Old 03-24-2014   #41
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Electronics will not last indefinitely, but neither do mechanical devices. Happily the nature of mechanical stuff makes repair somewhat more feasible, especially when components may need to be specially fabricated.
The earliest Leica's did not come with guarantees that the film for the cameras would be available 80 or 100 years later, and there are plenty of functioning 100 year old cameras for which film is not available. It's really just a coincidence that you can still buy 35mm film for an 80 year old Leica, and that we're likely to be able to for some time to come.
That M8's may enjoy a much shorter lifetime than some of their non-electronic brethren is not a very happy fact, but it's the fate of pretty much every camera ever made, sooner or later.
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Old 03-24-2014   #42
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"Expect . . . soon" ISN'T a malevolent fantasy? Why should we expect it soon? It'll happen sooner or later, sure, but why "soon"?

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Whats the difference between soon and sooner, apart from the "er"? lol

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Old 03-24-2014   #43
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Do you have an example of a camera where High Iso of raw files was improved with a firmware update?
Since when does "crappy ISO" equate to High ISO of RAW files? What would you regard as High ISO?

Anyway,

http://bit.ly/1hgkwSD

Happy reading
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Old 03-24-2014   #44
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But why should leica still make these sensors? 7 years in digital technology is a lot of time, making it maybe not possible anymore.

The m8 is still a nice camera that may last for several years!

i don´t think the failure ratio is enough high to keep the sensor in production.
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Old 03-24-2014   #45
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Wow... people... it's a camera body. It's an expendable.

How many of you folks, besides me, who have posted to this thread currently own and use an M8? If you don't, then I don't see that you have a dog in this fight and I think it's a little premature to extrapolate the parts availability of the M8 to the M9 series. Despite the similarities in appearance, they're very different cameras internally.

If you don't like the business model Leica uses, then don't spend your money on their products. Cameras have a service life. All consumer goods do, advertising aside. That the Leica film bodies are still going after 75 years +/- is great, but to expect anything more than 10 years out of a digital anything isn't realistic. How many of you kept and used your Apple II or original IBM PC 8086 machines for 10 years? Most of them didn't last three in service. As the technology matures, the MTBF service life will lengthen because the technology becomes more reliable, and the mean time between significant improvement iterations lengthens, but a seven year run for a 2006 digital camera is pretty darn good. And frankly, MY M8 is still chugging along just fine. And when it doesn't I'll see what Leica is offering. Try to send you old broken Canikon in to the manufacturer for a discount on a new one and see what you get?

They're good, solid, albeit quirky, equipment from a solid manufacturer. That's life in the fast lane. I'm not necessarily defending the company, and Stephen's post as the OP was informative, but the angst here is a little over the top.
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Old 03-24-2014   #46
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Roger,

I don't "delight" in any such thing. "Malevolent fantasises"? Erm, no. Please see my original post. I am only providing documented evidence of Leica's bad character regarding their apathy when it comes to their previous digital generation and their customer base.

Also, further to this, please see Bob's example of the polar opposite end of customer service with Canon:



When Leica offer service that matches this, especially given that Canon are still doing this for the best price in the world (gratis), then come back to me and we'll discuss who is "delighting" in "malevolent fantasies" then.

Cheers,

C.
Chris,

I think if you scan past threads you'll see plenty of examples of Leica providing exceptional customer service to owner of M long out of warranty or purchased second hand.

