Need metal reel technique help

[Chinasaur]

All..could use some advice.

Been using Paterson reels and tanks with no issues. However, getting a bit done with the sticking reel and having to pull it apart and retry and retry...

Soo, I cannot seem to get the hang of getting the film on the metal reel. I have a practice roll and try and try and can't seem to figure out how to crimp and roll the film & reel so that it spools onto the reel. It always skips to another level or stays on the same level.

I've even tried to "use the force" and just let it happen..Nope. Maybe my tounge is not hanging the right way? I've watched YouTube's and it doesn't help.

Please help me Obi Wan's....

Any pointers or ideas or comments from those who DO use metal reels?

Thanks so much in advance!

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Practice on an unused roll of film in the light so you can see what you're doing a few times, then try it in the dark and turn the lights on to check your work. Once you get confident you can do it right, do it in the dark with a roll you have shot pictures on.

Also with metal reels the quality of the reel is paramount. Cheap reels are often poorly aligned right from the factory, and good reels can get knocked out of alignment if dropped or mistreated. If the two sides are not perfectly aligned, it is damn near impossible to load film correctly.

If you can afford them, Hewes reels are the very best, and they have a hook that holds the film's sprocket holes in the center of the reel so putting the film in incorrectly is almost impossible. They're about $30 each, but WORTH IT.

[Chinasaur]

Chris, that's what I'm doing/have been doing. I have a reel/tank from Freestyle..reel has a clip. Doesn't seem to help. I can't get the muscle memory to find a way to spool on the film so it goes on correctly. I can get the film under the clip, but can't seem to spool it on right.

Am I pulling too hard or not enough or what? I know it's hard to identify a problem long distance over the net

EDIT: That was it! Both sides have deformations in them and BOTH are canted at the same angle to center. I kept wondering how I could be so inept..

Thanks. Now off to buy a good reel.

[Livesteamer]

Your hands need to be very clean and very dry to let the film slip thru your fingers easily. Moisture is your enemy in loading metal reels. It's very easy when it's right. Good Luck. Joe

[Beemermark]

Are you putting a slight bow on the film as you wind it on? The film width has to be slightly narrower than the reel guides.

[Chinasaur]

Yep and Yep. Turned out reel was out of true. Ordering Hewes. Thanks!

[dschal]

Good move. The Hewes reels are worth the cost!

[sukumizu]

Originally Posted by Chinasaur

Chris, that's what I'm doing/have been doing. I have a reel/tank from Freestyle..reel has a clip. Doesn't seem to help. I can't get the muscle memory to find a way to spool on the film so it goes on correctly. I can get the film under the clip, but can't seem to spool it on right.

Am I pulling too hard or not enough or what? I know it's hard to identify a problem long distance over the net

EDIT: That was it! Both sides have deformations in them and BOTH are canted at the same angle to center. I kept wondering how I could be so inept..

Thanks. Now off to buy a good reel.

I was at freestyle the other week and one of the guys on the floor actually dissuaded me from getting the off brand metal reel and instead told me that the plastic tank/reel combo would be cheaper and easier to load... Turned out to be good advice, loaded my first tank up in about 5 minutes without an issue.

[yossarian123]

Went through the same issues. I practiced and practiced in the light but as soon as it went dark I couldn't do it. I finally switched to Patterson plastic reels and never looked back.

[2WK]

I have two Hewes, and two generic Arista ones from Freestyle. I'm actually starting to really like the generic ones. I have been loading them faster than the hewes lately because of some minor dings in them. Definitely look at what you are doing in the light on a spent negative. Then do it with your eyes closed, then move to that dark. I was in the same boat as you and had no idea how it was going to work, but once you do, you realize it is very simple.

For the reels with the clips.... I start with my left hand holding the reel and right hand with the neg. My left thumb depresses the spring/clip and my left thumb and forefinger slip the neg into the clip area. Keep the negative slight bowed with your right hand and then start turning with you left. Listen carefully for any crinkle sounds. If you hear something, back the roll up and try again with more bow/bend to your neg. Once you get going, it is just a matter of turning the reel and spool it all up.

I hope this helps.. Good luck!

[mike rosenlof]

I agree with Chris. I like the 35mm Hewes reels a lot. They have little pins that grab the perforations.

I'm less fond of their 120 reels. They have the more standard wire clip and grabs pretty tightly unless I use my thumb to let the film float around until it's gone at least half a turn. In general though, 120 reels are a lot easier to load because the gap in the spiral is bigger.

So for those of you who wind 120 onto metal reels, I have a question. I wind off the film and then cut off the corners of the tape end, and put the tape end in the clip. It's worked for me for years, but I'm curious how others might do this.

[mike rosenlof]

I too have found the Patterson reel pretty easy to load. For some reason that I can't quite remember, I switched to metal reels about 15 years ago...

[Doug]

Originally Posted by mike rosenlof

I agree with Chris. I like the 35mm Hewes reels a lot. They have little pins that grab the perforations.

I'm less fond of their 120 reels. They have the more standard wire clip and grabs pretty tightly unless I use my thumb to let the film float around until it's gone at least half a turn. In general though, 120 reels are a lot easier to load because the gap in the spiral is bigger.

So for those of you who wind 120 onto metal reels, I have a question. I wind off the film and then cut off the corners of the tape end, and put the tape end in the clip. It's worked for me for years, but I'm curious how others might do this.

I like both Hewes and Kindermann reels, but the small-tank 220 reels are really tough to load because of the tight wrap and small wire. Have to really feel your way on each rotation and listen for that crinkling noise that signifies a mistake.

