summer, in 1970, of course I didn't load my own film or save cartridges, simply no need back then. The first place I used it, with some ASA80 color negative film was a trip to the Museum of Science and Industry. I remember taking pictures inside the U-505 submarine, with flash bulbs of course. Standard print size was 3.5 X 5 inches. Wish now I still had those prints and negs, long lost in some move or the other.

Sorry, old folks like to reminisce sometimes.
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Old 04-03-2016   #79
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This morning I loaded up two cartridges with Tri-X. Loading the carts was pretty straightforward, but one thing I discovered, is that I can get exactly three 18" strips from a 36 exposure roll (which is all I ever use), which is a good thing!

I did re-do the light traps on the bottom lid of each camera, so the cameras are loaded and I am ready to start shooting. Shown behind are carts are two JOBO 16 reels, which will hold two films per reel. Now comes the really fun part!

Oh, and I bought 144 AG1B bulbs, so I won't run out any time soon.

2016-04-03 10.54.29 by Nokton48, on Flickr
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Old 04-03-2016   #80
Timmyjoe
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Have fun.

Here's my issue with the cameras. While I love my 16QT and toss it in my pocket most times when I'm walking out the door, it does lead to the situation below.



Lots of exposed carts stacking up and not having the time to process it all.

But they are truly fun cameras.

Best,
-Tim
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