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Canon Rangefinders - Peter Dechert and Peter Kitchingman Peter Dechert is best known for his Canon Rangefinder, Canon SLR, and Olympus Pen books, the latter two long out-of-print. He was a monthly columnist for many years for SHUTTERBUG magazine, and has contributed to many others. Most recently he has written about the pre-WW2 Zeiss 35mm cameras, but his interests in camera equipment and optics are many and varied. As a pro protographer and honorary life member of ASMP, Peter is also expert in using the gear! Peter Kitchingman - author of Canon Rangefinder Lens book Peter Kitchingman's 'Canon M39 Rangefinder Lenses 1939-71' book is the definitive source on these very interesting optics. His interests also go to the entire Canon Rangefinder system and beyond.

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Canon f1.8 Summicron !!!! What is this ?
Old 05-13-2016   #1
PAN F
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Canon f1.8 Summicron !!!! What is this ?

I have never heard of this lens oddity before.

http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_en/...ku27286-5.html
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Old 05-13-2016   #2
Steve M.
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I like the crooked white hand "engraving" on the front. Put this one w/ the fake Russian Leica lenses.

It's especially nice, as this is a 85mm lens labeled as a 50! Whoops. Apparently the Leica shop sells only the best stuff.
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Old 05-13-2016   #3
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Ancient imitations are growing collectible - these are more rare than the originals...
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Old 05-13-2016   #4
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Those Russian fakery engravers must be running out of FSU photo gear to mark up.
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Old 05-13-2016   #5
sevo
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That is no Russian fake engraving - the dealers (who are among the top vintage camera experts) consider it a "genuine" fake from back when Japanese lenses still were a base for fakes.
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Old 05-13-2016   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
That is no Russian fake engraving - the dealers (who are among the top vintage camera experts) consider it a "genuine" fake from back when Japanese lenses still were a base for fakes.
I doubt that a well known and long established quality brand like Canon would have been the target of label fakery, even in the 1950s or 1960s.
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Old 05-13-2016   #7
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Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
I doubt that a well known and long established quality brand like Canon would have been the target of label fakery, even in the 1950s or 1960s.
A then barely established brand (no Japanese brands had ever exported anything elsewhere than to Japanese colonies in imperial times, and even for a couple of years after the war the only path for cameras out of Japan was in the luggage of returning GIs), from what back then was a mysterious country at the edge of civilization? The reputation of Japan as a source of technology in the 1950s was barely up to that of China in the early 1990s - i.e. they were lucky if they were considered a exporter of pirated products and cheap plastic toys.
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Old 05-13-2016   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
A then barely established brand (no Japanese brands had ever exported anything elsewhere than to Japanese colonies in imperial times, and even for a couple of years after the war the only path for cameras out of Japan was in the luggage of returning GIs), from what back then was a mysterious country at the edge of civilization? The reputation of Japan as a source of technology in the 1950s was barely up to that of China in the early 1990s - i.e. they were lucky if they were considered a exporter of pirated products and cheap plastic toys.
Yeah, that is why for example North Americans paid around 415 dollars for a Nikon SP with the f1.4 5cm lens in 1958, equivalent to around 3,400 USD today.
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Old 05-13-2016   #9
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There's a huge step in history between 1948 and 1958. A gigantic step for Imperial Japan.
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Old 05-13-2016   #10
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Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
Yeah, that is why for example North Americans paid around 415 dollars for a Nikon SP with the f1.4 5cm lens in 1958, equivalent to around 3,400 USD today.
By 1958 the Japanese began to gain market, with cheap cameras that topped their German (and even more so US or British) competitors. But the brand credibility still was low - Nikon less so than the others, but in general, the reputation of Japanese cameras still was a lot less than that of Leitz or Zeiss made ones, and they were much cheaper than the matching West German counterparts. There were not many fakes made from Japanese Leica copies, but what fakes there were were usually Japanese rather than USSR clone based until the late 1960s (USSR cameras being quite inaccessible in the West until the detÚnte policy relaxed the cold war blockade).
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Old 05-13-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
A then barely established brand (no Japanese brands had ever exported anything elsewhere than to Japanese colonies in imperial times, and even for a couple of years after the war the only path for cameras out of Japan was in the luggage of returning GIs), from what back then was a mysterious country at the edge of civilization? The reputation of Japan as a source of technology in the 1950s was barely up to that of China in the early 1990s - i.e. they were lucky if they were considered a exporter of pirated products and cheap plastic toys.
Actually the plastic toys came later, 1960s to 1970s. When I was a child in the 50s the Japanese export toys were primarily stamped tin (think tiny metal cars or planes with friction 'motors'. When taken apart you could see the labeling from the can's original produce on the inside of the toy.
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Old 05-13-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
By 1958 the Japanese began to gain market, with cheap cameras that topped their German (and even more so US or British) competitors. But the brand credibility still was low - Nikon less so than the others, but in general, the reputation of Japanese cameras still was a bit less than that of East (socialist) German cameras, and Japanese Leica copies were a more common base for fakes than USSR ones (the latter being quite inaccessible during that first cold war peak).
I suspect there was a perceived difference between North America and Europe regarding Japanese photo gear in the 1950s. In North America by near the mid 1950s, because of advertising and heavy promotion, availability and actual innovation and real quality, Japanese photo gear was already well established and enjoyed a good reputation amongst photographers in the 35mm format and even a bit in their 6x6 TLRS.

