Any news on the new Plustek 120 scanner?

[steveyork]

Originally Posted by I Love Film

The thing is, you'd better go back to school and take some marketing classes. You're turning a good thing into a PR disaster.

Have you ever read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?

For a year, you've been posting on an enthusiast forum about this remarkable new scanner that you've been "working on". You solicit all sorts of advice from your potential customers, and keep lifting your skirt to show them some cheap peeks at the thing.

Now, at Photokina, you only have a non-working model (presumably).

Your excuse is that you "don't have a decent negative to scan", so you can't post samples??

If that doesn't trumpet incompetence, I don't know what does. How can you develop a scanner without scanning negatives??

The excuse that you don't have any photos to scan is SO silly that you seem like a liar. (whether you are or not, I'm not making a judgement on your character, I'm just telling you truthfully how you come across to an observer.)

So you're coming across as evasive, incompetent, and someone who doesn't mind hoodwinking all your potential customers.

Nobody is going to die from lack of a scanner, but you keep teasing, making claims, and you still don't have the goods. No wonder your potential customers are turning on you.

If you want to salvage this PR mess, post an honest reply.

1) The scanner is ready to go to production, or not? Yes or no?

2) Your engineers MUST be scanning something to test the scanner if, in fact, there is actually a working prototype. Post a sample or say you don't have one. If there is a major problem with the scanner that needs a lot more time to fix, say so.

3) Don't keep posting dates and predictions. When and if it is ready, it will be ready. If the sample at Photokina is just a non-working model, say so.

4) If there is no imminent date of delivery, return the money to those who have paid or made deposits.

What you have done so far is a textbook case of alienating your customers. You are not helping your case by making ludicrous statements.

Chill dude. If anyone needs to go back to school, then you do; to learn some manners.

[I Love Film]

I did not attack him personally. If you read carefully, I made a point of not blaming him.

I merely pointed out how he is being perceived by an outside observer.

Look at all the negative posts starting to appear. Do you think I'm wrong?

How is it possible that there are NO negatives available to scan? One staff member is supposed to be a good photographer, but she is too busy to supply a negative???? How can this device be developed without testing with negatives?

At that point, the story becomes absurd.

The excuse that you don't have any photos to scan is SO silly that you seem like a liar. (whether you are or not, I'm not making a judgement on your character, I'm just telling you truthfully how you come across to an observer.)

So you're coming across as evasive, incompetent, and someone who doesn't mind hoodwinking all your potential customers.

Someone needs to learn how to deal with the public, I'm doing him a favor.

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by I Love Film

I did not attack him personally. If you read carefully, I made a point of not blaming him.

I merely pointed out how he is being perceived by an outside observer.

Look at all the negative posts starting to appear. Do you think I'm wrong?

Fair enough. By an outside observer you're being perceived as a little sh*thead with no manners.

[I Love Film]

Originally Posted by Jamie123

Fair enough. By an outside observer you're being perceived as a little sh*thead with no manners.

That's MR. Sh*thead to you.

[fventura]

Originally Posted by Jamie123

Wow. While you raise some valid points, the way you bring them across deserves a hearty 'Go f-ck yourself' from all of us. Mark did not start this thread, he merely offered information to be helpful. We might all like some more information and me might not like the way Plustek is going about the product launch but there is no excuse for attacking Mark as an individual and calling him incompetent and deceitful.
He's not hoodwinking anyone. The scanner is available for pre-order on a number of online stores, not by Plustek. If those stores take pre-orders that's their decision. And nobody is being fooled into ordering this scanner on false pretenses. It's not like there are any fake samples around. If someone's going to order this thing sight unseen with no samples that's their problem. At no point did Mark or Plustek imply that there will be any shortage of devices at launch that would make it necessary to pre-order it.

I don't think he was attacking Mark in any way. But to many, the last few responses from Plustek (Mark) may lead people feeling the way "I love Film" pointed out. He was merely saying how this looks like from the potential customer's perspective.

And no, I can't believe they are developing a scanner like this, and at the point where pre orders are available, there aren't any samples !!

