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Travelwide 4x5
Old 04-02-2013   #1
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Travelwide 4x5

Not exactly a Rangefinder, but close enough! This is an affordable, compact and light point 'n shoot 4x5" camera.

Please support their Kickstarter so these cameras can be made!
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Old 04-02-2013   #2
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Interesting idea.
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Old 04-02-2013   #3
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Sheet film on the road is not pain. Probably one of the Speed Graphic press cameras or Bush Pressman is what you need.

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Old 04-02-2013   #4
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Compact?? Lightweight?? Not if you have to carry a bunch of 4x5 film holders, box of film, box for exposed film, and a changing bag!
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Old 04-02-2013   #5
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Compact?? Lightweight?? Not if you have to carry a bunch of 4x5 film holders, box of film, box for exposed film, and a changing bag!
Quite. the whole concept of 'lightweight, simple' 4x5 cameras has been done several times before. Never successfully, yet.

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Old 04-02-2013   #6
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Quite. the whole concept of 'lightweight, simple' 4x5 cameras has been done several times before. Never successfully, yet.

Cheers,

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I don't know, this and a few grafamatics? Would be very interesting.
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Old 04-02-2013   #7
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IMO large format optics need to be stopped-down, to get a decent depth-of-focus. And film speed that is not sufficient for the conditions at hand is also an issue.
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Old 04-02-2013   #8
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These look great! They look a lot more travel friendly than the speed graphic. I have walked about with a heavy bag too many times and this looks like it will more than half the load.
I would love to walk about with one of these, shooting 5x4 handheld is good fun too...
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Old 04-02-2013   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Quite. the whole concept of 'lightweight, simple' 4x5 cameras has been done several times before.
Not at anywhere near the price. If you already have a 90 that will fit, at $99 it's cheap enough to be a fun accessory for occasional entertainment. If you don't, it's not a bad value even as just a pinhole camera.

It's not a substitute for a view camera. It's a fun specialty item.
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Old 04-02-2013   #10
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I don't know, this and a few grafamatics? Would be very interesting.
Have you tried it? I have. Rigid-bodied 'lightweight' 4x5 cameras seldom save much weight and sacrifice a LOT of versatility.

Grafmatics can be overrated too. I have half a dozen.

For me, it's a question of being in love with idea versus being in love with the pictures. See http://www.rogerandfrances.com/sgall...sepia%202.html

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-02-2013   #11
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Now if the impossible project will make me some 4x5 films...
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Old 04-02-2013   #12
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Quote:
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Now if the impossible project will make me some 4x5 films...
They can't, the machines no longer exist.

I bought the 90 when it was still available for $69. Mad I waiting a few seconds because I could have gotten it for the $49 option.

Here's the nice thing about Kickstarter, whenever you see one that you might be interested in even a little. Buy in. You can always cancel later on. But you can't get that cheaper option down the road.
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Old 04-02-2013   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexposures View Post
They can't, the machines no longer exist.

I bought the 90 when it was still available for $69. Mad I waiting a few seconds because I could have gotten it for the $49 option.

Here's the nice thing about Kickstarter, whenever you see one that you might be interested in even a little. Buy in. You can always cancel later on. But you can't get that cheaper option down the road.
No way! they have 8x10. All they need to do is cut their 8x10 stock in quarters. No?

ps. I am not doing that on my own
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Old 04-02-2013   #14
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No way! they have 8x10. All they need to do is cut their 8x10 stock in quarters. No?

ps. I am not doing that on my own
No, the machines they use do just about everything at once. From packing the pods with chemicals, to assembly and final packaging.

They did do some 20x24 images but those were hand assembled and certainly not suitable for mass production.
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Old 04-02-2013   #15
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By the way, they can consider printing those cameras rather than moulding them.
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Old 04-02-2013   #16
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Hi guys,

I'm the creator of the Travelwide, along with my friend Justin. TRUST ME when I say this camera is lighter and easier in the field than a Graphic. I took a Super Graphic all over Bali a year and a half ago. In October I went to Brazil with the Travelwide, and there is no comparison. 5+ pounds versus less than one pound? It makes a huge difference. HUGE.

Honestly I'm a little surprised to see this camera pooh-poohed by users on this forum. I'm a longtime RFF fan, and I basically made this camera for you. It's lighter than a Zeiss Ikon, which is lighter than an M3. And it's 4x5!

