Leica M early impression T Overgaard

[Richard G]

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M10-di...ngefinder.html

Apparently the new M gives just ONE set of frame lines for the mounted lens. Now that is worth saving for an M in my view. Other interesting points in his review.

[Vickko]

Yeah, and the tripod screw is in the center of the bottom.

Well, that's poured a gallon of gasoline on my flames of GAS for this camera.

Oh, what to sell, what to sell.

:-)

[EdwardKaraa]

Originally Posted by Richard G

http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M10-di...ngefinder.html

Apparently the new M gives just ONE set of frame lines for the mounted lens. Now that is worth saving for an M in my view. Other interesting points in his review.

Not according to David Farkas report. He shows a photo of the VF and the frames are the same as an M9. The only difference is that there is no window to illuminate them, so the lighting comes from LED placed within the body. You can select either red or white color.

[EdwardKaraa]

http://www.reddotforum.com/content.p...-1-The-Leica-M


"I also took a peak through the optical viewfinder to find that 1) it was still there and 2) the LED-illuminated frame lines look identical to those in the M9 Titanium. The frame lines are still in three sets: 28/90, 35/135 and 50/75. My guess is that the mechanical cam is still employed to move the traditional frame mask, but the illumination is now all internal. The frame lines change illumination based on ambient light and can be user set to either red or white. The red looks more high-tech, but the white is classic. "

[Vickko]

I could imagine since the CMOS is live, firmware could figure out the actual image and throw up framelines in the viewfinder.

Oh, the magic of software.

I wonder if it can do the lens corrections without 6-bit, and the "extra value" of 6-bit lenses has disappeared.

Originally Posted by JSU

Without the specific input of 6-bit coding, I wonder how the new M differentiates between a 28 or 90 mm lens (or 35 & 135 or 50 & 75, etc)?

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa

http://www.reddotforum.com/content.p...-1-The-Leica-M..... in three sets: 28/90, 35/135 and 50/75. ...... the illumination is now all internal. ........

Edward - Unfortunately, for those of us who intensely dislike the intrusion of 'paired', insider framelines in our viewfinders; it seems that Thorsten is incorrect with his assertion of single-only framelines. A pity.

If both paired framelines are bright, it suggests to me that the intrusion of the 'insider' framelines are likely to be even worse than they traditionally are. Can anyone who handled the camera at Photokina give a definitive description?

Does anyone know if Leica will delete, say, the 90/135/70 framelines ----- and at what cost?

................ Chris

[Richard G]

Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa

http://www.reddotforum.com/content.p...-1-The-Leica-M


"I also took a peak through the optical viewfinder to find that 1) it was still there and 2) the LED-illuminated frame lines look identical to those in the M9 Titanium. The frame lines are still in three sets: 28/90, 35/135 and 50/75. My guess is that the mechanical cam is still employed to move the traditional frame mask, but the illumination is now all internal. The frame lines change illumination based on ambient light and can be user set to either red or white. The red looks more high-tech, but the white is classic. "

Thought it was too good to be true. I'll stick with my M9-P.

[Vickko]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "intelligence". Just image processing, calculate the borders and project image of lines.

Imagine, it would automatically produce parallax correction.

This relegates the optical rangefinder to merely do triangulation, which is what it does best, for focal lengths 28mm to 135mm.

Oh, if they simplified the RF, I wonder why they didn't drop the price.

Originally Posted by JSU

Artificial intelligence?

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa

http://www.reddotforum.com/content.p...-1-The-Leica-M..... LED-illuminated frame lines look identical to those in the M9 Titanium......

Well, I'm even more confused now after straying into Mr. Rockwell's site :

I haven't tried it personally [M9 Titanium], but I've been told that the frame lines are now illuminated with internal LEDs, and better, that only one frame at a time lights in red,. The M9 Titanium can light just one frame at a time, instead of two at a time as on most other LEICAs, because focal lengths are read electronically instead of mechanically.

I know, I know; I shouldn't have gone there......

............. Chris

[EdwardKaraa]

Chris,

From Leica's own technical data sheet of the M9 Titanium:

http://en.leica-camera.com/service/d...tan/index.html

Image field indication

By activating two bright-line frames each illuminated with LEDs: For 35 and
135 mm, or for 28 and 90 mm, or for 50 and 75 mm. Automatically switched
when lens is attached.

[Peter Wijninga]

Conclusion -at least on what you see in the viewfinder when changing lenses....?

