DSLR less obvious than Rangefinder these days?

[Roger Hicks]

As a matter of interest, what and where is this 'bling' advertising for Leica? I'm not being dismissive: I just see very little advertising these days, living in a small village in rural France with no television and reading very few mainstream magazines or newspapers.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by PKR

Hi Roger;

I made that comment and it came from all of the posts (on many non photo forums) and some Leica web material citing famous people using Leica cameras. It seems more of these folks are sporting their Leicas in public and are photographed with them. Tom Cruse, Brad Pitt, et all. The Leica folks like this publicity as they often leverage it for sales.

Thanks. Soooo... It's not exactly advertising. How do they 'leverage' it? Again, I'm not arguing: the Seal concert at the launch of the M/M10 was certainly 'celebrity endorsement'. But then, they had Nick Ut and Kim Phuc there as well.

Cheers,

R.

[D.J.]

The New York Times:

The latest status symbol in Hollywood, it seems, is not the 8 p.m. reservation at the Tower Bar, but the Leica M-system range finder, a retro-chic camera that has become the accessory of choice for the celebrity class on red carpets, film sets or vacation.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by PKR

Hi Roger; You know I think you're a good guy, so I don't at all mind you dogging into this. Most companies have a PR machine. I've worked for many and you may have too. These folks (in the old days) had a clipping service that would clip any printed news mention of their product. Today with the web it's likely much bigger.

The only company that I have any inside knowledge of is the N camera company. That company has a wing that does anything it can to put their hardware in places where it will get positive viewing publicity. This includes feature films, TV spots (if there is a camera in the spot - they want it to be one of theirs), and they will give cameras to folks who might serve as an endorsement. They also pay to have their cameras placed in non sponsored ads and feature films. Look at what Nikon and even a bigger player, Hasselblad gained in ad value for their work with NASA.

I saw this with a photographer friend, a Leica user, who was often photographed working. He likely sold a lot of Leica camera gear to want-to-be rock music photographers.

If Nikon could get Brad Pitt to pack a Nikon rather than a Leica, they would surely give him a new one at every release.

That was my meaning.

There can be very little doubt you are right; and you're also right about the PR machines. My only query would be how effective it is. For the relatively trivial cost -- a few tens of thousands a year -- I doubt it matters: it's VERY cheap advertising.

Sure, providing chapter and verse would be extremely tedious, and probably meaningless, which is why I wouldn't dream of asking you to do it. If you're involved in the business, impressions are often worth more than (strained and contrived) chapter and verse anyway. As I say, I think you're right. But I was just curious...

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by D.J.

The New York Times:

The latest status symbol in Hollywood, it seems, is not the 8 p.m. reservation at the Tower Bar, but the Leica M-system range finder, a retro-chic camera that has become the accessory of choice for the celebrity class on red carpets, film sets or vacation.

Entertaining, if not outstandingly well informed (see the correction, for a start). Thanks for the link.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by PKR

Not in the business at all. I work as a photographer, but over the years I've been best friends with one of the big guys in the US end of the company. He was at times the guy who visited the "stars" with a camera in hand.

Involved enough. How many who post here have ANY knowledge of the majority of subjects whereon they post? Or even hung round with people who do have any significant knowledge of said subjects?

Cheers,

R.

[batey_1020]

Im very surprised that no one has mentioned our humble view blocking friend the IPAD...

[D.J.]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

How many who post here have ANY knowledge of the majority of subjects whereon they post? Or even hung round with people who do have any significant knowledge of said subjects?

Cheers,

R.

47?




.......

[Adanac]

Originally Posted by denizg7

... this guy was trying hard looking professional zooming on the ground of a dark wooden floor of the bar and taking pictures.. I love these guys

/dramatic wave of the hand/

It's art. Don't question it.

[Contarama]

I've had my Contaflex mistaken for a Leica one time (I can't imagine why but he stopped me and asked if it was a Leica). I would think that a Leica user would definitely know another Leica when they saw one and would likely try talking to the user.

[furcafe]

True, but, like NYC or DC, SF is not exactly representative of the U.S. or the rest of the world (e.g., I doubt that there are many places w/a wet plate photo studio like Photobooth in the Mission).