As noted above, their currently produced film cameras can potentially be lifetime cameras. Their electronics are pretty simple and I have seen SLRs from over 30 years ago with LEDs and LCS still working. Digital? We'll see, but other manufacturers have had digital cameras on the used market for over 10 years (e.g. R-D1), and they seem to be going strong. Their death might be cause not by malfunction but the lack of availability for batteries or something similar.
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Old 03-24-2014   #47
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Do you have an example of a camera where High Iso of raw files was improved with a firmware update?
Phase One greatly improved high iso, although in MFBD high is a relative term, in capture One v7 over previous ones. The improvement was to all legacy backs as well as current. Other parameters were also improved, all these visibly so not just in numbers.
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Old 03-24-2014   #48
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Actually the M8 selling at around £1,000 has held its value. A Hasselblad H3D39 from 2008 sold for £22,000 and is now around £3,500 and that is with lens which can sell for around £1,000 on its own. The H3DII39 was reduced to around £12,000 for a fairer comparison, but people did pay £22,000 at that time.
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Old 03-24-2014   #49
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http://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/M-System_Brochure_en.pdf
Not many things last a lifetime. A Leica M often lasts
longer Anyone taking photographs is normally at the heart of life. In the heat or cold, in the rain or dust. The M needs to be durable, reliable and robust under all conceivable conditions. The question of durability is always a top priority in the development of a new M model. This is why only premium materials are used for its body : brass for the top and base plate and a high-strength magnesium alloy for the chassis. The digital technology components are also carefully selected to with- stand years of use. Sophisticated production techniques and painstaking assembly guarantee decades of reliable operation, allowing photog- raphers to enjoy their Leica M for as long as possible. For a lifetime in fact, often even by the next generation
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Old 03-24-2014   #50
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I would hazard a guess Leica will offer a similar upgrade deal to the one available to M8s affected by the coffee stain issue.
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Old 03-24-2014   #51
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If your avatar depicts you then it seems you are not a teenager anymore. Still believe in advertising?
You'll be telling me that Father Christmas doesn't exist next

As to my avatar, I have to admit that it is me, but not with a Leica.
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Old 03-24-2014   #52
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Proclamations of doom and gloom for all digital cameras is common fare for lots of threads.

That is a myth and has no basis in fact. Why shouldn't I expect a digital camera to last for 20 years?

My Pentax *ist DS is 10 years old this year and still going strong. Since it uses AA batteries I actually expect this one to last longer than most.

My Canon 5D (original) will turn 8 years old this year and is still faithfully chugging right along. Since it was a VERY popular camera I suspect the rechargeable batteries will remain available from 3rd parties as long as there is a market for them.

My Leica M9 is still working well and I bought it a little less than two years ago expecting it to last for a very long time. Since Leica has had the sense (or good fortune) to use the same battery in their M8, M8.2, M9 and ME then there is a chance that the battery will also remain available for a long time. I hope so.

Unexpected failure is always a possibility with anything, but it certainly is not something that has to happen. If you take care of your equipment, use it regularly and clean it whenever it needs it, then it should last a very long time, even (surprise) 20 or 30 years.

However, because of the massive marketing drives of the manufacturers people consider these cameras "obsolete" within two or three years. It just seems obvious that after 10 years at the outside that these digitals are ready for the dustbin. But it really isn't obsolete unless you can't get the pictures you want.

The Achilles heel for a lot of digital cameras is probably the battery. All batteries have a finite life and because most camera manufacturers are using purpose-built, rechargeable batteries, some of these cameras will go the way of the dodo bird, but not because of any fault with the camera itself.

Besides, it isn't like they are going to run out of film!
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Old 03-24-2014   #53
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I have had an M8 since they came out and, so far, it's been a good camera. Mine has developed a peculiarity and tries to recock the shutter several times, but with patience, it works. I bought it so I didn't have to cart DSLRs around when I was film shooting, just in case I needed a color photo. I had the, apparently false, expectation that a company that had touted the longevity of its equipment would stick by its customers. It became clear some time ago that my impression was the problem. Leica makes nice stuff. It just doesn't support its customers any better than Canon or Nikon.
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Old 03-24-2014   #54
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Leica..the maker of..future malevolent...doorstops..and hocky ..pucks...hahaha!
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Old 03-24-2014   #55
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Proclamations of doom and gloom for all digital cameras is common fare for lots of threads. . . .
Which was the reason for my original question: why? My M8 (2006) is still fine. So's my M9. Some people seem to want to believe that Leicas (in particular) will be worthless junk in two or three years. Yes. A very few will. Most won't. That's what I meant by "malevolent fantasies".

