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Summicron-C 40mm and 11251 retainer ring -- which 39mm UV filters work?
Old 11-30-2015   #1
Raphael
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Smile Summicron-C 40mm and 11251 retainer ring -- which 39mm UV filters work?

Good afternoon!

I am trying to equip my Summicron-C 40mm with a UV filter.
I do have a 11251 E39/S5.5 retainer ring -- which was not designed for this lens but for the 90mm version together with the 11250 hood... -- .

However, I have heard of people using this specific ring to hold 39mm filter glass (without the threaded mount) in place between the lens and the adapter.

Do you have any personal experience which 39mm filters have suiting glass diameter to fit between the lens and this adapter?
I do have a B+W 39mm filter; does anyone of you use this specific filter for this purpose?

I am aware of the existence of Heliopan filters with the correct thread (prone to flare due to the coating though, I tried that one), and the existence of chinese ebay 39mm/0.75-pitch to 39mm/0.5mm adapters.


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Old 11-30-2015   #2
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I bought a 39mm filter adapter for series 5.5 for my Summicron 40 and it sucks.
Why? Because while it does adapt perfectly, it touches the aperture ring and binds up against it. I now use it w/o the filter adapter, and just very lightly screw on a regular 39mm filter or hood.

The offending object:
http://www.dagcamera.com/store/p146/...40mm_Lens.html
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Old 11-30-2015   #3
13Promet
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Three years ago I've got a cheap (3-5$ IIRC), chinese version of the same adapter and it works perfectly.
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Old 11-30-2015   #4
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would it be possible for you to upload a picture of the working adapter? just to avoid me buying one that also locks up the focusing ring.
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Old 11-30-2015   #5
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I've bought several 5.5 to 39mm adaptors from an eBay vendor that goes by the name sm-camera.

I'm using these on the 50mm/f2 Summicron and the 90mm/f4 Elmar.

All have worked perfectly.
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Old 11-30-2015   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13Promet View Post
Three years ago I've got a cheap (3-5$ IIRC), chinese version of the same adapter and it works perfectly.
On the Summicron 40mm lens?
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Old 11-30-2015   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greybeard View Post
I've bought several 5.5 to 39mm adaptors from an eBay vendor that goes by the name sm-camera.

I'm using these on the 50mm/f2 Summicron and the 90mm/f4 Elmar.

All have worked perfectly.
But they are not the Summicron 40mm lens that Raphael is talking about.

Here is mine with the adapter, and how it binds the aperture ring:



The problem is the SummicronC 40 has the aperture ring at the absolute front of the lens, with no lip or anything else ahead of it.

p.s the one that SM-Camera sells on ebay is exactly like mine...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adapter-Ring...YAAOSwl8NVawnd
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Old 11-30-2015   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebarchie View Post
Please avoid spreading FUD..

My cron has a lip, and I'm pretty sure all do, yours may be due for a CLA.
Why don't you post a pic of what yours looks like? That would be helpful.
Here's mine:





It looks like every other 40mm SummicronC I've seen. Is yours different?
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Old 11-30-2015   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebarchie View Post
certainly.

Is this a clear enough indication of a lip?
Thanks for that! Very interesting. If you look at the white dot for the aperture setting, mine is much closer to the aperture ring than yours. Seeing mine works perfectly on all my Ms, including the M240, there must have been different versions of this lens made.

If you look at this youtube video, you can see that his is like mine, lipless (!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvFtBxWY3mA

And another image of one like mine:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AhOy3KtYdrc/hqdefault.jpg

So, to the OP, it depends on whether your SummicronC 40 has a lip or not.
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Old 11-30-2015   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebarchie View Post
Yours is an earlier production, mine is the latest '75 run. The position of my dot/markings is a little awkward see here
http://www.jumboprawn.net/jesse/cams...cron-40mm.html
Better being an early production run than needing a CLA!
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Old 12-01-2015   #11
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I bought the Series5.5-39mm adapter too. Ground it down and attached a Summicron35 square hood to it.
Untitled by Kay K, on Flickr

I actually didn't liked that combo so much (it was making this beautiful small lens too big and also made it difficult to move the aperture ring with my thick fingers). I just screw the 39mm filter directly into the thread. If you don't force it too much you won't damage anything and it sits tight enough.
That said I got a rubber hood with a series 5.5 UV filter with the last cron-c I bought and use that in the moment
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Old 12-01-2015   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
But they are not the Summicron 40mm lens that Raphael is talking about.

