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XPAN2 Long Exposure Qs?
Old 01-12-2017   #1
TimPrebble
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XPAN2 Long Exposure Qs?

Planning to go shoot some long exposure test rolls this weekend and wondered if anyone
could offer advice from experience shooting long exposures with an XPAN2, for reciprocity?

I've shot lots of long exposures with my digital cameras (5D3 and a6300) using Lee Big Stopper 10 ND filter,
and I've just bought a Super Stopper 15 stop ND for both full frame 100mm and the Seven5 size for my XPAN....

So using a SuperStopper 15 stop their guide says a shot that meters 1/500th becomes 1 minute...
but then reading the reciprocity of TriX it says the compensation for a 1 minute is 9 minutes (!)
which is pushing the maximum bulb exposure I can do with an XPAN2

http://www.camramirez.com/pdf/P1_LongExposureAdj.pdf

I'd appreciate any sage advice - use TMax (with better reciprocity) instead?


I suspect the best thing I can do is to lock off a shot, and shoot half a dozen shots,
with fixed F stop & varying the exposure time all the way to maximum...
and see what works



Also intrigued by this comment:

"if you plan on doing a lot of night exposures, it can be worth your while to check out
Fuji Acros 100. There is no reciprocity effect until 120 seconds of exposure!
This means that Acros, though nominally slower, can be effectively "faster" at nightime
than some 400 speed films. Image quality is top notch."

is Acros still available?
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Old 01-12-2017   #2
sevo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPrebble View Post
So using a SuperStopper 15 stop their guide says a shot that meters 1/500th becomes 1 minute...
That is not reciprocity, it is just that 1/500 and 60s are 15 stops/steps apart. Filter manufacturers never gave figures for reciprocity, as these are film dependent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPrebble View Post
but then reading the reciprocity of TriX it says the compensation for a 1 minute is 9 minutes (!)
Around that (which is actually not bad, most other films of similar type and vintage require about twice that).


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPrebble View Post
I'd appreciate any sage advice - use TMax (with better reciprocity) instead?
(...)
Fuji Acros 100. There is no reciprocity effect until 120 seconds of exposure!
(...)
is Acros still available?
Acros is still around, the best film for long time exposures. T-Max 100 would be second best, with less than half a stop compensation to one minute. In colour, Provia 100F displays a reciprocity behaviour almost as good as Acros.
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Old 01-13-2017   #3
TimPrebble
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as I said I've shot lots of long exposures digitally before
& understand the effect of the ND filter on exposure time.
sorry if that wasnt clear - its only film reciprocity
that I am asking about peoples experience with

thanks - I will try T-Max 100
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Old 01-13-2017   #4
brbo
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There is no need for ND15 on XPan as you can easily pick a film with greater reciprocity failure so that you will still be limited by the longest bulb time on Xpan with "lighter" ND filter that will be both cheaper and better. Make the reciprocity failure work for you, not against you!

(Unless there is a particular scenario where you need to shoot close to wide open in the middle of the day and still have very long shutter speed)
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Old 01-13-2017   #5
TimPrebble
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Sure, thanks - I also have a 10 stop and a 3 stop filter so will of course use whatever best suits the situation...
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Old 01-13-2017   #6
giganova
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Just do a few test shots and find out.

Q: how will you avoid light leaks with a rectangular filter? Everything behind the filter needs to be sealed, which isn't as trivial as it sounds.
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Old 01-13-2017   #7
brbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giganova View Post
Q: how will you avoid light leaks with a rectangular filter? Everything behind the filter needs to be sealed, which isn't as trivial as it sounds.
Proper holder and filter. He's got Lee, so should be fine. I've used similar setup (regular (100mm) Lee holder with Haida 10ND filter) and there are no light leaks. Xpan seems to be light tight at the bayonet mount, too...
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Old 01-14-2017   #8
TimPrebble
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exactly, the Lee Seven 5 system was apparently designed by someone working at Lee Filters who owns an xPan
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Old 01-17-2017   #9
TimPrebble
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test rolls off to the lab yesterday, will post some results when I have them...
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Old 01-17-2017   #10
Jake Mongey
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Shoot fuji acros 100 if youre worried about reciprocity as there is no compensation for times up to 120 seconds and only half a stop compensation for anything over that
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Old 01-17-2017   #11
TimPrebble
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thanks Jake - one of the test rolls I shot was Acros
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Old 02-02-2017   #12
TimPrebble
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Tmax100

