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Double check the pledge amounts...
Old 04-13-2013   #81
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Double check the pledge amounts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
So. I wonder how many 90mm lenses there are out on the used market, and whether their availability will be able to match the 100,000 or so cameras that might be manufactured.

Are we to assume all of these 90mm lenses on the used market have (reasonably) accurate shutters?

And then there's the matter of price inflation of the lenses. If I were bidding on this camera, I'd be looking to acquire a lens right now!

Too bad the cameras don't already come with the lens, that way a purchaser can be guaranteed a functional camera system up front.

~Joe
One of the pledges is for a 90mm body WITH an Angulon 90mm in shutter.
Also, another pledge is for a 65mm body WITH a 65mm lens in shutter.

It's all been very well thought out. For details look at all the pledge amounts. Frankly the amount for the 90 body with the 90mm Angulon is at a good price point.

Pledges are still being taken. The Kickstarter Project looks like it will have a $10,000 day, today alone. If each remaining day would receive pledges of $5000, that would add another $90,000 for a total of $165,000 and about 1500 camera's. Optimistic....????
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Old 04-14-2013   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
So. I wonder how many 90mm lenses there are out on the used market, and whether their availability will be able to match the 100,000 or so cameras that might be manufactured.

Are we to assume all of these 90mm lenses on the used market have (reasonably) accurate shutters?

And then there's the matter of price inflation of the lenses. If I were bidding on this camera, I'd be looking to acquire a lens right now!

Too bad the cameras don't already come with the lens, that way a purchaser can be guaranteed a functional camera system up front.

~Joe
Joe, it is a function system up front: we will ship the cameras with a pinhole, so you can make images right away if you don't have a lens.

Schneider, Nikon, Rodenstock, Fuji and others manufactured a simply gigantic number of 90mm lenses from the 30s and 40s through the 80s. It's no exaggeration to say there are millions of 90mm large format lenses out there. The shutters tend to be in good shape; they're pretty simple mechanical clockwork shutters.

I guarantee we will not sell 100,000 of these cameras. It's simply not that type of product! We would be lucky to sell 1/10th of that, spread out over the next 10 years. But even that many is highly improbable.
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Old 04-14-2013   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
So. I wonder how many 90mm lenses there are out on the used market, and whether their availability will be able to match the 100,000 or so cameras that might be manufactured.

Are we to assume all of these 90mm lenses on the used market have (reasonably) accurate shutters?

And then there's the matter of price inflation of the lenses. If I were bidding on this camera, I'd be looking to acquire a lens right now!

Too bad the cameras don't already come with the lens, that way a purchaser can be guaranteed a functional camera system up front.

~Joe
Absolutely ridiculous numbers, believe me. Most of the shutters are pretty good, too (Compurs). If, as I sincerely hope, they sell several thousand cameras, it ain't even gonna dent the supply of lenses available.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-14-2013   #84
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It isn't a rangefinder but the designers cleverly put three shoes on top so you can add whatever you like - rangefinder, light meter, or maybe even a flash.
This is a very nice idea. What you like from traditional large format is perspective control but than can be corrected in post-processing after scanning.
I congratulate the designers on a clever, simple idea.
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Old 04-14-2013   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
Too bad the cameras don't already come with the lens, that way a purchaser can be guaranteed a functional camera system up front.

~Joe
Who knows? If they sell well, perhaps this will become an option further down the line.
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Old 04-14-2013   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
So. I wonder how many 90mm lenses there are out on the used market, and whether their availability will be able to match the 100,000 or so cameras that might be manufactured.

~Joe
If they would produce 100,000 cameras, I think Schneider could make a healthy profit putting the 90mm angulon back in production.
The number of cameras that are pledged for are an impressive achievement as it is.
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Old 04-14-2013   #87
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I wish you the very best of luck with this. The price is very compelling, and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I wasn't moving to Australia soon, and I need to shift more "stuff" not buy it.

I already have a 4x5 camera, but a cheaper one I can sling in a rucksack sounds interesting.
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For those concerned about lenses.
Old 04-14-2013   #88
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For those concerned about lenses.

FWIW, over the last ten years, I have purchased 7 Schneider 90mm f6.8. Angulons. Have never had a Super Angulon.

I have never waited long for one when I decided to pursue one. They came in various shutters... Linhof Technika, Synchro Compur, Seiko, etc. Not in one case have I had to have one serviced.

As far as alternatives.