[georgl]

I was on PK and handled a prototype:

The illumination has changed but not the mechanism (except for sizing them again to 2m distance) itself, so it's still the normal frameline-pairs, period :-)

But the rest of the camera is completely new, even things that appear similar to it's predecessors like the shutter dial are new (everything feels dampened because there is no direct mechanical connection to the internals anymore).

[ChrisC]

Edward, Georgi, Peter - That's now clear. Many thanks.

.............. chris

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Vickko

I wouldn't go so far as to say "intelligence". Just image processing, calculate the borders and project image of lines.

Imagine, it would automatically produce parallax correction.

This relegates the optical rangefinder to merely do triangulation, which is what it does best, for focal lengths 28mm to 135mm.

Oh, if they simplified the RF, I wonder why they didn't drop the price.

No, but would you argue with 'artificial'?

I want an M type 240, but to use alongside my M9, not instead of.

Cheers,

R.

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

No, but would you argue with 'artificial'?

I want an M type 240, but to use alongside my M9, not instead of.

Cheers,

R.

Don't you think it will be annoying using very similar cameras each with different frameline calibrations? I tried using my M8U w/2m framelines alongside a borrowed M8 w/original lines and having to switch mental gears from one to the other especially at close focus was an extra something to have to keep in mind while shooting as compared to if both had the same frameline calibration.

[gavinlg]

Are there any sample images from this sensor floating around yet?

[theno23]

Weirdly I don't ever seem to be confused by the additional framelines in the viewfinder, though I constant remember to change the manual lens coding when changing lenses...

I'm hoping that I'll be able to cope with the 1m v's 2m calibrated views, as I expecting to keep using my M9 as well as my M 240.

- Steve

[Richard G]

M10 turned out to be the M and is quickly becoming instead the M 240. I like it.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Ben Z

Don't you think it will be annoying using very similar cameras each with different frameline calibrations? I tried using my M8U w/2m framelines alongside a borrowed M8 w/original lines and having to switch mental gears from one to the other especially at close focus was an extra something to have to keep in mind while shooting as compared to if both had the same frameline calibration.

Not as annoying as the different control layout: I switch happily enough between M9 and M8. Fortunately I'll be able to try it before I buy.

Cheers,

R.

[tele_player]

All M lenses cover the entire sensor, there's no way to 'figure out the actual image' to determine focal length. Optical 6-bit code is here to stay, at least for M lenses as we know them.

-Robert

Originally Posted by Vickko

I could imagine since the CMOS is live, firmware could figure out the actual image and throw up framelines in the viewfinder.

Oh, the magic of software.

I wonder if it can do the lens corrections without 6-bit, and the "extra value" of 6-bit lenses has disappeared.

[umcelinho]

having electronic framelines like the X100 has would be so sweet. only one focal length on the viewfinder and that could also mean 40mm, 85mm, 100mm shooters and so on would finally be able to shoot with their focal length framelines...

[Godfrey]

The X100 viewfinder was one of the reasons I didn't like it. So-so optical finder, easily too cluttered, and poor EVF.

The new M differs from the M9 viewfinder in that the frame line illuminatir is now an LED light source instead of ambient light, just like the M9 Titanium. This means the frame lines can always be consistently bright and adjust in brightness for ambient conditions, and their color can be set by the user between red and white.

The frame line mechanism is the same as in the M9 other than the removal of the selector lever for previewing. I don't use it often enough to bemoan its loss personally, and removing it helped keep the price in check, I'm sure. Perhaps it will reappear on a future "P" version.

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by Godfrey

The X100 viewfinder was one of the reasons I didn't like it. So-so optical finder, easily too cluttered, and poor EVF.

You are aware that you can turn pretty much everything off in the x100 ovf leaving the meter and framelines right? The contents of the finder are user adjustable.

[Godfrey]

Originally Posted by gavinlg

You are aware that you can turn pretty much everything off in the x100 ovf leaving the meter and framelines right? The contents of the finder are user adjustable.

Yes, of course I know that.

I just didn't like the way things looked through it. Optically, it lacked the snap and sparkle of the add-on Leitz and Voigtlander Brightline finders I use on the GXR, and was no match for the superb optics of the viewfinders in the CL, M4-2 and M9 bodies either. The rest of the camera didn't appeal to me very much either, it felt too cramped and fiddly, the menus are lousy.

The similarly sized GXR doesn't feel that way, and has a menu layout much more to my liking.