Which 90mm? Elmarit, Summicron

[jett]

OK so I'm looking for a Leica 90mm lens.

I'm more of a 35mm/50mm type of person but I feel compelled to get a 90mm lens. I want to atleast try one. My budget is flexible. I'd prefer to spend $600 and less but I'm willing to spend up to $1000 if the added value is worth it.

I checked keh.com and I see a few brg 90mm's.

-90mm f2.0 Summicron Chrome Engraved (Canada) (48) :$599
-90mm f2.8 Elmarit-M Chrome (Germany) (46): $1669
-90mm f2.8 Elmarit Chrome (Germany) (39): $379

Elmarit-M is way out of my budget. I'm not sure why it is so costly but it is definitely not a consideration.


Here is what I want in a lens:
-Minimum f2.8 lens speed
-Good resolution at wide aperutres
-Low-moderate contrast
-Great Build quality.

I don't know how compact I need this lens to be. I mostly have 50's and 35's but I hear many people selling their 90mm summicrons because they are too big.

[venchka]

I own both Elamarits you mention above. The first and last versions. The reason I keep the first version is because I can never decide which one to keep and which one to sell. They are both very nice lenses.
I also have an 85/2.0 Nikkor to solve the Summicron vs. Elmarit problem. A very nice lens as well.
Does anyone really need all 3? Grinning.
Good luck.

Wayne

[Rico]

I have the classic Elmarit 90 in chrome and, out of 14 Leitz M/LTM lenses, it's my biggest disappointment. The build quality and ergonomics are awesome, but the OOF rendition fore and aft is very harsh. One can stop down, of course, but then a smaller Elmar is the better choice. I have three of the latter and recommend them highly for smoothness, low weight, and price.

The Elmarit v2 is much more expensive because of its modern performance and super-smooth bokeh. Price recently has gone insane.

[baisao]

I was in the same position recently, looking for a good 90mm. For me weight/size is a factor because if it is too big or too heavy, it won't make it into my bag for an outing. I compared lots of shots on Flickr to help me decide. I eventually settled on the 90mm Tele-Elmarit M. The thin one. I realize there are better 90's out there but I just could not see a significant enough difference.

The Tele-Elmarit M has good to neutral bokeh, is as sharp as you will ever need, with only a smidge of pincushion that is only seen on the bench. It has given a unique 3D quality to some of my photos. I am very happy with my choice. Just be sure to get the metal hood as some people get flare with it. Best of all...it's small.

All in all I think it is an under rated lens. Look for S/N over 3,200,000.

[Damaso]

I would recommend the 90mm summarit. Used you may be able to find one less than $1,000. A great performer...

[venchka]

Since the folks above have expanded the search criteria, don't overlook the Konica Hexanon 90/2.8.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...8&postcount=21

Regarding the original 90mm Elmarit...my Bokeh OCD must be in remission.





The last version 90mm Elmarit-M is in a class by itself. And it is black. Very stealthy on Bigfoot.



W.F.O. & minimum focus distance.



I shouldn't do this. Just to muddy the waters. WARNING: It's big. It's heavy. It's terrible. Like the M5, "it doesn't get no respect." Nikkor 8.5cm/2.0 Chrome.





Enjoy the search.

Wayne

[ChrisN]

Perhaps this is heresy, but why not start with a Cosina-Voigtlander 90/3.5 APO-Lanthar (in LTM, with adapter) to see if you like the focal length?

I know you'd like a 2.8, but the CV is nominally just half a stop slower, and in the 90mm focal length gives plenty of subject isolation used wide open (and it's still pretty sharp at f/3.5, too).

I'm not sure what these go for these days, but I picked up an excellent example for about $200.

[venchka]

Thanks Chris! The C/V 90mm is always overlooked.

The list grows.

Wayne

[zauhar]

I likewise am looking for a 90mm.

What about the older 90mm summicrons?

Randy

[venchka]

Originally Posted by zauhar

I likewise am looking for a 90mm.

What about the older 90mm summicrons?

Randy

For substantially less money give the Nikkor 8.5cm/2.0 a try. If you like the looks & don't mind the size, then go Summicron shopping.

Wayne

[mfogiel]

I think, that if you would use this lens for portraiture, then there is no contest - get the Summicron, whatever version. If instead you need it for landscapes, etc, then any Elmarit, maybe apart from the old chrome v1 will be good enough.
Summicron


20125721 by mfogiel, on Flickr

Elmarit last


20100733 by mfogiel, on Flickr

[astro8]

Originally Posted by zauhar

I likewise am looking for a 90mm.

What about the older 90mm summicrons?

Randy

I really like the v1 elmarit...you can get them for a decent price too

I had Youxin clean mine. When I got it back I tested it with a few shots on the R-D1 and thought...wow, this will do me for a 90.

[sazerac]

I think it depends on which 50 you shoot. I have the current 50/2 and went with the Elmarit-M because they seemed to compliment each other very well. I think you could probably also go the opposite and get a lens with more character. I prefer the 35/1.2 because it has a very dream like quality.

I've seen images from the old 90/2 that are very nice. It is a bigger lens but I think heavy lenses are worth it if they give you what you want. If size and weight are important than the Tele-Elmarit may be the way to go.