To get a better sense of what's possible, take a look at the sample images on our Flickr:
http://flickr.com/photos/wanderlustcamera

These are not "demo" images. They're real snapshots I took while traveling or hanging out. Most of them are wide open (ƒ/6.8). The Angulon is not a clinical modern lens, so you won't see the detail at 4000 DPI that you would with a Zeiss. But then again, you don't need it. A slightly out-of-focus shot on 4x5 will beat the pants off the best Leica lenses and an M7.

Anyway, this camera is what it is: a tough, $99 hardbody scale focus camera that weighs basically nothing and lets you pack a 4x5 in addition to your normal camera setup. When I was designing it, the RFF community really was foremost in my mind. So I hope you guys like it and spread the word.

Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2013   #17
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It looks promising, reminds me of the globuscope 4x5. I like the integrated helical. It is a shame it doesn't shift though.
I wonder if your copy of the 90mm Angulon flares more than mine does, I haven't had that issue with it.
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Old 04-02-2013   #18
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Well, I've got $ in already. Picked up a 90 angulon a while back w/ no real use for it, so... at the price it's pretty hard to turn down.

Might have to put in for the 65 body too though. hmm...

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Old 04-02-2013   #19
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Quote:
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It looks promising, reminds me of the globuscope 4x5. I like the integrated helical. It is a shame it doesn't shift though.
I wonder if your copy of the 90mm Angulon flares more than mine does, I haven't had that issue with it.
Thank you! The Globuscope is cool.

The Angulon I used is from the 50s and thus probably a little more flare-prone. Also, our 3D printing material is essentially white translucent. The outside is dyed black, but it still lets tons of light through. We've taped up the cameras inside, but I think we need to tape them outside as well. I'm 99% sure the final production version won't flare nearly as bad.
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Old 04-02-2013   #20
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I like the concept. Just checked keh and they seem to be fresh out of 90 mm angulons. Does this design work with other 90s like the Sinaron or Graflex Optar?
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Old 04-02-2013   #21
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I like the concept. Just checked keh and they seem to be fresh out of 90 mm angulons. Does this design work with other 90s like the Sinaron or Graflex Optar?
Thanks! There are a lot of 90s out there, and most of them will work with the Travelwide. The Optar sometimes comes in a Copal 00 shutter, so you have to be careful to get the Copal 0 version or obtain a 00 -> 0 adapter. I haven't tested the Optar on the Travelwide, but I believe it should work.

I'm not familiar with the Sinaron, but it's certainly worth a try. The camera definitely works with the 90mm /8 variants, such as the Super Angulon 90mm /8.

With all non-Angulon /6.8 lenses you'll need to adjust the focus marker using the included instructions, but it's pretty easy.

But honestly, I think KEH and other outlets are out of the few Angulon 6.8's that they had because of our project. After a month or two, they should start coming out of the woodwork again.
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Old 04-02-2013   #22
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real talk this is pretty ****ing awesome.
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Old 04-02-2013   #23
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Originally Posted by patrickjames View Post
I wish you luck with this. I think the back should have been designed differently in order to take Grafmatics and roll film holders, but it looks like a deal for the price. Good luck finding a 90mm or 65mm in the next few months though!
When you need to use a large roll film holder or other oversized holder, you can simply unscrew the spring back temporarily and attach the holder with strong elastics.
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Old 04-03-2013   #24
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I like the idea and I just made a pledge for a Travelwide 90!
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Old 04-03-2013   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Hi guys,

I'm the creator of the Travelwide, along with my friend Justin. TRUST ME when I say this camera is lighter and easier in the field than a Graphic. I took a Super Graphic all over Bali a year and a half ago. In October I went to Brazil with the Travelwide, and there is no comparison. 5+ pounds versus less than one pound? It makes a huge difference. HUGE.

Honestly I'm a little surprised to see this camera pooh-poohed by users on this forum. I'm a longtime RFF fan, and I basically made this camera for you. It's lighter than a Zeiss Ikon, which is lighter than an M3. And it's 4x5!

To get a better sense of what's possible, take a look at the sample images on our Flickr:
http://flickr.com/photos/wanderlustcamera

These are not "demo" images. They're real snapshots I took while traveling or hanging out. Most of them are wide open (/6.8). The Angulon is not a clinical modern lens, so you won't see the detail at 4000 DPI that you would with a Zeiss. But then again, you don't need it. A slightly out-of-focus shot on 4x5 will beat the pants off the best Leica lenses and an M7.

Anyway, this camera is what it is: a tough, $99 hardbody scale focus camera that weighs basically nothing and lets you pack a 4x5 in addition to your normal camera setup. When I was designing it, the RFF community really was foremost in my mind. So I hope you guys like it and spread the word.

Thanks!
Really, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but the closest to what you're planning is probably the Gran View, and they lasted only a VERY few years. Then there was the PS from Fotoman: they closed up shop and were then revived a couple of years later.

In other words, in your position, I'd be EXTREMELY hesitant to sink much money in this, though I suppose that if others are putting the money up in advance there's not so much to lose.

And, I really do have a fair amount of experience with ultra-light 4x5 inch cameras including an ultra-light (1 kg) monorail, the Toho, and while I fully accept that your camera will be a good deal smaller and lighter than a Graphic -- most things are -- the film holders still take up a lot of space and weigh a lot; even Grafmatics, of which I have half a dozen.

As for "A slightly out-of-focus shot on 4x5 will beat the pants off the best Leica lenses and an M7", sorry, no. The look is so different that you're not making a sensible comparison. You may get beautiful tonality but a slightly out of focus picture is still a slightly out of focus picture, and it may actually look less sharp because there's no grain or anything else sharp in the picture.

Don't get me wrong. I wish you the very best of luck with this. But (1) no-one else has yet made a success of it -- which is not to say that you can't -- and (2) yes, I've travelled with a heavy 4x5 (MPP Mk. VII, which is like a very much better Graphic) and with light ones (Gran View, Toho). This include motorcycle travel. Film, holders, dark cloth and tripod are just as bulky and heavy with a light camera as with a heavy one, and I think you'll find that quite a lot of people who are initially enthusiastic will water down their enthusiasm when they look at the reality.

At best, I think you'll have a paying hobby here, and because it's you (known to RFF and others) there's obviously likely to be a higher degree of transparency and honesty in both directions (buyer and seller) than there would be if no-one had ever heard of you. Just don't get too carried away.

Once again, good luck -- but I think you may need it.

Cheers,

Roger
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Old 04-03-2013   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexposures View Post
No, the machines they use do just about everything at once. From packing the pods with chemicals, to assembly and final packaging.

They did do some 20x24 images but those were hand assembled and certainly not suitable for mass production.
Yes. And apparently (well, according to her current website), Mary Ellen Mark still takes commissions for sittings with one of the 20 x 24 Polaroids.
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Old 04-03-2013   #27
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Just don't get too carried away.
Thanks for all the business advice, Roger, but respectfully, we're not trying to turn this into a huge enterprise. Honestly if we were only interested in making money, we would not be making a 4x5 film camera in 2013.

We're doing this project because we designed the camera for ourselves, and now we want to share it. If the Kickstarter is successful, hundreds of people will get one. At $99, many of those people will probably be new to LF. I think that's cool.

PS, I just weighed a film holder, and it came to 178g. From experience, I know that six holders (12 shots) is about the most I'll use while walking around for the day. That makes it 1.5 kg for the camera plus six film holders.

As it happens, my Canon 5D Mark II with 24L also weighs 1.5 kg.

Or to make a RFF comparison, the M3 plus Nokton 35/1.2 is 1.0 kg. Put another lens or two in the bag, and you're at 1.5 kg. So we all know what 1.5 kg feels like. It's light.

Of course, I don't expect anyone to travel with only the Travelwide—the point is that it's so light that you can toss it in your bag without thinking. I can't tell you how many times I've stood over my backpack with a Super Graphic in one hand, trying to decide whether to pack 4x5.
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Old 04-03-2013   #28
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Fair enough. As a paying hobby, great. but I didn't know it was you and I'm wary of 'great ideas' on Kickstarter. This may be an ideal application of Kickstarter. I hope so. And, as I say, good luck.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-03-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Hi guys,

I'm the creator of the Travelwide, along with my friend Justin. TRUST ME when I say this camera is lighter and easier in the field than a Graphic. I took a Super Graphic all over Bali a year and a half ago. In October I went to Brazil with the Travelwide, and there is no comparison. 5+ pounds versus less than one pound? It makes a huge difference. HUGE.

Honestly I'm a little surprised to see this camera pooh-poohed by users on this forum. I'm a longtime RFF fan, and I basically made this camera for you. It's lighter than a Zeiss Ikon, which is lighter than an M3. And it's 4x5!

To get a better sense of what's possible, take a look at the sample images on our Flickr:
http://flickr.com/photos/wanderlustcamera

These are not "demo" images. They're real snapshots I took while traveling or hanging out. Most of them are wide open (/6.8). The Angulon is not a clinical modern lens, so you won't see the detail at 4000 DPI that you would with a Zeiss. But then again, you don't need it. A slightly out-of-focus shot on 4x5 will beat the pants off the best Leica lenses and an M7.