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Old 03-24-2014   #56
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However, because of the massive marketing drives of the manufacturers people consider these cameras "obsolete" within two or three years. It just seems obvious that after 10 years at the outside that these digitals are ready for the dustbin. But it really isn't obsolete unless you can't get the pictures you want.
1+
My Coolpix 3700 is 10 years old, works fine up to 8 x 10". The main challenge today is to find replacement memory cards with a small enough memory.
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Old 03-24-2014   #57
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However, because of the massive marketing drives of the manufacturers people consider these cameras "obsolete" within two or three years. It just seems obvious that after 10 years at the outside that these digitals are ready for the dustbin. But it really isn't obsolete unless you can't get the pictures you want.
Final Jeopardy: Answer "1 Day"

Question: How many days after a new digital camera is released do people on camera forums start posting about its replacement.
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Old 03-24-2014   #58
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The only "problem" with such a sensor death and burial is the price of the M8. If it had been a $450 camera, there would be less said here. Maybe this suggests that due to yearly innovations in digital technology, we should not buy an expensive digital camera.

I am crossing my fingers on my M8 and M9. If both fail, I will go back to film cameras.
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Old 03-24-2014   #59
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All, let's keep this on topic and forget about the arguments that aren't about the M8's sensor. Thanks.
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Old 03-24-2014   #60
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...... Why shouldn't I expect a digital camera to last for 20 years?
A fair question. A digital camera, replete with its necessary batteries, cards and chargers can go on for many many years without any great issue and certainly well beyond the period the manufacturer continues to support it. Personally I get the impression many expect, or perhaps more fairly desire, a lifetime of support for their chosen electronic product which I think we all know simply won't happen. However a lack of continued support and/or parts does not constitute the immediate end of its lifespan. I know of at least three experienced professional press photographers who still provide national and international newspapers with pictures from Nikon D1H bodies and not one of them is interested in dropping 5k on a new D4 when they can make money by 'making do.'

Having said all of the above I would always advise virtually any purchase to be made after much thought about depreciation, continued support/warranty, your personal needs/requirements and available cash. Doesn't matter if it's a car, camera or a marriage...( ) I've enjoyed using the M8 and M9 but made the very personal decision to sell out of the system and go with the 'cheaper' Fuji set-up even though the same issues are as likely to affect my Fuji as affect a Leica, it's simply a part of owning something that ages.

In the case of the M8 specifically, isn't this a problem that's come about through Kodak's implosion rather more than a decision from Leica to simply stop supporting this product entirely?
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Old 03-24-2014   #61
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The only "problem" with such a sensor death and burial is the price of the M8. If it had been a $450 camera, there would be less said here. Maybe this suggests that due to yearly innovations in digital technology, we should not buy an expensive digital camera.
Well, that was ultimately my tack.

As much as I did not like the conclusion, I sold all of my digital Leicas.

That said, and in fairness, the typical M8 fault is usually not the sensor!
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Old 03-24-2014   #62
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Phase One greatly improved high iso, although in MFBD high is a relative term, in capture One v7 over previous ones. The improvement was to all legacy backs as well as current. Other parameters were also improved, all these visibly so not just in numbers.
That's the point. The Raw converters got better over the time, not the cameras by firmware updates. That's a mistake people made with the M8. With every firmware update a new thread came and people discussed if the high iso quality is now better. Some saw an improvement but in the end they compared output from an older raw converter with the output of a newer raw converter.
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Old 03-24-2014   #63
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The only "problem" with such a sensor death and burial is the price of the M8. If it had been a $450 camera, there would be less said here. Maybe this suggests that due to yearly innovations in digital technology, we should not buy an expensive digital camera.