But anyway, I pre ordered one, like you said it's my problem. I think of this whole thing more of a PR snafu and missed opportunities with Photokina than an actual intention to mislead us.

[thegman]

I'm sure Mark knows this, but on the internet, the most vocal are always the aggressive minority, but that's exactly what they are, the minority. I think most of us accept that product development does not always go exactly to plan, and are happy to wait for the right product, than get a rushed out the door half-finished product.

[I Love Film]

I hope you get one. When the thing appears, I might be interested too.

Meanwhile, My Minolta 5400 II is perfect for all my 35mm scanning needs. The build is a little flimsy, but there is nothing better unless you go to very expensive commercial machines.

Originally Posted by fventura

I don't think he was attacking Mark in any way. But to many, the last few responses from Plustek (Mark) may lead people feeling the way Jamie pointed out. He was merely saying how this looks like from the potential customer's perspective.

And no, I can't believe they are developing a scanner like this, and at the point where pre orders are available, there aren't any samples !!

But anyway, I pre ordered one, like you said it's my problem. I think of this whole thing more of a PR snafu and missed opportunities with Photokina than an actual intention to mislead us.

[fventura]

Originally Posted by I Love Film

I hope you get one. When the thing appears, I might be interested too.

Meanwhile, My Minolta 5400 II is perfect for all my 35mm scanning needs. The build is a little flimsy, but there is nothing better unless you go to very expensive commercial machines.

Yep, I hope so too ! Because what I have is a V600, and I simply refuse to scan 35mm with it. B&W MF works ok, so that's what I do for now.

I'm crossing the days on my calendar to September 30th...
I do have faith that it will blow the V700/750 out of the water. PLustek 35mm scanners do get decent reviews, and the 120 seems on paper at least, a much better unit on all areas.

In short, I'm very excited and hopeful, however, I'm also prepared to be disappointed if that's the case.

Heck, I did pre-order, I must be optimistic...

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by fventura

I don't think he was attacking Mark in any way. But to many, the last few responses from Plustek (Mark) may lead people feeling the way "I love Film" pointed out. He was merely saying how this looks like from the potential customer's perspective.

And no, I can't believe they are developing a scanner like this, and at the point where pre orders are available, there aren't any samples !!

But anyway, I pre ordered one, like you said it's my problem. I think of this whole thing more of a PR snafu and missed opportunities with Photokina than an actual intention to mislead us.

Like I said, the points he raised are valid but that doesn't warrant directing any insults at Mark.

I completely agree that at this point the lack of samples is getting ridiculous. It's hard to believe (i.e. you'd be a fool to believe) that neither Plustek nor Lasersoft had any decent negs or slides at their disposal at any point during the development process since we're talking about companies whose primary business is film scanners and scanning software.

May I ask why you pre-ordered one instead of just waiting for it to become available for you to order? This is a high priced film scanner, not the newest iPhone so I doubt it will be sold out on day 1.

[MSUSpartan]

It's not like you need new negatives. This is film right?

If the product manager is such a good film photographer I'm sure he has a few negatives lying around somewhere?

[fventura]

Originally Posted by Jamie123

Like I said, the points he raised are valid but that doesn't warrant directing any insults at Mark.

I completely agree that at this point the lack of samples is getting ridiculous. It's hard to believe (i.e. you'd be a fool to believe) that neither Plustek nor Lasersoft had any decent negs or slides at their disposal at any point during the development process since we're talking about companies whose primary business is film scanners and scanning software.

May I ask why you pre-ordered one instead of just waiting for it to become available for you to order? This is a high priced film scanner, not the newest iPhone so I doubt it will be sold out on day 1.

Well,
I pre-ordered a bit on a leap of faith, impulsiveness and the fact that I'll be shooting a lot in October, and I'll have plenty of things to test it with..

*Also, I may add, I never had trouble returning stuff to B&H. (Not my intention to return it, will see)

Good thing I didn't pre order the Pacific Image 120, that turned out to be a dog! (The whole thing about cutting 6x7 into individual frames was BS to me)

[kmallick]

Hope we didn't scare Mark away.

