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Summaron 35/3.5 ltm: M coupling (please help)
Old 02-12-2016   #1
fer_fdi
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Summaron 35/3.5 ltm: M coupling (please help)

Hi all,

I have a wonderful Summaron 35/3.5 ltm from 1954, A36, ungoogled, nice and clean,
that produces wonderful images on both my X-E1 digital and my brother's Leica II.
It focus with great accuracy on the Leica II; I was amazed by the results when I saw the scanned film.

Now on my Minolta CLE, when focusing the lens, it seems to loose rangefinder coupling near the 4 feet mark.
From aprox. 4.25ft to it's mfd (3.5ft) , moving the focus on the lens will not actuate the camera's rangefinder.
CLE's rangefinder couples down to 75-80cm nominally, and the Summaron down to 106cm (3.5ft),
so I'm surprised coupling stops at 130cm (4.25ft) in this case.

This Summaron couples all the way to it's min. focus distance (3.5ft) on the Leica II.
All my other ltm lenses are coupling all along their whole focusing range on the CLE (Elmar 50, Summitar, Canon 50/1.4, Jupiter-8, Jupiter-12, Industar-22)
but this one seems to disengage from the rangefinder arm at just before reaching the 4 feet mark on the lens (at approx. 4.25 ft)
All lenses tested using the same ltm-M adapter, just in case.

Is this normal?

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Old 02-12-2016   #2
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It looks like the LTM Summaron has a cutout for the rangefinder coupling barrel. Maybe the RF cam is hitting the sides of this and that is preventing it from moving further?

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Old 02-12-2016   #3
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You could put the camera in B with the back off, that will let you watch what is going on inside as you focus.
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Old 02-12-2016   #4
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Thank you Steve.
The CLE is loaded with film right now, that's why I didn't inspect it yet from inside, but I will asap.

I wondered if it was a known behavior when used with an ltm-M adapter...
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Old 02-12-2016   #5
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I have had one for 10+ years with a cheap LTM-M adapter; I have never had this issue. I've used it with the adapter on an M5 and a CL, and without the adapter on a IIIc.

The lens it had been serviced by Focal Point before I bought it, so I'm not surprised that there weren't any functional issues.
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Old 02-12-2016   #6
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The lens focus perfectly on a Leica II and along all it's focusing range...
And it's otherwise in mint condition, smooth mechanics, etc. ...
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Old 02-14-2016   #7
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-Here someone could only focus down to 5 meter using the same chinese adapter that I'm using
(I know, I know... but I can't buy 6 x $70 adapters, or even one right now)
he says that this specific adapter blocked the camera's cam...
(text right before the b&w Buddha picture, last three lines of the paragraph)
https://www.behance.net/gallery/1977...new-Leica-M240


-Another case of Summaron + cheap chinese adapter:
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=153075


So it may be related to the chinese adapter combined with this lens...

Anyone with a good adapter at a fair price willing to sell?
Looking for one for 50mm frameline, so CLE will show 40mm frameline.

Would a Fotodiox adapter suffice? Not a Leica or Voigtlander but I could afford it...

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Old 02-16-2016   #8
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any feedback about Fotodiox ltm to M adapters on a 35m lens?

At least they are made of brass and stainless steel...
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Old 02-17-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fer_fdi View Post
any feedback about Fotodiox ltm to M adapters on a 35m lens?

At least they are made of brass and stainless steel...
Just tried one with a 35 Elmar. No luck, the focus cam disengaged at 5 feet. Versus a Leica branded adapter worked like a charm. Much easier to remove too, the Fotodiox has sharp edges, cuts flesh if you're not careful!
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Old 02-17-2016   #10
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thank you very much for your help
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Old 02-17-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steverett View Post
It looks like the LTM Summaron has a cutout for the rangefinder coupling barrel. Maybe the RF cam is hitting the sides of this and that is preventing it from moving further?
I finished the current roll, mounted my Summaron+adapter and inspected while in B.
With the chinese cheap adapter, the Summaron can't screw in completely (by a hair) and then the cutout in the back of the lens does not align well with the RF cam, so when focusing closer (around 4,25ft in my case) the RF cam hits the lens back rim and stays there, disengaging (I hope it makes sense in my spanglish )

Mistery solved (apparently/so far : )
Many thanks to all for your support!
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Old 02-17-2016   #12
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I have a Fotodiox adapter and a CL, I can check mine when I get home with my Canon 35.
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Old 02-17-2016   #13
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great, thank you!

I think the problem is with lenses with the cutout though
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Old 02-17-2016   #14
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Could be. I just tested it with my Canon 35 which has a min focus distance of 1m; but the rangefinder stops moving at ~1.1m (3.5 feet). My CV 40mm does the same thing, so I guess 3.5 feet is the closest the CL will focus anyway.
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Old 02-18-2016   #15
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strange, I read the rangefinder on the CL couples down to 80cm...
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Old 02-21-2016   #16
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I just saw the last roll developed. CLE with Jupiter-12 on cheap chinese LTM adapter.
At first sight at least, no problem, good focus, incl. min. focusing distance.

So, the issue seems to be related only to certain lenses. Lenses that have a thicker rim at the back of the lens and need to have a cutout on the rim for the rangefinder arm to couple, like the Summaron 35/3.5 ltm (see above image sent by steverett), because the lens do not screw completely in the adapter ring and then the cutout is not centered and the camera's rangefinder cam can't follow the lens down to minimum focusing distance...
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Old 03-27-2016   #17
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~ update ~

Got a "5cm M-3 ADAPTER JAPAN" adapter (see image) and now the Summaron 35/3.5 is coupled all the way down to it's min. focus distance on the CLE !

So, problem solved, BUT:
the cutout of the lens is not centered at all, it is "centered enough" so the arm can follow the lens all the way,
but I'd prefer to have the lens centered because the roller is -maybe, can't see with naked eye- touching a tiny bit on one of the sides of the cutout.
I hope it will not scratch/brass the roller if it is actually touching it.

So I wonder if this is due to machining tolerance of the adapter, so it would need a true Leica adapter to be spot-on, or if this is due to the adapter being a 50mm one (I use a 50mm adapter to call 40mm framelines on the CLE) so a Leica adapter would be the same (cutout on the back of the Summaron not perfectly centered, as with this adapter or the cheap chinese ones)

--> Any experience or knowledge about this very welcome.

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Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5cm_M-3_ADAPTER_JAPAN.jpg (14.5 KB, 9 views)
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