I am crossing my fingers on my M8 and M9. If both fail, I will go back to film cameras.
I don't think any digital camera buyer expects parts and service to be available "forever."

The upgrade service is a sign of good faith from Leica. I'm looking forward to hearing form people who have upgraded via sensor death. I would like to hear where, and for how much. Presumably the price of an upgrade could vary from country to country as well as the circumstances of the 8/8.2 demise. The sensor failure of a new white elephant M8 commemorative (just sold and out of the box) would likely be treated differently from a worn working M8 with 125,000 shutter activations.

Of course, there is also prudent caution when buying ANY commemorative digital camera at some huge premium (from ANY camera maker). Does anyone really think such a thing will be a good investment once its sensor is inevitably hopelessly outdated?


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Old 03-24-2014   #64
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I don't think any digital camera buyer expects parts and service to be available "forever."

The upgrade service is a sign of good faith from Leica. I'm looking forward to hearing form people who have upgraded via sensor death. I would like to hear where, and for how much. Presumably the price of an upgrade could vary from country to country as well as the circumstances of the 8/8.2 demise. The sensor failure of a new white elephant M8 commemorative (just sold and out of the box) would likely be treated differently from a worn working M8 with 125,000 shutter activations.

Of course, there is also prudent caution when buying ANY commemorative digital camera at some huge premium (from ANY camera maker). Does anyone really think such a thing will be a good investment once its sensor is inevitably hopelessly outdated?


Stephen
The key phrase, Stephen, is "hopelessly outdated" which does NOT equate with "obsolete" or "unusable" as intimated by some posters here. Once again, I appreciate Leica's good-will gesture, even while expecting not to have to take advantage of their offer for many years for MY M8. But it's good to know it's on the table.

Raid hit on the key to this whole thread... the price of the cameras...

I am not wealthy by any means. I'm a working photographer, but I paid the price of admission to Leica (all used, of course) and I have no qualms about it. If you do, then don't buy them. It's pretty simple, really.

Leica is sold with a two year warranty new (a third year can be purchased.) They don't offer a lifetime warranty, and despite their advertising shouldn't be construed as anything more than what they are. The problem is that people say "well, for THAT much money they should..." Well, no they shouldn't. And they can't. What you're buying is a hand-assembled, high-quality, hand-tested camera with current electronics technology (at the time of manufacture,) nothing more and nothing less. In this case, Leica is a victim of their own past successes with the longevity of their legacy products.

The bottom line remains that the M8 is a solid, if quirky, performer and will remain so as long as the cameras continue to operate. And there are thousands of them out there that will operate as designed for years to come. And it's nice to know that when they fail, Leica is ready to stand behind that product to the extent that they can, even though it may no longer be repairable. I think that's pretty good customer service.
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Old 03-24-2014   #65
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The key phrase, Stephen, is "hopelessly outdated" which does NOT equate with "obsolete" or "unusable" as intimated by some posters here. Once again, I appreciate Leica's good-will gesture, even while expecting not to have to take advantage of their offer for many years for MY M8. But it's good to know it's on the table.

Raid hit on the key to this whole thread... the price of the cameras...

I am not wealthy by any means. I'm a working photographer, but I paid the price of admission to Leica (all used, of course) and I have no qualms about it. If you do, then don't buy them. It's pretty simple, really.

Leica is sold with a two year warranty new (a third year can be purchased.) They don't offer a lifetime warranty, and despite their advertising shouldn't be construed as anything more than what they are. The problem is that people say "well, for THAT much money they should..." Well, no they shouldn't. And they can't. What you're buying is a hand-assembled, high-quality, hand-tested camera with current electronics technology (at the time of manufacture nothing more and nothing less. In this case, Leica is a victim of their own past successes with the longevity of their legacy products.