Rodenstock Geronar 90mm - there are four on eBay right now, with 4 sold in the last 60 days, as low as $100... mostly $200-300. Modern lens, modern shutters.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...ar+90&_sacat=0

listed now or sold last 60 days... Caltar 90mm made for Rodenstock or Schneider for the marketing company CALUMET...25 lenses, again from $150 up. Remember the Calumet Cadet, a monorail 4X5 purchased in huge numbers by schools teaching Large Format photograpy. When purchased with lenses, they most often had Calumet Caltar or CaltarII lenses

-40 active listings of other Rodenstock 90mm
-50+ sold Rodenstock 90mm in the last 60 days
-150 Schneider 90mm angulon and super angulons
-200 sold Schneider 90mm in the last 60 days
-Another 30 assorted 90mm in active listings

There is even a Rodenstock Heligon 90mm in Linhof Synchro Compur shutter that has an f3.2 aperture. OOOOOOOH Boken!!! (pricey),

Link to the Heligon:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linhof-Roden...item564b44eeba

The eBay seller selling the Heligon has over 6,000 items listed, mostly photographic gear, and a very good 99.8 positive transaction rating on over 5000 feedbacks.

with regard to two common complaints about hand held and PS large format. Many complain about no movements. I personally have probably NOT used movements on any number of field and monorail camera's over the last decade.

Often people complain about no movements, and don't use them when they have them,.... DUH???

Last, this is the perfect camera for me... particularly on one front.

It's $100!!! Think how much money you have left to spend on lenses. I do.

And, my point here is, there are a ton of lenses out there. Even the most Anal Retentive person in the world can find that perfect lens with the time left before we hold a Travelwide in our hands.

I'm not even financially involved in this project, and it's met goal, and I still say Pledge, Pledge, Pledge, and tell others.

OK.. NOW.. very last point. SK Grimes lists the cost of most shutter CLA's at $100 to $125 if no other significant issues are present. See their new web site at:

http://www.skgrimes.com/
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Old 04-14-2013   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Hi guys,

I'm the creator of the Travelwide, along with my friend Justin. \
Kudos for building something truly unique and interesting for us. I just bought in, any chance you can get them produced earlier than December?

Now I just have to get the lens and film holders...
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Old 04-14-2013   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
FWIW, over the last ten years, I have purchased 7 Schneider 90mm f6.8. Angulons. Have never had a Super Angulon.

I have never waited long for one when I decided to pursue one. They came in various shutters... Linhof Technika, Synchro Compur, Seiko, etc. Not in one case have I had to have one serviced.

As far as alternatives.

Rodenstock Geronar 90mm - there are four on eBay right now, with 4 sold in the last 60 days, as low as $100... mostly $200-300. Modern lens, modern shutters.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...ar+90&_sacat=0

listed now or sold last 60 days... Caltar 90mm made for Rodenstock or Schneider for the marketing company CALUMET...25 lenses, again from $150 up. Remember the Calumet Cadet, a monorail 4X5 purchased in huge numbers by schools teaching Large Format photograpy. When purchased with lenses, they most often had Calumet Caltar or CaltarII lenses

-40 active listings of other Rodenstock 90mm
-50+ sold Rodenstock 90mm in the last 60 days
-150 Schneider 90mm angulon and super angulons
-200 sold Schneider 90mm in the last 60 days
-Another 30 assorted 90mm in active listings

There is even a Rodenstock Heligon 90mm in Linhof Synchro Compur shutter that has an f3.2 aperture. OOOOOOOH Boken!!! (pricey),

Link to the Heligon:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linhof-Roden...item564b44eeba

The eBay seller selling the Heligon has over 6,000 items listed, mostly photographic gear, and a very good 99.8 positive transaction rating on over 5000 feedbacks.

with regard to two common complaints about hand held and PS large format. Many complain about no movements. I personally have probably NOT used movements on any number of field and monorail camera's over the last decade.

Often people complain about no movements, and don't use them when they have them,.... DUH???


Last, this is the perfect camera for me... particularly on one front.

It's $100!!! Think how much money you have left to spend on lenses. I do.

And, my point here is, there are a ton of lenses out there. Even the most Anal Retentive person in the world can find that perfect lens with the time left before we hold a Travelwide in our hands.

I'm not even financially involved in this project, and it's met goal, and I still say Pledge, Pledge, Pledge, and tell others.

OK.. NOW.. very last point. SK Grimes lists the cost of most shutter CLA's at $100 to $125 if no other significant issues are present. See their new web site at:

http://www.skgrimes.com/
And I personally have. Many (I among them) regard movements as one of the major advantages of LF. Why not use them if they're available? Because you don't know how? To quote you, DUH???

There are those who don't use 'em 'cos they don't want to. Fine. There are also those who don't use 'em 'cos they don't know how.

How do I know? 'Cos I was one. Then I learned how to use them...