All we want is some honest update and some sample scans so that we can shell out our money. The number of views on this thread show how many avid enthusiasts there are, hoping for a decent film scanner.

[fventura]

Originally Posted by kmallick

Hope we didn't scare Mark away.

All we want is some honest update and some sample scans so that we can shell out our money. The number of views on this thread show how many avid enthusiasts there are, hoping for a decent film scanner.

If anything, I'd say Mark is more frustrated than any of us...

I can see him going to his boss and saying, "WTF, these people are getting very very edgy right now, gimme some damn samples!!"

I don't remember the last time Nikon and Canon had their people in the forums, asking questions about what people wanted on their next camera...

Looking at the pictures of the first prototypes (Plustek 120) and then the final product, it gives me faith, they were at least well intentioned. We shall see.

[steveyork]

People need get a grip. Few will purchase the scanner without seeing samples and knowing the technicals. The manufacturer knows this. I'd rather that they get it right then get it fast. If we're talking about a little delay, so what? This is not a situation where it may not be released after much hype; it's already been announced. It's coming. And Plustek has a pretty good track record with some other scanners.

[jwc57]

There could be more going on than we can be told.

I was contracted to shoot a new electronic device for a company near me. The date kept being pushed back until almost six months went by. I had begun to think that, since I hadn't been paid, they had found someone cheaper and were trying to figure out how to get out of the agreement. It turned out that after they had gotten the first batch, they found out the Chinese company manufacturing the item had changed the design and was using cheaper components. Fortunately, none had gone to the public yet. They had to return the junk ones and fly executives to China to insist the original design be maintained without modification.

[wblynch]

Sounds like the villagers have taken to the pitchforks and torches!

But honestly, how can we know the Plustek 120 will be any better than, or markedly different from, the Reflecta that's already on the market?

I'm waiting to find out.

[gbpost]

I was on the Plustek booth at the Photokina trade fair in Cologne Germany, today. Sorry for my bad English, but English is not my first language.

I have no personal or business relationship with Plustek, Lasersoft or other companies in the photo business except that I am a potential buyer of the Plustek Opticfilm 120 to scan my 10 year to 40 year old slides and negatives.

On the Plustek booth at Photokina there is one Opticfilm 120 on display, the scanner is connected to a Mac computer and a person from Lasersoft showed how the scanner works and showed the scanning process with slides and negatives he had provided. The person seemed to be from the technical, not marketing department of Lasersoft. I discussed with this person several aspects of the scanner and the software, which I write down in the following from my memory. Please take this information with a grain of salt, because I have no idea, how reliable this information is, if it is the truth or only marketing bla bla.

In the discussion about the scanner the person from Lasersoft told me, that the drivers for the scanner are not finalized yet. That is the reason, why there are currently no scans published. Lasersoft has received several batches of scanners from Plustek in the past and had to adjust the drivers to every batch.

Currently the driver for Windows is close to finalizing, two items shall be missing. He didn’t mention, which are missing. The driver for Mac is way behind, but the algorithms are already available from the windows version, so it is only re-programming the algorithms for the Mac. I asked how long it will take to finalize the drivers and he responded with something between two weeks and two months.

A scan of a 6 cm x 9 cm slide in maximum resolution of 5300 dpi takes about half an hour, depending on the driver, but that may change with the driver programming too, depending on the settings in the program like infrared based dust reduction, the amount of memory in the connected computer, the moon phase and so on.

I asked for comparison to Hasselblad Flextight and Nikon Coolscan 8000 / 9000. The person said, that the Flextight is a better league. The resolution of the Opticfilm 120 shall be higher compared to the Coolscans, but the Coolscans shall be faster in return. The Coolscan shall have focus adjustment, the Opticfilm 120 has not. The lens of the Coolscan shall be corrected to visible light and for infrared light in order to have a sharp infrared image for dust removal. The lens of the Opticfilm 120 is not specially corrected for infrared light, which makes the infrared image more blurry and more difficult to detect dust spots on the slide or negative.