The bottom line remains that the M8 is a solid, if quirky, performer and will remain so as long as the cameras continue to operate. And there are thousands of them out there that will operate as designed for years to come. And it's nice to know that when they fail, Leica is ready to stand behind that product to the extent that they can, even though it may no longer be repairable. I think that's pretty good customer service.
That`s a more measured reflection on the situation.
I agree that they are a victim of their own past in this regard and the resultant expectations of their customers.

How they deal with those issues is , I guess , a matter for them.
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Old 03-24-2014   #66
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Thing is..if the digital M cam could actually and reliably keep going for 8 to 12 years..and I'm sure some will..not all will...but some...may..
..then your intial investment can be amortized over a longer period of time..
about 15 to 20 bux per week..over the lifetime of the cam..
But if it lived for only 4 to 5 years..then its kind of like... hmmm..
And 4 to 5 years..is for computer products..pretty much the limit for reliability..as well as staying current in technology...
With an older used film M..the mantra is..condition condition condition..
With a digital cam..its..price price price..
Leica M is so expensive..when 1 lil itty bitty part goes that cant be replaced..so does your cash...right out the window..
If I were to eventually buy one..and I probably will..its probably best to just dump it every 2 to 3 years...and buy the next model..as they hold value pretty well..and use the cash to stay current...keep the warrantee intact..and eliminate..the dreaded ..we cant fix it anymore..M owner..shock....
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Old 03-24-2014   #67
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I don't think any digital camera buyer expects parts and service to be available "forever."

The upgrade service is a sign of good faith from Leica. I'm looking forward to hearing form people who have upgraded via sensor death. I would like to hear where, and for how much.
Stephen
I'll chime in with my experience. This was about 2 years ago.
I had a second hand M8 that developed the coffee stain issue. I sent it to Leica NJ, with the admission upfront that it was a second hand camera. They had it for a week or two and called me to let me know that it could not be repaired. She asked me to hold tight for a couple of weeks while they waited to hear from Germany what the conclusion would be.
They called me back to tell me that Solms had decided to offer me a new M9 for $2300. I would have to wait a couple of months for delivery because it had to come from the factory, they were not allowed to give out cameras from their inventory.
I was given the option of a standard M9, or the then-fairly-new M-P for a little more money. I opted for the standard M9. I would probably have gone for a Monochrom if they were available, but they had not yet been announced.

If you look at this objectively, Leica were very generous with me. I've bought one new Leica lens in all the years I've been using their gear, and I've probably owned north of a hundred lenses. They could have told me to pound sand, but they honored an out of warranty camera that was traded to me by someone who bought it in the US, grey market from England! Also, M9s were out of stock everywhere for a long time, and to take a hit like this in the middle of an inventory shortage is commendable.

Before the coffee stain issue, I sent my M8 in for what looked like lines in my images. They replaced the sensor and gave the body a CLA, for no charge.

I guess I don't reply to much on here anymore because the Leica bashing gets old. There actually are really decent people working there, and the guy who owns the place seems like he genuinely loves his company. I don't think they showed me any favoritism, why would they? I will say that I have never had a conversation with anyone there that wasn't polite and pleasant. After the whole thing was done, I sent an email to my contacts supervisor, praising her professionalism. I also copied it to Mr. Kauffman.

Just my .02.

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Old 03-24-2014   #68
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I had a second hand M8 that developed the coffee stain issue.
I hope the replacement offer for failed sensor will be significantly better than for the coffee stain issue. There's a significant difference between a dead camera and a cosmetic issue on a fully functioning one.
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Old 03-24-2014   #69
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I hope the replacement offer for failed sensor will be significantly better than for the coffee stain issue. There's a significant difference between a dead camera and a cosmetic issue on a fully functioning one.
Where does this sense of entitlement come from? The camera has a specific period of warranty that eventually ends. Why would you expect them to extend that time? Does Nikon or Canon warranty their cameras forever?
The transmission in my car is starting to show signs of failure. Should Mercedes replace it, even though the warranty ended 5 years ago?
Did Kodak give away millions of rolls of film to their customers who felt they should keep producing 126 film?
It's absurd to expect anyone to warranty something forever, unless they say they will warranty it forever. If you don't like the terms of the sale, don't buy the camera.
I think they should be applauded for taking care of as many of their customers as they can.
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Old 03-24-2014   #70
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Where does this sense of entitlement come from? The camera has a specific period of warranty that eventually ends. Why would you expect them to extend that time? Does Nikon or Canon warranty their cameras forever?
The transmission in my car is starting to show signs of failure. Should Mercedes replace it, even though the warranty ended 5 years ago?
Did Kodak give away millions of rolls of film to their customers who felt they should keep producing 126 film?
It's absurd to expect anyone to warranty something forever, unless they say they will warranty it forever. If you don't like the terms of the sale, don't buy the camera.
I think they should be applauded for taking care of as many of their customers as they can.
+100

