M Aesthetics - Real Talk

maclaine · 10-16-2012

Let me preface this by saying this thread is merely some fun griping/nitpicking. I know various molehills have been made into mountains regarding extra 2mm of height or larger shutter speed dials, but there are a couple of lesser features of certain M's I feel I'm in the minority about.

1) I prefer the M4 style film advance lever over the M3 style. Maybe I'm biased because my first M was an M4, but it feels better to me, and when it's in its default position, the way the lines sit against the body seem so much more natural than the much more phallic M3's.

2) I hate the beveled windows around the M3's various windows. It just looks so extraneous and makes the face of the camera unnecessarily chunky.

It probably sounds like I'm really down on the M3, but I do actually like the rest of the camera's aesthetics. The old style film rewind lever is nice, and I like the shape of the various levers on the front. I'm just saying that losing the two above features in future cameras was not an issue, as far as I'm concerned. I've often thought that, if I had the money for an MP a la carte, it would have have black paint, vulcanite, old style rewind lever, top paint, and an M4 advance lever. If it had the M3's viewfinder, even better. One can dream.

Peter_Jones · 10-16-2012

I'll swap you my M4 lever for your M3 lever

ottluuk · 10-16-2012

Agreed. The various little changes give the M4 a bit more modern/functional look compared to the earlier models and it retains the clean unlabeled front and engraved top. I don't mind the new style levers.

leicapixie · 10-16-2012

The frames around the viewfinder on the M3, prevent fingermarks.. Those all the time on M4,M6. The advance lever on my M3 has never scratched or show wear on the body! That is the special province of the M4,M6 etc.
The wrong way round shutter dial on the M6! Always go to a slower speed..DUH! The M3 has another disgusting fault! If it were not for the M3 as a yardstick, no one would comment on flare range-viewfinders of the improved M's..

Joosep · 10-16-2012

I for once like the "wrong way dial". I find it odd, because my earlier slr camera had it the "right way"... Somehow it just fits me.

I like the newer advance lever while shooting more, but the old one does aesthetically intrigue me.
And the front ? The MP style all-clean look is my cup of tea.

Pirate · 10-16-2012

Wow, those two points you make are complete opposite from me. I love the M3 rewind lever and the framing around the windows. My first M was an M4. Picked up an M3 shortly after and sold the M4. It's the details that make us different ;-)

Livesteamer · 10-16-2012

Sounds like you need an M6 with the .85 finder. I have one and it's a great camera. Not quite as smooth as my M3 but the differences are very small and the M6 .85 has a meter. Pair it with a chrome M6 .72 and you have a wonderful pair. Joe

ChrisN · 10-16-2012

The M5 was the only M that Leica delivered with the perfect shutter speed dial.

maclaine · 10-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisN

The M5 was the only M that Leica delivered with the perfect shutter speed dial.

And yet the drastic change in aesthetics were despised by so many! Will Leica EVER make the perfect camera to please us fickle photogs?

maclaine · 10-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livesteamer

Sounds like you need an M6 with the .85 finder. I have one and it's a great camera. Not quite as smooth as my M3 but the differences are very small and the M6 .85 has a meter. Pair it with a chrome M6 .72 and you have a wonderful pair. Joe

I would love a .85 M6. I once saw one at a local camera place for just shy of $1k. I pointed it out to the salesman, who clearly thought I was mistaken, until he saw the markings on the viewfinder window. I'm sure the price went up 50-100% the moment I left. I should have thrown down the old credit card and just bought it.

V-12 · 10-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by maclaine

Will Leica EVER make the perfect camera to please us fickle photogs?

I think they genuinely tried in the days of the M3 and M2 etc. Products had a longer shelf life as well. Unfortunately I think Leica now build in an element of 'improveability' to lengthen the shelf life and guard against a dip in sales. Look at the M8 and M9, both get cosmetic makeovers at a key point in their lifespan addressing 'ugly' features (like black chrome in the M8, Steel Grey paint with the M9). It will be the same again with the new 'M'. In two to three years it will get a cosmetic makeover to make it as beautiful as it can be, maybe some extra script etc, but something that has been intentionally left out of the original design.

JHP · 10-17-2012

The new 'M' wouldn't suit engraving. It's a purposely modern camera, I like the look of it. Engraving the Leica script would be a bit nostalgic for it. I think, anyway.