Mike your way might be better. I feed the film onto the reel right off the spool and let the paper drop, cutting the tape at the end. The problem is minor but this end of the film has been more tightly wrapped on the spool so has a stronger curl.

I handle my reels gently but still I find some out of whack when I check them periodically. A reel that is off a bit, such that the two wire helixes are not exactly parallel, a bit closer to each other one one side than the other... This is a hard reel to get film to wrap smoothly. They can be tweaked back into alignment. Check yours!

[mike rosenlof]

220 is tougher, but I don't have any more 220 film, and I only do B&W.

I have one 220 reel that is great. It's got the wire size and spacing of a 120 reel. It just won't fit in a standard tank. Extra large diameter for the whole reel. I used it in total darkness in a set of plastic food storage thingies I got a target. Since there are no 220 films that I'm aware of, it will probably never get used again.

[BardParker]

I have Freestyle Premium plastic reels with the long lead in guide that load very easily every time. I also bought a brand new Hewes 120 metal reel that I cannot seem to load correctly without crinkles. Can't feel any overlaps sticking through the ends but still I have ruined several rolls from vacation. Unless I can get this corrected, I'm going back to the plastic reels....

Kent

[Vincent.G]

Originally Posted by Chinasaur

All..could use some advice.

Been using Paterson reels and tanks with no issues. However, getting a bit done with the sticking reel and having to pull it apart and retry and retry...

Soo, I cannot seem to get the hang of getting the film on the metal reel. I have a practice roll and try and try and can't seem to figure out how to crimp and roll the film & reel so that it spools onto the reel. It always skips to another level or stays on the same level.

I've even tried to "use the force" and just let it happen..Nope. Maybe my tounge is not hanging the right way? I've watched YouTube's and it doesn't help.

Please help me Obi Wan's....

Any pointers or ideas or comments from those who DO use metal reels?

Thanks so much in advance!

If you were fine with Paterson, why change? Sticking plastic reel is most likely because the reel is not dry. That was my painful beginner experience. Another possibility is sweat from your fingers or palm.

Never try a stainless steel reel before but I am very happy with my Paterson plastic reels.

[PMCC]

Originally Posted by mike rosenlof

So for those of you who wind 120 onto metal reels, I have a question. I wind off the film and then cut off the corners of the tape end, and put the tape end in the clip. It's worked for me for years, but I'm curious how others might do this.

That's how I do it. Works well with Hewes reels, despite the very tight wire clips, and with the old Nikor reels with the sheet metal friction clips (not spring-loaded). With plastic reels I like Arista Premium with oversize guides, but in general I much prefer steel reels and tanks for ease of filling, economy of chemistry, temp control and agitation by inversion.

[Lawrence Sheperd]

One trick I developed after many frustrating attempts at loading 35mm was to slightly pull the film back and forth as I wound it on the reel (and I do mean slightly, like a few millimeters in each direction.) While this may not have aided the film in following the "groove" of the reel, it did allow me to feel when I either skipped a groove or started to wind on to the part of the groove already occupied by film. The slight change in resistance to the to-and-fro motion of the film was the tip-off and I only needed to unwind a short section of film and try again.

[f6andBthere]

Harsh I realise!

[Mablo]

When using a SS reel with a clip it's mostly better to skip the clip and keep the film in place with your thumb for the first round. You can also use Larry's excellent tip above. After a couple of rounds push the film back a little bit. When the film moves back freely everything is fine. When it feels stuck go back a round or two.

[mervynyan]

Why stay with metal reel if it doesn't work for you? Get a plastice reel, once snap on, keep turning the roll you are done. It will take maybe 10ml more solutions but I never have problem.

[semrich]

Another vote for Hewes reels both 135 and 120.

[zauhar]

Originally Posted by Vincent.G

If you were fine with Paterson, why change? Sticking plastic reel is most likely because the reel is not dry. That was my painful beginner experience. Another possibility is sweat from your fingers or palm.

Never try a stainless steel reel before but I am very happy with my Paterson plastic reels.

I will say again that the Samigon reels are miles above the Paterson. So long as they are completely dry, I have no issues getting the film loaded. With the Paterson, I have gotten to the point that I can always get the film on, but usually with a little struggle.

Don't know the make of my one steel reel (I took over a fellow's dark room equipment to get started), but it has two lousy prongs to engage the film sprocket, they are a little too big and almost impossible, even with the lights on.

Randy

[sepiareverb]

Metal reels, once mastered and properly cared for are vastly superior to plastic. They can be loaded when wet and wet film can be loaded onto a reel should that be needed (ever drop a film as it comes out of the photoflo?) I recently had to use a plastic reel as I had no 127 metal reels. An exercise in frustration.

Hewes 35 reels are certainly the best, well worth the extra price as they are far more reliable to load. The teeth insure the film is on correctly from the start, the main problem one has with metal reels. I've never used the clip with the standard metal reels (Nikkor/Kinderman/Samigon) but rather have let the clip be a means of locating where the film should go into the center of the reel. The space just outboard from the clip is where I always inserted the film.

Then all it takes is a slight pressure on the film between thumb and a finger to keep the film slightly cupped (like is is when dry- shiny side up), and the index finger of the hand holding the reel to hold the loaded film in place while the reel is turned. Sounds more complicated than it is.

There is a good video on YouTube about loading a Hewes reel.

The only thing to worry about with metal reels is keeping them true, so no dropping them. They are a precision piece of equipment, and the cheaper the metal reel the more reliably one has problems with it.