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly.
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Old 03-24-2014   #71
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Originally Posted by bob338 View Post

Where does this sense of entitlement come from? The camera has a specific period of warranty that eventually ends. Why would you expect them to extend that time? Does Nikon or Canon warranty their cameras forever?
The transmission in my car is starting to show signs of failure. Should Mercedes replace it, even though the warranty ended 5 years ago?
Did Kodak give away millions of rolls of film to their customers who felt they should keep producing 126 film?
It's absurd to expect anyone to warranty something forever, unless they say they will warranty it forever. If you don't like the terms of the sale, don't buy the camera.
I think they should be applauded for taking care of as many of their customers as they can.
Warranty no, repair at actual cost ... yes!
Time will tell. If the exchange value balanced with an actual replacement of dead sensor cost then kudos Leica.
If it's BS then Eff em.

It's a premium product it should have premium support. Period!
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Old 03-24-2014   #72
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Originally Posted by bob338 View Post
Where does this sense of entitlement come from? The camera has a specific period of warranty that eventually ends. Why would you expect them to extend that time? Does Nikon or Canon warranty their cameras forever?
Don't make stuff up, please. There is no entitlement here at all. Like I said, I hope the replacement offer for a dead camera (which I assume they would fix given a newly found supply of M8 sensors) is better than for a cosmetic issue on a functioning camera. This has nothing to do with Nikon or Canon. I like the product, the terms of sale, and I have no complaints about Leica customer service.
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Old 03-25-2014   #74
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The transmission in my car is starting to show signs of failure. Should Mercedes replace it, even though the warranty ended 5 years ago? ...I think they should be applauded for taking care of as many of their customers as they can.
Well that's not an analogous situation at all.

This is like you were suddenly told no-one can fix the gearbox in your Mercedes anymore, and when it breaks you have a worthless chunk of metal on your hands that you can't even sell for spares.

So when you want to fix it instead of the cost being $1300 from your local workshop, Mercedes offers to let you buy a new car from them for the reduced price of $88,000. Just think - when your gearbox fails they give you the chance to save $12,000 on a new car!
Now I call that generous!
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Old 03-25-2014   #75
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Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
Warranty no, repair at actual cost ... yes!

It's a premium product it should have premium support. Period!
It appears that they do offer premium support; at least no other manufacturer I know of offers what they do.

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Well that's not an analogous situation at all.

This is like you were suddenly told no-one can fix the gearbox in your Mercedes anymore, and when it breaks you have a worthless chunk of metal on your hands that you can't even sell for spares.