Roger Hicks · 10-17-2012

Can't get very excited about any of it, even the ugly red dot. I use Leicas to take pictures, and have done for over 40 years. For over 30 years, my Leicas and my keyboard have been the major part of how I earn my living: I currently own M2, M4-P, MP, M8, M9 (and a IIIa). 'Real talk'? Remember the expression about talking the talk and walking the walk...

Cheers,

R.

Mattco26 · 10-17-2012

I love all the things about my M3 that you dislike. Go figure.

V-12 · 10-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Can't get very excited about any of it, even the ugly red dot. I use Leicas to take pictures, and have done for over 40 years. For over 30 years, my Leicas and my keyboard have been the major part of how I earn my living: I currently own M2, M4-P, MP, M8, M9 (and a IIIa). 'Real talk'? Remember the expression about talking the talk and walking the walk...

Cheers,

R.

Yeah Roger, and if your Leica's had looked like a dogs breakfast of design you'd have made just as much money wouldn't you

Roger Hicks · 10-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by V-12

Yeah Roger, and if your Leica's had looked like a dogs breakfast of design you'd have made just as much money wouldn't you

Or as little.

But an awful lot of the things people are complaining about are pretty trivial minor variations. With the exception of the M5, most Leicas look OK, as long as they're not worn black chrome. And even that isn't a deal-breaker. Just looks like a dog's breakfast...

Cheers,

R.

PMCC · 10-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by maclaine

I would love a .85 M6. I once saw one at a local camera place for just shy of $1k. I pointed it out to the salesman, who clearly thought I was mistaken, until he saw the markings on the viewfinder window. I'm sure the price went up 50-100% the moment I left. I should have thrown down the old credit card and just bought it.

The M6 .85 (non-TTL) is a very nice body for 50mm lenses and longer. Some are worried by RF patch flare, but it seems to vary from user to user and for me it hasn't been a problem. Pairs nicely with an MP .58 mounted with a 28mm or 35mm, and the shutter dials on both bodies move the same way. Or get an M3/M2 combo.

maclaine · 10-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Or as little.

But an awful lot of the things people are complaining about are pretty trivial minor variations. With the exception of the M5, most Leicas look OK, as long as they're not worn black chrome. And even that isn't a deal-breaker. Just looks like a dog's breakfast...

Cheers,

R.

My griping is all in good fun. I have also used all manner of Leicas to take pictures I'm very happy with, as well as cameras whose design I truly despise (modern, blob shaped things). At the moment, the only rangefinder I have is a Zorki 4 with a late '50s Jupiter-3 on it. Aesthetics are nowhere to be found, as well as ergonomics, or even common sense. However, it still takes fantastic pictures, and that's all I care about.

maclaine · 10-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMCC

The M6 .85 (non-TTL) is a very nice body for 50mm lenses and longer. Some are worried by RF patch flare, but it seems to vary from user to user and for me it hasn't been a problem. Pairs nicely with an MP .58 mounted with a 28mm or 35mm, and the shutter dials on both bodies move the same way. Or get an M3/M2 combo.

I've found that I tend to shoot exclusively 50mm on rangefinders, so when and if I am able to purchase a replacement M6 for the one I no longer have, it will have a .85 viewfinder. My previous M6 had some flare issues here and there, but a quick eye position adjustment usually solved the problem.

KoNickon · 10-17-2012

You want handsome AND functional? Look no further than the Hexar RF.

Roger Hicks · 10-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by maclaine

My griping is all in good fun. I have also used all manner of Leicas to take pictures I'm very happy with, as well as cameras whose design I truly despise (modern, blob shaped things). At the moment, the only rangefinder I have is a Zorki 4 with a late '50s Jupiter-3 on it. Aesthetics are nowhere to be found, as well as ergonomics, or even common sense. However, it still takes fantastic pictures, and that's all I care about.

Of course, of course. I apologize if my posts came across otherwise. After all, what is this forum for if not idle fun? As in your wonderful description of a Zorkii 4 (I prefer the -K myself).

Cheers,

R

V-12 · 10-17-2012

I think just handling a camera can change perceptions of attractiveness. Having had just about every Leica going over the past forty years (except the M5) the CL had always gone way under my radar. It had never looked useful, or even attractive enough to make up for it not being useful. Until this year when on a wild punt I got one on Ebay, and it is a beauty! But I needed to hold it, see it in my hand, feel where my fingers rested on the controls for it to all come together. I now look at it in an entirely different way. Similar things have happened with an ALPA, which didn't look sexy but felt sexy, and a Hasselblad which looked sexy but felt ugly.