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Old 02-02-2017   #13
Huss
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Excellent result, but the horizon looks tilted to the left. Easy fix.
What was your exposure time?
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Old 02-02-2017   #14
TimPrebble
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Thanks - yes I need to get my bubble on
I think that one was 60 seconds, with ND10 Big Stopper...
lab scanned out of order, so a bit of detective work relating to my notes
(have discussed it with them & they have system in place now)

Each of the test shots I manually bracketed, so shot as metered compensating for ND
and then took a couple more extending the exposure time...

Pretty happy with the results and using Acros 100 or Tmax100 feel confident I can predict exposure...
but will still probably take a few exposures each time, as conditions change etc...

One problem i struck was the cable release misfired every second or third shot on my TX2...
I was using a physical cable release and have read of others having the same issue
but have since managed to track down a Hasselblad electronic cable release so that should hopefully avoid a bit of wasted film...

Heres two shot with Fuji Acros100




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Old 02-02-2017   #15
Huss
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Very nice work.
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Old 02-02-2017   #16
TimPrebble
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even some of the underexposed shots are interesting... not what i intended, but still...





underexposed TMax 100
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Old 02-04-2017   #17
TimPrebble
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And another

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Old 02-04-2017   #18
Huss
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Great stuff. Did u use the center nd filter? it doesn't look like u did.
The underepxosed ones have a moody feeling. I' d own it!
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Old 02-04-2017   #19
TimPrebble
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I do have a centre filter on my 30mm lens... which all of those were shot with... not sure why i get some vingetting
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Old 02-04-2017   #20
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Is the center filter different between the 30 and 45mm lenses?
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Old 02-04-2017   #21
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They are not the same. They don't even share the filter size (49 vs. 58mm).

Vignetting is probably because of the ND filter. Does Lee really recommend Seven5 for 30mm on Xpan?

It could also be that you will get some vignetting even with bigger ND filter system. Oblique rays have longer path through the filter than straight ones. If the filter is relatively thick (the light changing properties of the filter are not contained only in the thin coating of the filter) this longer path will probably make a difference on very wide lenses.
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Old 02-05-2017   #22
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What is the reason for the long exposures? Is it to get the smooth, misty appearance of the water, and/or the clouds, in the shots you posted? Great work, by the way!
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Old 02-05-2017   #23
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Yes exactly, depending on conditions if exposure time is expanded past 3 minutes the sea becomes like milk.... and any movement in clouds smears....
For some great examples check the works of some of these:

Joel Tjintjelaar
https://500px.com/joeltjintjelaar

also great tutorial/explanations (for digital) by Joel
http://www.bwvision.com/complete-gui...-2016-edition/

Micheal Levin
https://www.michaellevin.ca/new-work

Michael Kenna
http://www.michaelkenna.net
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Old 02-05-2017   #24
TimPrebble
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@brbo it isnt that Lee filters reccomends anything specifically about the 30mm lens... but if you want to use a big stopper or grads, the Seven5 system from Leee fits the lenses for the XPAN, as well as digital micro four thirds cameras....

http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/.../system-seven5

I also have a set of the larger 100mm Lee filters and get a small amount of vignetting when using the ND10 Big stopper with wide Zeiss 18mm and 21mm lenses on my 5D3... so I guess it goes with the territory....
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Old 02-05-2017   #25
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from Lee Filters site:

How wide will the LEE Filter System go without vignetting?

There is no hard and fast answer to this, lens specs and designs change all the time, as do the filter holder requirements. However, as a rough guide, using a simple holder setup with 2 filter slots, and no lens shade a DSLR (small chip) will go down to 10mm. A 35mm & Full chip DSLR will go down to 16mm. A medium format 645 & 66 will go down to 35mm. A medium format 67 will go down to 45mm. A larger format 54 camera will go down to 70 – 90mm.
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