So when you want to fix it instead of the cost being $1300 from your local workshop, Mercedes offers to let you buy a new car from them for the reduced price of $88,000. Just think - when your gearbox fails they give you the chance to save $12,000 on a new car!
Now I call that generous!
Actually, it is analogous, and it would be quite generous. Except that in Bob's case, Leica offered a $6,000 replacement camera for $2,300; in your analogy with the same Mercedes at the same percentage of discount, they'd offer you an $88,000 car for $30,000.
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Old 03-25-2014   #76
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In the case of the M8 specifically, isn't this a problem that's come about through Kodak's implosion rather more than a decision from Leica to simply stop supporting this product entirely?
Thank you Simon. I pointed that out in an earlier post, #36. The sensors have nothing to do with Leica since they were made by Kodak. Kodak sold off their sensor division to stay afloat. Somewhat ironic isn't it? Kodak developed the digital sensor, but through early and continued mismanagement, didn't see the potential before everyone else ran away with the ball. By then it was too late to catch up.

http://www.cnet.com/news/kodaks-imag...ame-truesense/

If you want your sensors, complain to Truesense Imaging. Maybe, just maybe, they will offer replacements.
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Old 03-25-2014   #77
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i marvel at 4 pages on this topic, and how so many, after scores of such topics, continue to believe they can with reason convert the zealot on even minor points. we cant, stop wasting time; the mercedes 'analogy' amply demostrates the diehard commitment to an alternate reality. a nod is the same as a wink to a blind horse.
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Old 03-25-2014   #78
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i marvel at 4 pages on this topic, and how so many, after scores of such topics, continue to believe they can with reason convert the zealot on even minor points. we cant, stop wasting time; the mercedes 'analogy' amply demostrates the diehard commitment to an alternate reality. a nod is the same as a wink to a blind horse.
Your post is enigmatic.
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Old 03-25-2014   #79
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I've been told unofficially that Leica is out of the M8 / 8.2 sensors and will not be getting more.

Apparently what is being done instead is the Leica importer in that country offering the customer a credit upgrade towards a current production Monochrome or ME or M240 - or sometimes a refurbished M9 if they are available.

The amount of the credit and towards what camera seems to be dependent upon what you can negotiate with your national importer.

If anyone has additional details, please share.

Stephen
I've gone back over this thread - all 4 agonizing pages of it so far - and no one has been able to confirm Stephen's suspicions.

We all (myself included of course) naturally assumed that what Stephen said was "law" per se.

So, has anyone had any official confirmation from Leica on this?

Cheers,
Dave
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Old 03-25-2014   #80
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Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
It appears that they do offer premium support; at least no other manufacturer I know of offers what they do.



Actually, it is analogous, and it would be quite generous. Except that in Bob's case, Leica offered a $6,000 replacement camera for $2,300; in your analogy with the same Mercedes at the same percentage of discount, they'd offer you an $88,000 car for $30,000.
The original analogy was not accurate because it stated people were expecting their equipment to be fixed for free. Take a look at the next part for instance: "Did Kodak give away millions of rolls of film to their customers who felt they should keep producing 126 film?"

These are inappropriate analogies because no-one is expecting to get anything for free; customers are hoping their cameras can be fixed for a reasonable and proportionate amount of money (less than five years after that camera was discontinued).

As for the figures you quote, at this stage I have no idea whether they are realistic or not - I made-up some nonsense numbers for fictional Mercedes cars and you've taken one example posted in the thread and extrapolated from another figure to make it look like an extremely generous policy. Two points:

- it's generous if the customer both wants a new camera and also if that person actually has the much greater amount of money to purchase it, instead of the cheaper option of fixing the old camera (the option that's no longer available).
Many people will be left with a brick because they can't afford the discounted cost of an entirely new replacement, whereas a sensor might have been within their means (they might even prefer the look and operation of their original camera - not everyone likes the treadmill of 'upgrades').

- the actual exchange amounts for M8s varies considerably, I've read and heard of widely differing amounts depending on all sorts of factors. One generous example in this thread isn't necessarily representative - and that ad hoc inconsistency is part of the problem with the whole exchange scheme.

Anyway I'm not going to pursue this discussion. My own disillusion with Leica's digital cameras and the entire commodity direction in which Leica is headed meant that I sold my digital Leicas and the majority of M lenses over the last couple years. It's not my fight anymore, and I'm definitely not going to go through the antipathy and trolling that seems inevitably to always accompany these sorts of discussions.
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