The (almost all) men I encounter who recognize Leicas tend to fall into the following 4 groups (though obviously some people fall into more than 1), in descending order of frequency:

(1) Nostalgists, usually Baby Boomer & older photo nerds, typically someone who used to shoot w/them "back in the day" but now uses a dSLR or mirrorless w/autofocus "because their eyes are going." I put guys who remember their fathers or grandfathers using a Leica in this group, too.
(2) Spec-oriented photo nerds, often middle-aged dentists/doctors/lawyers/tech businessmen, who shoot w/them now because "they're the best." I guess these are the dudes buying the new 50mm APO.
(3) Art school photo nerds (college age & up). These are the guys who often have an arts background like your SF folks, but design web sites or whatever to pay the bills. If they have a good paying job & own 1, they're more likely to talk about being inspired by [fill in the blank famous photographer who used a Leica] & how a Leica "is an extension of my hand."
(4) Working photojournalists & professional photographers who recognize & respect an iconic tool. They're always complaining that Leicas are too expensive to be used by "real photographers" anymore.

Originally Posted by PKR

Lots of what you call "photo nurds" in SF.

Sadly, that's true of most of the country & also goes for car models, sports teams, reality shows, etc.

Originally Posted by PKR

I think the general public knows more about camera models than they do about the folks running their local government.

[jtm6]

Originally Posted by batey_1020

Im very surprised that no one has mentioned our humble view blocking friend the IPAD...

Your Dumb iPad Picture Taking Is Keeping Real Photographers From Doing Their Jobs

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Adanac

/dramatic wave of the hand/

It's art. Don't question it.

Surely

/back of wrist pressed to brow/

Cheers,

R.

[Phat]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Welcome, and of course you are absolutely right. But some people have difficulty in acting naturally, even when they are there 'for something'. Others have bought into a ridiculous 'stealth' fantasy. Perhaps I might rephrase your exhortation as "Act the way you feel -- and if you don't feel confident you're there for a good reason, ask yourself why not."

Cheers,

R.

The urge to go and photograph should come from a creative drive, not the need to go out and play the street photographer because its the cool thing to do. People who lack confidence also lack creativity and hence its better for them to go back and reflect on their skill level and learn the basic stuff instead of working on their acting skills on the street.

[Jamie Pillers]

Originally Posted by PKR

I recall that you have a Fuji x-100? How do people in public react to your camera? Would black version make a difference?

Actually a pink version would likely work best. No one would take it seriously. Or maybe one of those bodies made out of Legos?

[Jamie Pillers]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Probably. Frances and I shoot together a lot (for a given value of 'together' -- sometimes we're not in sight of one another). But equally, as I get more grandfatherly, the differences seem to diminish. ...

I'm a 65-yr. old white guy and I have a ten year old daughter, adopted from China. Last year I was standing around the ball field where my daughter was playing with other kids in a summer day camp. I had a DSLR with me and was taking pictures of her play. Very quickly I was confronted by the camp staff, asking who I was and what was I doing. Eventually, after they checked my ID and their records via radio to staff headquarters, they backed off. But I'm pretty certain that if I'd been the typical 'soccer mom' taking the same pictures, I would not have been confronted.

This year I was at Cape Cod riding around on a bike and stopping wherever to take landscape photos. At one point I stopped at a beach parking lot and starting making a photograph of the beach and ocean, in which some kids were playing. The kids were probably 100 yards away. Before I'd snapped off two shots, a guy jumps out of his truck and yells at me to "stop taking pictures of my kids!" I tried to show him the picture I'd taken, on the screen of my XPro1. I thought that when he saw I'd been using a wide-angle lens, he'd see that his kids were mere specs in the scene. But nope; he just got more belligerent, threatening to call the cops. I told him to go right ahead, as I bicycled off down the road. I know I could have argued that his kids don't really have any rights to not be photographed in a public space, but... whatever.

I've also had security guards outside office buildings ask me not to take pictures of their lobby spaces viewable from the street.

Are things getting worse? Has the media frenzy fueled by need to sensationalize everything caused a LOT of people to respond to photographers with a knee-jerk paranoid reaction?

I often respond to these folks by asking them how we'd know what early 20th century America looked like if some photographer had not made 'street' photographs. I've never noticed any 'light bulbs' coming on when I pose that thought to them. Maybe they consider it later after they go home feeling better that they've protected society from the terrorist/pervert photographer.

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers

I'm a 65-yr. old white guy and I have a ten year old daughter, adopted from China. Last year I was standing around the ball field where my daughter was playing with other kids in a summer day camp. I had a DSLR with me and was taking pictures of her play. Very quickly I was confronted by the camp staff, asking who I was and what was I doing. Eventually, after they checked my ID and their records via radio to staff headquarters, they backed off. But I'm pretty certain that if I'd been the typical 'soccer mom' taking the same pictures, I would not have been confronted.