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-14-2013   #91
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Guys, I had a chance to play with Ben's prototype today at the Chicago GTG. It's a winner!

I decided to go with a 65mm version...
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Hmm at the risk.....
Old 04-14-2013   #92
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Hmm at the risk.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
And I personally have. Many (I among them) regard movements as one of the major advantages of LF. Why not use them if they're available? Because you don't know how? To quote you, DUH???

There are those who don't use 'em 'cos they don't want to. Fine. There are also those who don't use 'em 'cos they don't know how.

How do I know? 'Cos I was one. Then I learned how to use them...

Cheers,

R.
At the risk of what I said being a put down to some,

And considering that I don't think you are responding in kind (you've never seemed like the type).

My answer would be PITA and Waste of my talents for other reasons. Admittedly, I don't know much about using them. I've been shooting alongside two other LF shooters for many years, and they are always tweaking their movements. Just can't see it.

Personal choice, and I didn't say people are foolish for using them. I'm just saying this camera is a way to get into LF, and if one finds movements enhance their photography in a way that is meaningful to them personally, go for it.
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Old 04-14-2013   #93
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Woot - I even found a 65 at less than highway robbery prices! Hopefully it will work - I didn't notice it was in Synchro Compur until after I did the BIN.
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Old 04-14-2013   #94
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The syncro compur, usually mounts the same as the copals. And would be even easier to use in the field. Since it's the 65 version, you might need to shim a bit to get hyperfocal focus right - but you should be all set.

I got to handle the prototype today as well. It looks like a fun system for those who want a basic, hand holdable, large format rig. Very light and easy to handle. Not sure it's for me and the way I shoot, but really a great tool.
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Old 04-14-2013   #95
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That makes me feel a little better - I freaked and PMed Ben too.
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Old 04-14-2013   #96
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Worst case scenario, I'll buy it off you.
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Old 04-14-2013   #97
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Hopefully it won't come to that!
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Old 04-14-2013   #98
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Liam, Ben confirmed the same as you - I'm golden with this one. Hopefully the condition is as good as claimed!

Now, where did I put the box with my film holders?
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Old 04-15-2013   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
At the risk of what I said being a put down to some,

And considering that I don't think you are responding in kind (you've never seemed like the type).

My answer would be PITA and Waste of my talents for other reasons. Admittedly, I don't know much about using them. I've been shooting alongside two other LF shooters for many years, and they are always tweaking their movements. Just can't see it.

Personal choice, and I didn't say people are foolish for using them. I'm just saying this camera is a way to get into LF, and if one finds movements enhance their photography in a way that is meaningful to them personally, go for it.
Sorry. It was the 'DUH???' that got me. As you say, LF is a broad church, and everyone should use whatever approach they find useful. But it's pointless for either of us to pretend that movements are either useless or the be-all and end-all of LF.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-15-2013   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Hi guys,

I'm the creator of the Travelwide, along with my friend Justin. TRUST ME when I say this camera is lighter and easier in the field than a Graphic. I took a Super Graphic all over Bali a year and a half ago. In October I went to Brazil with the Travelwide, and there is no comparison. 5+ pounds versus less than one pound? It makes a huge difference. HUGE.

Honestly I'm a little surprised to see this camera pooh-poohed by users on this forum. I'm a longtime RFF fan, and I basically made this camera for you. It's lighter than a Zeiss Ikon, which is lighter than an M3. And it's 4x5!

To get a better sense of what's possible, take a look at the sample images on our Flickr:
http://flickr.com/photos/wanderlustcamera

These are not "demo" images. They're real snapshots I took while traveling or hanging out. Most of them are wide open (/6.8). The Angulon is not a clinical modern lens, so you won't see the detail at 4000 DPI that you would with a Zeiss. But then again, you don't need it. A slightly out-of-focus shot on 4x5 will beat the pants off the best Leica lenses and an M7.

Anyway, this camera is what it is: a tough, $99 hardbody scale focus camera that weighs basically nothing and lets you pack a 4x5 in addition to your normal camera setup. When I was designing it, the RFF community really was foremost in my mind. So I hope you guys like it and spread the word.

Thanks!
It looks darn cool to me, even if I'm not sure i want to get into yet another film format. I've made my commitments to 6x6 and 35mm, will likely stick there. But .. I never say never. :-)

G
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Old 04-15-2013   #101
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I just couldn't resist (now on the look out for a lens). A have all the gear for developing the film for my Crown Graphic. The dilemma is scanning as my Minolta Scan Multi Pro only goes up to 6x9 and my enlarger 6x7.