Anyway, this camera is what it is: a tough, $99 hardbody scale focus camera that weighs basically nothing and lets you pack a 4x5 in addition to your normal camera setup. When I was designing it, the RFF community really was foremost in my mind. So I hope you guys like it and spread the word.

Thanks!
Hi, Ben! I just sent you a question through Kickstarter, but I'll ask it here, too - if this is successful, do you see yourself doing it in 8x10? That's my goal - a simple, light no movements 8x10 for contact printing.
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Old 04-03-2013   #30
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For $99 or thereabouts I would buy one because I really love large format. I used to own a Razzle and it was a great camera but I sold it after a year. I shoot large format for the movements and the Polaroid conversions didn't have Any. Another reason for LF is the quality which I thought was negated by shooting handheld. I thought what is the point of a handheld LF other then worse camera shake on a larger piece of film when I can do that better with a Rollei or Mamiya 7 and without the shake.
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Old 04-03-2013   #31
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I agree with Roger here. I rarely take my 4x5 kit places. The size of the camera is not the reason why - the size of the entire kit is. Film holders are bulky and are a pain to carry around, LF lenses and filters take up a lot of space, and I always have to keep a changing bag and film boxes nearby. If I already have to lug all of this crap around, I might as well lug my Technika as well.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, it just doesn't appeal to me.
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Old 04-03-2013   #32
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I'm going to jump on one of these, I just need to decide which version I want...
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Old 04-03-2013   #33
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Hi, Ben! I just sent you a question through Kickstarter, but I'll ask it here, too - if this is successful, do you see yourself doing it in 8x10? That's my goal - a simple, light no movements 8x10 for contact printing.
(I told Ken on Kickstarter that I would love to do an 8x10... But I think a rigid body 8x10 would be too hard to pack in a bag. My partner Justin came up with a very cool, unconventional folding camera design for 4x5 and 8x10. If the Travelwide is successful, we'll look into it!)

BTW, for the folks who say 4x5 is still just too much to carry... Here's a still frame of me holding the camera, along with the bag it was in. The bag is also holding six film holders, an umbrella, and a Canon SLR. The way to make 4x5 portable is to forget about the flight cases and forty pound tripods.
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Old 04-03-2013   #34
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BTW, for the folks who say 4x5 is still just too much to carry... Here's a still frame of me holding the camera, along with the bag it was in. The bag is also holding six film holders, an umbrella, and a Canon SLR. The way to make 4x5 portable is to forget about the flight cases and forty pound tripods.
See, I hate carrying camera bags. If I must carry a bag, it's no extra trouble to carry a press/technical 4x5 too.
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Old 04-03-2013   #35
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Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
(I told Ken on Kickstarter that I would love to do an 8x10... But I think a rigid body 8x10 would be too hard to pack in a bag. My partner Justin came up with a very cool, unconventional folding camera design for 4x5 and 8x10. If the Travelwide is successful, we'll look into it!)

BTW, for the folks who say 4x5 is still just too much to carry... Here's a still frame of me holding the camera, along with the bag it was in. The bag is also holding six film holders, an umbrella, and a Canon SLR. The way to make 4x5 portable is to forget about the flight cases and forty pound tripods.
A folding 8x10 with some movement would be cool.

The only route I may get into large format is via The Impossible Film. With a 8x10 camera, I can get some instant shots at a dinner and start getting everyone's autograph.
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Old 04-03-2013   #36
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A folding 8x10 would be great! I think I'm going to sign on with the 90mm version of the 4x5 and look at picking up a flatbed scanner... for now.
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Old 04-03-2013   #37
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I'd give it a try if I had a darkroom so I could develop 4x5 at home easily.
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Old 04-03-2013   #38
Murchu
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Looks like an Ilford Titan, with a lens instead of the pinhole..
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Old 04-03-2013   #39
bensyverson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.elliott View Post
I'd give it a try if I had a darkroom so I could develop 4x5 at home easily.
You don't need a darkroom to process 4x5! Check out The "Taco" Method.
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Old 04-03-2013   #40
scottyb70
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I have the Globuscope 4x5 with the JML 65 f8, I replaced my shen hao with it. I like mine because it is definitely faster to set up than any 4x5 view camera. The nice thing about mine it is made from stainless steel. I think 99.00 is really cheap, the last time a globuscope 4x5 sold on ebay for 975.00. I still think that is cheap due to the scarcity of the camera.
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