The scanner looks as shiny as on the pictures, the slide and negative holders are quite sturdy, but made of plastic. There is no holder for framed medium format slides in frames of 7 cm x 7 cm. The person said that many visitors wanted a glass holder, and he will report this to the product manager of Plustek.

The scanner has at least two stepper motors, one to import the holders into the machine and a second one for the scanning process. I could see how in preview the picture was displayed on the computer display during the scanning process. It seemed to be no fake. During my visit of about half an hour the software crashed once, so that the scanner had to be switched off and on again. I did not check the high resolution quality of the images, as the current Mac driver did not contain the essential algorithms yet.

My impression is that both Lasersoft and Plustek are still working on the product and that it might take a while until you and I might be able to scan slides and negatives and we all have to be patient.

Best regards,

Guido

[Matus]

Guido, thank you very much for your summary (and welcome to the RFF ! ). From all what I have read above the scanning speed sounds really on the low side (even though I would NOT scan my 120 films @ 5300 api ). I am somewhat concerned about the dust removal and focusing as the DOF is probably very small. The film holder will have to be VRY good in keeping the film flat and always in the same position with the fixed focus. (Just a side note - Coolscan 9000 does rather poor job in keeping the 120 film flat.)

The scanning speed may in particular be an issue for labs who may see this scanner as a replacement for their aging Nikons. So I hope that improvements will come.

[steveyork]

Thanks Guido. That clears up a lot.

[Pete B]

I was going to ask if Plustek are on the phone trying to get through to Silverfast Customer Services because the driver's don't work. Welcome to our nightmare . Actually, it sounds like Plustek can share some of the blame due to poor continuity of production. I'm sure everyone will get with the program soon but it does sound like it could be a few months. What we don't want is this sort of carry-on
Pete

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Pete B

I was going to ask if Plustek are on the phone trying to get through to Silverfast Customer Services because the driver's don't work. Welcome to our nightmare . Actually, it sounds like Plustek can share some of the blame due to poor continuity of production. I'm sure everyone will get with the program soon but it does sound like it could be a few months. What we don't want is this sort of carry-on
Pete

One thing I will say about my V700 is it's been absolutely glitch free but I have never varied from the genuine Epson scanning software because I believe it does a very good job. I had a look at silverfart and didn't like the user interface at all and the price didn't impress me much either.

Committed film users really are screaming out for a decent scanner and have been for some time so I'm not surprised that this thread has got a little heated at times. Professional developing and scanning services are become fewer all the time and they're getting more expensive as film shrinks to its usage baseline ... whatever that may be!

As far as I'm concerned after reading the post about the scanner at Photokina Plustek can take all the time they want because the thought of a product with buggy software sends chills through me. I have very little patience for things that don't work as they should so I would rather they get it perfect before they release it to the market.

In the meantime my V700 is working perfectly and has done for around fifteen thousand scans. Aside from pulling it apart occasionally to clean the inside of the glass it's been idiot proof and I can only hope the Plustek is as reliable when we finally get it.

As heated as this thread gets occasionally it's nice to see that film users still have real passion about the future of their medium!

[Keith]

One thing I meant to add is I gather this scanner won't have it's own default sanning software as the Epson does ... it will need the packaged silverfart to run?

[Pete B]

I think we'll need the Silverfast drivers but I know Mark has mentioned he sees Ed Hamrick regularly so it sounds as though Vuescan will support it.
I've used Vuescan and Epson scan with my V700. It's only recently I've tried Silverfast for colour neg with the V700 and I find it gives very good results for certain negatives, and is pretty stress free on windoze at least. This is using a Rollei 35S and Sunny 16:

SF-3.jpg

SF-5.jpg

SF-6.jpg

[DaveO]

I though I saw some where that the 120 model was around $ 1000.

[andrewnelles]

I must be the only one who likes Silverfast. I don't know how you guys use Vuescan.

Can't wait to see some sample scans from this. Might be time to replace me Coolscan 5000.