Looks like a flatbed or a LF enlarger (or both). Now the price goes up
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Old 04-15-2013   #102
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Or use it with my 6x9 Graflex 120 Roll holder...
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Old 04-15-2013   #103
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I've been looking around at home processing options and found this gadget:

http://www.mod54.com/

Hopefully a flatbed scanner that will do justice to 4x5 negs won't break the bank.
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Old 04-15-2013   #104
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Kuzano,

The 90 f8 Geronar looks like an interesting option. How much larger and heavier is it compared to the suggested 90 f6.8 Angulon?
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Old 04-15-2013   #105
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Thumbs up

Around 800 new 4x5s will hit the streets this year -- has anyone told Kodak to start the film coating machines?

Congrats to Ben and Justin -- and congrats to all you, for making this happen (and therefore for finally getting me a non-tripod mounted 4x5)
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Old 04-15-2013   #106
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Around 800 new 4x5s will hit the streets this year -- has anyone told Kodak to start the film coating machines?

Congrats to Ben and Justin -- and congrats to all you, for making this happen (and therefore for finally getting me a non-tripod mounted 4x5)
If everyone uses 50 sheets a year, this is 4000 sheets -- hardly worth re-starting a coating line for! Ilford will be WELL able to meet demand. Bear in mind too that Ilford sold well over 1000 of the Walker pinhole in the first year, and that their new Harman Obscura pin-hole comes out soon. Shortage of film is not a concern.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-15-2013   #107
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Uh-oh - I'm starting to talk myself into ordering the 90mm version too. Put a pinhole in it for now and watch for a lens. I have a photographic project in mind...

Does anyone know if you can change a Kickstarter pledge?
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Leica: M-P Typ 240 - M6 - Leicavit M - RapidWinder - Motor M - 21 Super-Elmar - 28 Ultron - 35 Summicron ASPH - 40 Summicron - 75 APO-Summicron ASPH - 75 Summarit-M - 75 Color-Heliar - 90 Elmar-C
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Old 04-15-2013   #108
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Uh-oh - I'm starting to talk myself into ordering the 90mm version too. Put a pinhole in it for now and watch for a lens. I have a photographic project in mind...

Does anyone know if you can change a Kickstarter pledge?
You can, however you're only able to get one reward level per person. This means you would need to jump to the $189 level for both cameras. Fine if you pledged at $99, but if you were an early adopter it could end up costing you more.
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Old 04-15-2013   #109
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If everyone uses 50 sheets a year, this is 4000 sheets -- hardly worth re-starting a coating line for! Ilford will be WELL able to meet demand. Bear in mind too that Ilford sold well over 1000 of the Walker pinhole in the first year, and that their new Harman Obscura pin-hole comes out soon. Shortage of film is not a concern.

Cheers,

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Actually 40,000 sheets
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Old 04-15-2013   #110
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Actually 40,000 sheets
40,000 sheets per year, that's about 4,000 sheets per month...
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Old 04-15-2013   #111
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Actually 40,000 sheets
Dear Mike,

Whoops. You are of course absolutely right. But even allowing for my hopelessly sloppy order-of-magnitude error, the argument still holds good. That's the equivalent (roughly) of 10,000 rolls of 35mm film: still not very much when it comes to running a coating line.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-15-2013   #112
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Dear Mike,

Whoops. You are of course absolutely right. But even allowing for my hopelessly sloppy order-of-magnitude error, the argument still holds good. That's the equivalent (roughly) of 10,000 rolls of 35mm film: still not very much when it comes to running a coating line.

Cheers,

R.
No worries...
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Old 04-15-2013   #113
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Originally Posted by pdexposures View Post
You can, however you're only able to get one reward level per person. This means you would need to jump to the $189 level for both cameras. Fine if you pledged at $99, but if you were an early adopter it could end up costing you more.
I'm at the $99 level, so it wouldn't be a problem. Tempting...
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I've owned a number......
Old 04-15-2013   #114
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I've owned a number......

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Kuzano,

The 90 f8 Geronar looks like an interesting option. How much larger and heavier is it compared to the suggested 90 f6.8 Angulon?
The Geronar is minimally larger than the Schneider Angulon. The glass however is bigger, likely for a better optical performance result. I'd say it sticks out from the more than the Angulon/Synchro Compur shutter less than 1/4 inch more in front. It is a contemporary lens, and considering what's happening to the Angulon prices (partly as a result for now of this project) can likely be purchase for little more.

The back of the Geronar is likely not protruding into the camera more than the Schneider. I believe a goal of the design was to create a lens that could readily be folded into a field camera without removing from the front standard. So in this case not much bigger. Weight... hmmm. It certainly will not make the travelwide more front heavy than those planning to use Super Angulons or similar Rodenstocks with larger optic front/rear cells.