Here is mine with the adapter, and how it binds the aperture ring:



The problem is the SummicronC 40 has the aperture ring at the absolute front of the lens, with no lip or anything else ahead of it.

p.s the one that SM-Camera sells on ebay is exactly like mine...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adapter-Ring...YAAOSwl8NVawnd

Typing error on my parts. Sorry.

I am using the adaptors on two different Summicron C 40mm/f2 lenses and there is no interference with the aperture ring on the lenses that I have.
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Old 12-07-2015   #13
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I just used a regular 39mm filter screws in a couple of turns fine, never liked the adapter added too much bulk.
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Old 02-23-2016   #14
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I'm currently using one of the 5.5-39 adapter from Heavystar without trouble on my Summicron-C (2598xxx, it has the "lip")
They are reasonably priced and work.

Since I don't have a Leica 12518 5.5 rubber hood and I use a filter (B+W 007 MRC) I have found a hood solution for it. A foldable, threadless, rubber hood made for the c-mount CCTV Fujian 35/1.7 lens, available on the bay if you search a bit.
This threadless rubber hood will slip away if mounted just around the 39mm filter but will hold in place if mounted around the 5.5-39 adapter, so it works.
So, my setup is: Summicron-C + 5.5-39 + 39mm filter + 41mm cap, and hood mounted around adapter.
The cap will reach the 39mm filter with the hood mounted.
A 40.5mm cap would be better with B+W filters, but I coudn't find any... so I put a bit of camera tape on the inside of the push-on 41mm cap. Other filters have a larger external diameter.
I described it here: https://www.flickr.com/groups/summic...7622716299533/ incl. other options I use.

Alt. I also use a plain 39mm filter partially screwed-in (with care)

I read around that it is preferable to have the filter as close to the front element as possible, but I'm not sure it's really important (in fact I'd prefer to avoid putting a piece of glass in front of a good lens...)
In case it's better, the best would be to partially screw a 39mm filter, or find a 5.5 clear filter and a 12518 rubber hood,
or a 11251 ring and the glass of a (37mm?) threaded filter (since 5.5 glass will not fit inside 11251) Note 11251 has no female threads on the top.

Some users lathe the outside of a 11251 ring to fit a 12526 hood. Or trim and sand the rubber of a deteriorated 12518 hood to do the same. But 12526 hoods are very expensive. I see here https://flic.kr/p/dQ56CC that 12524 hood could also be used in this fashion.
The 12526 can also be used on the 28/2.8 ASPH Elmarit, so I guess one could find something more efficient for the 40/2.

I think the most elegant and safe solution if using a filter is Heavystar 5.5-39 adapter + 39mm filter + screw-in 39mm hood and cap.
Series 5.5 filters are old, most used, and very possibly non multicoated.
If you have/find a good condition 12518 hood and cap, that would be the most compact and simple.
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Old 02-24-2016   #15
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Watch out with those Heavystar adapters. They are aluminium and that can bind, making them impossible to remove! I know - I had to send one to Will van Manen to remove by force.
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Old 02-24-2016   #16
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I read that the glass from a 39mm B+W or Tiffen filter will fit inside the Summicron-C hood with no rattle.
But it seems that the usual series 5.5 threadless filter is around 35.9mm diameter.

Any of you tried the glass from a 39mm filter in place of a series 5.5 filter between hood and lens?

Can anyone check the diameter of a series 5.5 filter that fits inside the Summ-C hood please?

What's the safest way to remove the glass out of the frame on a 39mm filter?
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Old 02-24-2016   #17
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Why go to all that effort when a 39mm filter will screw in a couple of turns and if you really want a hood then a generic 39mm one will work.
If you go for a b&w or heliopan filter these are made from brass and won't get stuck or damage the thread so easily.
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Old 02-24-2016   #18
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that's what I do now. Either use a 39mm filter partially in or the Heavystar 5.5-39 adapter.


But today I found a 12518 hood and 14191 cap in good condition and would like to use at least a clear or UV filter inside.