This year I was at Cape Cod riding around on a bike and stopping wherever to take landscape photos. At one point I stopped at a beach parking lot and starting making a photograph of the beach and ocean, in which some kids were playing. The kids were probably 100 yards away. Before I'd snapped off two shots, a guy jumps out of his truck and yells at me to "stop taking pictures of my kids!" I tried to show him the picture I'd taken, on the screen of my XPro1. I thought that when he saw I'd been using a wide-angle lens, he'd see that his kids were mere specs in the scene. But nope; he just got more belligerent, threatening to call the cops. I told him to go right ahead, as I bicycled off down the road. I know I could have argued that his kids don't really have any rights to not be photographed in a public space, but... whatever.

I've also had security guards outside office buildings ask me not to take pictures of their lobby spaces viewable from the street.

Are things getting worse? Has the media frenzy fueled by need to sensationalize everything caused a LOT of people to respond to photographers with a knee-jerk paranoid reaction?

I often respond to these folks by asking them how we'd know what early 20th century America looked like if some photographer had not made 'street' photographs. I've never noticed any 'light bulbs' coming on when I pose that thought to them. Maybe they consider it later after they go home feeling better that they've protected society from the terrorist/pervert photographer.

You should chuck a copy of the photographers rights laws to photograph anything in a public space in your bag, and just bring it out and give it to them when you get confronted. I know some people definitely hassled more than others.

[lynnb]

if one wants to disappear...wear an hawaiian shirt and use a sony rx100...completely invisable!

Agree with Joe here - how others "code" you is probably the biggest factor. Being different - whether by the type of camera you hold, or through appearance or behaviour - is most likely to gain attention. In paranoid societies, being different is likely to be coded as "potential threat".
A tourist in a hawaiian shirt carrying a pink camera is not likely to be coded as a threat. Neither is a woman carrying a DSLR with kids in tow, or a bunch of kids with cell phones. Behaviour and presentation (including confidence) that is different from what is expected in any given context is likely to gain attention.

[lynnb]

Are things getting worse? Has the media frenzy fueled by need to sensationalize everything caused a LOT of people to respond to photographers with a knee-jerk paranoid reaction?

Jamie, I don't think your experience is uncommon in countries like the US, Britain and Australia. The public are not interested in facts when their emotional buttons have been pushed. People in these societies have been primed to look for threats.

[Jamie Pillers]

Originally Posted by lynnb

Jamie, I don't think your experience is uncommon in countries like the US, Britain and Australia. The public are not interested in facts when their emotional buttons have been pushed. People in these societies have been primed to look for threats.

Lynn, I get the feeling that in the situations I've faced, the people confronting me weren't even very worried or scared of what I was doing. They were just looking for an opportunity to harass someone... for what reason's I can only imagine.

[George Bonanno]

Originally Posted by denizg7

Lol did you ever come up to those NYC meet ups for RFF before?

No I haven't. Is it something I should consider ? Where and when ?

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Phat

The urge to go and photograph should come from a creative drive, not the need to go out and play the street photographer because its the cool thing to do. People who lack confidence also lack creativity and hence its better for them to go back and reflect on their skill level and learn the basic stuff instead of working on their acting skills on the street.

No, I think that is absolutely, flatly untrue. It may be true for you but there have been plenty of confident artists and plenty who lack confidence. On what basis (other than your own immediately personal experience) do you make your assertion?

I'd also add that there are a lot of people who are extremely confident about taking pictures, but utterly incompetent at it.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers

Actually a pink version would likely work best. No one would take it seriously. Or maybe one of those bodies made out of Legos?

That's one reason why I love the polka dot Op/Tech Hood Hats I use on my Leicas. Very few people believe that a serious photographer would use anything that looks as silly as that, so (unless they know a fair amount about cameras) they 'read' my M9 or MP as a point-and-shoot.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by lynnb

Jamie, I don't think your experience is uncommon in countries like the US, Britain and Australia. The public are not interested in facts when their emotional buttons have been pushed. People in these societies have been primed to look for threats.

Dear Lynn,

But, mercifully, such attitudes are still uncommon in most of the rest of the world.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers

. . . Are things getting worse? Has the media frenzy fueled by need to sensationalize everything caused a LOT of people to respond to photographers with a knee-jerk paranoid reaction? . . .

Yes. But see my post above. This is one reason I'm glad I don't live in either the UK or the USA any more (I've never been to Australia).

Cheers,

R.