Where as in Europe this was not the case, they were seen as cheap copycats with inferior products well into the 1960s. In most western European nations, Japanese photo gear was simply not available to buy in that time era, as the long established ( mostly German) European brands were seen as the "top of the pop" and considered quality photo gear that was desirable.

The truth is that the spectacular Nikon SP should have been something that Zeiss should have built as a continuation of their Contax RF line and soon later made a great SLR that would have buried the Nikon F, but unfortunately for the Western Europeans, it was never to be.
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Old 05-22-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
It's especially nice, as this is a 85mm lens labeled as a 50! Whoops. Apparently the Leica shop sells only the best stuff.
No, it's not an 85.
It's a 50mm/1.8 Serenar, exactly as the seller states.

Obviously an intent to fake a Leitz lens with a crude label but, as you may know, this lens is actually a close competitor to the Summicron.
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Old 09-18-2016   #14
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CANON had worldwide patents for the 50/1.8 lens. It was patent protected even in Germany. Some other lenses (i.e. the 35/1.8) as well.
So why should THEY copy anything in 1951?
Yes, they did initially after the war. It was allowed then (Free German patents -1945 due to allied rules)
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Old 09-18-2016   #15
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If I were Leicashop, I'd market it as 'the first rigid Cron ever (before Leitz production)' and ask EUR 1,600 for it! Why ask less if you can ask more!?

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Old 09-19-2016   #16
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Maybe someone just did it for fun? Or maybe it was some elderly, infirm camera mechanic without too many scruples, who needed some money and thought there might be someone he could con? Or someone at the Canon factory who "won" a lens (perhaps even one that had been rejected on quality grounds) and decided to disguise it, using a couple of spare bits?

And as Sevo says, "Ancient imitations are growing collectible - these are more rare than the originals..."

Cheers,

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Old 09-19-2016   #17
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Or: unwanted pasts will be future collectibles (dealers promise)
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Old 09-30-2016   #18
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Canon NEVER produced a lens like this and WHY would they as ALL there lenses at that time fitted the Leica M39 mount. There is no mention in official Canon documentation about such a series of lenses.
The Canon 1953-56 28mm f:3.5 they did make to fit Contax cameras and the lens was marked with a red "CT" on the info ring. Things must be getting desperate in those old Eastern Block countries to come up with this concoction.
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Old 09-30-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanonRFinder View Post
Canon NEVER produced a lens like this and WHY would they as ALL there lenses at that time fitted the Leica M39 mount. There is no mention in official Canon documentation about such a series of lenses.
Will you please elaborate this ?
Canon did produce a 50mm f1.8 w/M39 mount as well as many others to fit their own range of rangefinder cameras. Of course, none of them was labeled Summicron...
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Old 10-07-2016   #20
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Quote:
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Will you please elaborate this ?
Canon did produce a 50mm f1.8 w/M39 mount as well as many others to fit their own range of rangefinder cameras. Of course, none of them was labeled Summicron...
Sorry should have said that Canon NEVER produced a lens marked as so but did produce the 50mm f/1.8 and many other M39 lenses marked with either Seiki Kogaku/Serenar/Canon Lens.
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Old 10-07-2016   #21
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link is broken now.
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Old 01-03-2017   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
link is broken now.
Link works for me. And it's funny that they're asking for 750 euros for that, when it's pretty obvious it's an aftermarket paint job on the front. Sure Canon's LTM lens would fit leica screw mount bodies, but I don't think they would ever try to claim to be a different brand.

IF the engraving was dated to be from the 60s or so, then it was more likely done by a counterfeiter trying to resell the 'affordable' canon lens at a Leitz price.

But as far as LeicaShop goes... it's not worth any more than what a Canon 50/1.8 Serenar would be in fair user grade shape.
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