So, I'd like to know, and it will also help others wanting to use the original hood. After all it's the simplest and smallest option (if you don't plan to use filters)
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Old 02-24-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fer_fdi View Post
I read that the glass from a 39mm B+W or Tiffen filter will fit inside the Summicron-C hood with no rattle.
But it seems that the usual series 5.5 threadless filter is around 35.9mm diameter.

Any of you tried the glass from a 39mm filter in place of a series 5.5 filter between hood and lens?

Can anyone check the diameter of a series 5.5 filter that fits inside the Summ-C hood please?

What's the safest way to remove the glass out of the frame on a 39mm filter?
Yes-it is a viable option and for some filters like an IR/UV filter the only option. But it does rattle a bit. Remove the glass by unscrewing the retaining ring. Normally that is easily done.
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Old 02-24-2016   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
Why go to all that effort when a 39mm filter will screw in a couple of turns and if you really want a hood then a generic 39mm one will work.
If you go for a b&w or heliopan filter these are made from brass and won't get stuck or damage the thread so easily.
Because partially screwing an E-thread filter or hood in will damage the threads inside the lens over time and if you overtighten by mistake you will have a very hard job unscrewing it again.
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Old 02-24-2016   #21
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Thanks Jaap

Finally it would be great to know what's the diameter of an actual series 5.5 filter; one that's it's checked to fit inside the hood.

Theor. series 5.5 filter glass is 35.9mm diameter x 4mm thick, but it would be useful to know actual size from a user having a filter inside a 12518 hood.
I read they don't fit below the 11251 retaining ring for instance, that's why I'm asking for a size double-check
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Old 01-04-2017   #22
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i just did screw an B+W 39mm Filter into it.
now there are two helicoils in one.
The old hood still works fine after removing
the B+W filter.
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Old 01-05-2017   #23
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I finally got a Series 5.5 Tiffen filter. I'll measure it and report back in case it can help someone.

It fits inside the Leitz hood. By ear, it seems to move slightly. But I think all will move slightly.
Tiffen ones are said to be the best option. So I'm done with this.


Before I used a regular 39mm filter carefully screwed and different options of low profile hoods.
I also used a regular 39mm filter over a 39mm to series 5.5 adapter.
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Old 01-05-2017   #24
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Regular 39 mm with .5 mm pitch. Reverse and place inside shade
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Old 01-15-2017   #25
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Hi,

I have just purchased a 40mm summicron...awaiting it's arrival

I understand the issues with using filters and hoods on this lens. I was wondering if this option would work: a series 5.5 to 39mm filter adapter and then the hood for the 50mm f2.8 elmar (black, code 12 550 – silver, code 12 549)? I believe this would screw into the 39mm filter thread?
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Old 01-15-2017   #26
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I don't have a 12550 to test that, but a 5.5 to 39mm adapter plus a small threaded 39mm hood is nice, light and compact. Same guy that sells the adapter has the right one, it uses a 48mm cap.

BTOH the right Leica hood for this lens can be found for not so much if you search around and be patient.
There is one (the right foldable hood and cap) on the bay that has not been sold yet because they are listing it by the reference number of the cap. I told them, but they keep listing it by that number, so it's difficult to find. It is a Spain-based seller and the price is decent (around $60 IIRC. I mean not cheap but cheaper than the rest and it's new).
I found mine cheaper though ($35!), after searching for some months outside the bay.

So, for me, it was good to use the 5.5 adapter plus the small hood while waiting for a right-priced foldable hood.
You may find that you don't need the Leica foldable hood after using the adapter solution.
I would have been happy with just the adapter solution. I didn't find right to spend too much for the foldable hood.
This lens is so good that you forget about the hood type once you start shooting with it.
It is also fantastic on a digital camera. On my Fuji X-E1 performs amazingly well; sharp, 3D, very special.
Love it
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Old 01-15-2017   #27
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Thanks Fer
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Old 01-26-2017   #28
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I came across a Series VIII 14165 Retaining Ring and was wondering if this screws into a 39mm thread?
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Old 01-27-2017   #29
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no, I don't think so
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Old 01-27-2017   #30
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I would see if a 39 mm will screw on far enough, then use 2 drops of blue loctite on the threads, to hold it.

Do not use red which is permanent.

Maybe do the same with the filter adapter.
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