I doubt the weight would be more than marginal and not objectionable for the improved image quality and much newer optics and shutter when compared to the Schneider Angulon in Linhof or Compur shutter.

I've held both lenses at different times, and calculate them to be very similar in these aspects. Your findings may be subjectively different than mine.

I have the Angulon 90, but I will likely purchase a Geronar 90 for this project.

I located an ebay listing that has a profile view of the Geronar in a Copal 1 shutter. This listing also has all the specs you asked about. However, this listing is one of higher priced that I see for this lens. You can do better. This listing is merely to answer your questions. Also, Geronars seem plentiful. They were sold in great numbers as teaching lens AND also come in Calumet Branding as a Caltar, often for less money used simply due to brand recognition. Rarely are branded lenses "seconds" as many people assume. I would not recoil from a Rodenstock branded Caltar any more than from the Rodenstock itself.

However, if you have a Caltar, and you go to the country club bar, you may have to sit at the bar instead of at the tables with the big boys.

Don't worry about buying the Rodenstock I showed you from under me. It's a bit pricey and there will be a ton more pass through eBay before my Travelwides arrive.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-G...item35c132f8ed
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Old 04-15-2013   #115
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I have a Wollensak Raptar 90mm 6.8 with the Rapax shutter. These are basically cheap-as-chips. Mine was $70? Perfect condition. I wonder if this would work with the Travelwide?
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Old 04-15-2013   #116
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[quote=kuzano;2119281]The Geronar is minimally larger than the Schneider Angulon. The glass however is bigger, likely for a better optical performance result. I'd say it sticks out from the more than the Angulon/Synchro Compur shutter less than 1/4 inch more in front. It is a contemporary lens, and considering what's happening to the Angulon prices (partly as a result for now of this project) can likely be purchase for little more.

Kuzano'
Thanks for all that information. I'm still feeling my way here and won't rush into a purchase but thanks to your reply to my question the Geronar is on my short list now.
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Should be a very good solution and SMALL
Old 04-15-2013   #117
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Should be a very good solution and SMALL

Quote:
Originally Posted by benlees View Post
I have a Wollensak Raptar 90mm 6.8 with the Rapax shutter. These are basically cheap-as-chips. Mine was $70? Perfect condition. I wonder if this would work with the Travelwide?
Wollensak also made a Raptar W. A. which might actually be the one you have. It would say Raptar 90 w. a. as I recall

Wollensak also made a lens called an Optar 90, but I think that was branded for Graflex so there is a Graflex 90 w a. Could be the same as the one you have.

See this page for variations of Wollensak 90s.

http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic...ld-lenses.html

In any event... this all should be evidence that there is likely way more inventory in 90mm lenses than will be sucked up by this Kickstarter project.
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Old 04-15-2013   #118
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The Geronar is minimally larger than the Schneider Angulon. The glass however is bigger, likely for a better optical performance result.
Hi guys! The Geronar is typically mounted in a Copal 1, which means you would need to make a permanent modification to the camera. It's not a big deal if you don't mind Dremeling your Travelwide, but I just wanted to be sure to point out that it will not mount on the camera as-is.
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Sorry for the oversight....
Old 04-15-2013   #119
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Sorry for the oversight....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Hi guys! The Geronar is typically mounted in a Copal 1, which means you would need to make a permanent modification to the camera. It's not a big deal if you don't mind Dremeling your Travelwide, but I just wanted to be sure to point out that it will not mount on the camera as-is.
Sorry Ben,

I've been hyping the Geronar, and I knew the shutters have typically been a copal 1. It just did not occur to me that a Copal 1 needs a slightly bigger hole than a Copal O, which is what the Schneider will typically come in in terms of shutter rear dimension. The Linhof and Compur shutters are the same size as the Copal O.

Is it safe to presume the Travelwide comes drilled for a #0 shutter at 34.7mm

I will probably enlarge to put the Geronar on, as once I have this camera outfitted with a lens, I will likely not change from the geronar. The enlargement from #0 (34.7mm) to #1 (41.8)=7mm bigger/2=3.5mm larger around the edge of the hole.
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Old 04-15-2013   #120
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Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
I will probably enlarge to put the Geronar on, as once I have this camera outfitted with a lens, I will likely not change from the geronar. The enlargement from #0 (34.7mm) to #1 (41.8)=7mm bigger/2=3.5mm larger around the edge of the hole.
It's actually more complicated than that. Although the 90mm Geronar was supplied in a Copal 1, it's a non-standard Copal 1 that requires a much larger hole - some have said 60mm, some have said Copal 3-size, which is 65mm.
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