[jett]

Any size comparison of the lenses mentioned?

My main application would be landscape and environmental portraits. I'm not so interested in tradtional head/ head and shoulder portraits with a tele lens.

It seems that the V1 Elmarit does not get too many favorable reviews. Are the old Summicrons "better" than the V1 Elmarits, in terms of resolution/bokeh? Is there a difference in the rendering of the Tele and non-Tele Elmarits?

I'll keep the other non-Leica lenses in mind: the Konica, CV, and Nikkor ones.

My main 50mm is a Zeiss-Opton 50mm f1.5 Sonnar (not ZM) but I had planned on adding a DR Summicron next. I wanted an old Leica lens to be consistent in build/ergonomics and contrast rendition.

[venchka]

Originally Posted by jett

... I had planned on adding a DR Summicron next. I wanted an old Leica lens to be consistent in build/ergonomics and contrast rendition.

Now you are talking my language. I also own a D.R. Summicron. To my eyes, the D.R. and the 90mm Elmarit are a perfect match. Old school drawing and make your eyes bleed resolution when needed. Without the "surgical, clinical" nature of the modern Leitz lenses.
My only explanation for the version 1 Elmarit bashing: Individual sample variation based on 50 year old (plus or minus) samples. OR, O.C.D. hyper picky turned up to Warp Factor One.
In my case, the D.R. was born in 1961 and the Elmarit in 1965. Both are in perfect working order.
The way Leitz lens prices are going, you can buy the v.1, try it, keep it or sell it and get your money back. Win-Win-Win.

Post #11 is good.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...hlight=Elmarit

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...13251&cat=5045

Wayne

[varjag]

Have a v1 Elmarit 90 and really see no reason to upgrade. They are among the few bargains left with Leica glass these days.


Света by varjagg, on Flickr

[mfogiel]

The Elmarit 90 v1 is a tad softer than later versions, but has a nicer bokeh wide open as a bonus.
In general, if you like high resolution low contrast lenses for B&W, here's a complete set:

Slow_Food by mfogiel, on Flickr

[philipus]

I have the Elmarit-M which I got for a song in Italy. It is, imho, only surpassed by the 90 APO. I use it on film and it performs unbelievably well. It is an exceptional lens. An example.



The only other 90 I would consider is the Tele-Elmarit-M. It supposedly performs well indeed (I started a thread a while ago for 90mm shots and there are some in there). It has the benefit of being very light, too. It is one I am seriously considering as a travel lens.

You should be able to find the TE-M within your budget. Looking around should even bring up the Elmarit-M at about $1000.

You write you want low contrast. The old Elmar, though f4, is such a lens in my experience. I have one from 1934 which is like new and a great performer. Very small, built like a tank, long focus throw. Really very nice. Here's an example.



I also have the Nikkor 8,5cm P-C f2 and it is very nice indeed. Rather heavy (and front heavy at that) plus the aperture rotates with the focusing which is annoying. But it performs well enough I find. However I will more often use the Elmarit-M because I find I can rely on it better in tricky light. Here's an example wide open.

[ramosa]

90mm f2.8 Elmarit-M Chrome (Germany) (46): $1669

Great lens. I have had it for eight months or so. No complaints. It's the only 90mm lens I will ever need. Solid performer, sharp but not ultra-clinical like some of the new asph lenses. Not too big. I have never figured out why Leica ever quit making this lens.

[venchka]

By the way, if you ever get a hankering for macro work, both the D.R. Summicron and the 90mm Elmarit optical assemblies unscrew from the focusing helicoid for mounting on a Visoflex.

Wayne

[Kent]

The best (and cheapest) was to test if you like that focal lenght is either an LTM (M39) Elmar 4/90 oder a Jupiter-9 2.0/85 (which go for almost the same amount ATM).

I even kept my Elmar, because I don't think I need a faster/better one...

[fotomeow]

I have the 90/2.8 "thin" Tele-Elmarit version from 1979.
IMO, this is the best all-round performer for price, quality, character, etc.
I think I got it for about $700 or less. e39mm filter.

Also, I have 2 of the older 90/4 Elmar's which are amazing lenses for $150-200.
Not as fast as the 2.8 you want, but hard to beat: med rez, med contrast with great tonal range.

[benmacphoto]

Having used both the 90 Summicron and 90 Tele- Elmarit.
I can say I loved the rendering of the Summicron.
And love the size of the Elmarit.

90 Summicron Chrome from 1959


90 Tele-Elmarit

[baisao]

90mm Tele-Elmarit M on FP4+



90mm Tele-Elmarit M on Velvia 100

[Rico]

Originally Posted by jett

My main 50mm is a Zeiss-Opton 50mm f1.5 Sonnar (not ZM) but I had planned on adding a DR Summicron next. I wanted an old Leica lens to be consistent in build/ergonomics and contrast rendition.

Most of my Leitz lenses are from the DR era. Besides the Elmar 90, another good match would be the Summicron: it's very heavy, but all images I see have excellent bokeh fore and aft. Note that all 90s of this period support Visoflex for closeup, except the collapsible. Sample from my Elmarit v1 with nasty foreground rendition: