Nikon: Testing the Waters

[rectangularimage]

Originally Posted by Tom33

....Anyone out there doing MF with an F4? What viewscreen? How is it for ease of getting a sharp focus with a MF lens? Mein gott, the thing weighs nearly 3 lbs. without a lens, but if it works really well....

Tell me your F4 stories, please!

I have an F4 that I manually focus. The focusing screen that comes with it isn't the best for manual focusing. Here's a summary of the various screens it can take. Most people prefer a split prism screen, "K" or "P" for manually focusing. I like the "P".

The F4 is a great camera and I think at this time very underpriced. It's a fairly bulletproof, the only affliction I hear about is LCD bleed in the viewfinder readout, but even with that problem it's still completely usable. Being Nikon's first real autofocus SLR it's slower than subsequent Nikon's AF but it is accurate. I recommend the more compact F4 as opposed to the F4s.

One thing I like is that it's got every feature imaginable in 1988 and they're all accessible via physical knobs and buttons (not menus and LCD selections), kind of the last of this type of user interface.

It's a very different animal from the previous Nikons, being rounded, completely battery dependent, and covered with more knobs and buttons than it's predecessors, but I like it. With a split prism screen it makes a great manual focus camera. Oh, and the matrix metering is really quite good.

...Mike

[oneANT]

Bit surprised the F100 seems to have skipped the discussion. Its identical in ergonomics and controls to the D700. I can go from one to the other without thinking. They are IDENTICAL and its a better viewfinder than the F4 for manual focus and is the F5 but without the grip.

Maybe you use them differently but the F3 has a lot of quirks that can make it a PITA for applications where you have to think on the run in fast changing scenes. Everything is locked down with a button and the Exp+/- requires you to break your fingers to use. The meter and shutter speed indicator is impossible to see in bright or dark and the backlight button is such an exercise in frustration that you couldn't care less if it didn't work anymore which they eventually do (or not do). The lack of a good deep grip makes hand holding tiring and I dont know if anyone can guess but I dont like the F3 at all but they can also tell you that its obvious I must have used one(grin).

The F4 is nice but the F100 is the shortest path if the desirable outcome is ease of use for a photograph as opposed to the challenge of using a camera to get a photograph.

[Maiku]

I will chime in. You really want to test the glass, so why not buy an inexpensive FG, FE or FM to get a feel of the glass. The real interest lies in using the glass on a Nikon D800E.

[Tom33]

Originally Posted by photomoof

Only a D700 or later will give you the feel of a D800e. Film cameras other than the F6 are not going to even handle vaguely like a D800, and frankly ditto with other DSLR's from Nikon. The D700/800 is a major departure from past designs (I will leave it to you to go to a dealer and look at the camera), and read the reviews.

You really only have one choice, rent a body, and try a lot of rental lenses.

You will learn nothing from a camera like the FE.

Valuable information. I had not realized operating the D700/D800 to be that different from prior Nikon iterations. I was considering renting one or the other for a weekend trial. As the weather in Texas moderates days spent outside with a camera return to feasibility.

[Tom33]

Originally Posted by Maiku

I will chime in. You really want to test the glass, so why not buy an inexpensive FG, FE or FM to get a feel of the glass. The real interest lies in using the glass on a Nikon D800E.

Just so.... I am looking at acquiring an FM3a for exactly that "feel of the glass." By all accounts it is also a wonderful little camera I would probably use a great deal. For me, this piece of developing affinity for a system requires more time spent with it than the weekend trial I want to do with a D800. I can rule out whether I want a system long term in just a weekend, I can maybe decide if I want to use that system long term.

Understanding how a lens will render the image takes longer experience for me.

Thanks all!

Tom

[Harryo1962]

I have both an F3 HP and a F4. Both are great. But really HEAVY. When choosing what camera to take when heading out the door, these often get left behind for that reason.

[Tom33]

Originally Posted by Harryo1962

I have both an F3 HP and a F4. Both are great. But really HEAVY. When choosing what camera to take when heading out the door, these often get left behind for that reason.

The weight issue is real for me, it is why I am leaning to buying the FM3a.

I know this from carrying the Maxxum 9 with vertical grip and 85mm lens mounted.

I am just not the pack mule I used to be.

[photomoof]

Originally Posted by Tom33

Valuable information. I had not realized operating the D700/D800 to be that different from prior Nikon iterations. I was considering renting one or the other for a weekend trial. As the weather in Texas moderates days spent outside with a camera return to feasibility.

Well as others have noted Nikon has a similarity of control placement, I have owned literally almost every Nikon from the M through the D100 mentioned (never owned an FE or FM) and there is definitely a "Nikon way" of doing things.

As for the weight, I am not a good judge of that issue, since I never carry a camera around, but only work specifically.

[Tom33]

I found an FM3a that should be nice, and it is on the way to my house in a big brown step-van:



Now looking for a nice piece of glass... I think 85mm Nikkor.

What is the main difference between the AI and the AIS lenses?

Cheers,

Tom

[ChipMcD]

I only know the F3HP from your short list. I bought mine used in about 1988 or 1989 in very good condition. I have used it moderately since then, have used various screens and lots of different lenses and have been well pleased. I've had no problems with the LCD fading and all systems are still go. I've also had no light leaks, etc. A very tough machine.

I also have an F5, which is a very different beast, and I do mean beast. I think you could drive nails with it all day long and still have it function. I haven't used the F6, but I can't imagine that it is much better than the F5.

You won't go too far wrong with Nikons. My first was an 8008, now worth about $30 bucks and still going strong after being used a LOT.

[Contarama]

There are a few 85's. The non Ai 85/1.8 was a renowned fashion lens in the 60's. There never was an Ai version of the 85/1.8 made. They went to 85/2. There is also the 85/1.4 Ais which is a monster. It will weigh down your FM bigtime. I recently saw a very nice 85/1.8 K factory converted go for little money which was weird because most of them bring circa 300-400 bucks. The 85/2's are plentiful and smaller and better priced and supposedly real good too.

If you don't own them yet I would get a 105/2.5 K or newer and a 28/2.8 Ais. 50/1.8 Nikkor is interesting too. There is a short barrel version that would fit your FM very nicely.

[Tom33]

Originally Posted by Contarama

...There is also the 85/1.4 Ais which is a monster. It will weigh down your FM bigtime...

If you don't own them yet I would get a 105/2.5 K or newer and a 28/2.8 Ais. 50/1.8 Nikkor is interesting too. There is a short barrel version that would fit your FM very nicely.

I saw the size of the 85/1.4, but the price was really good for that lens so it is on the way. I just have to try an 85mm lens that fast! If I don't like it I will not lose flipping it, the price was really good.

Also have a 50/1.8 shorty on the way for street shots and just general carry It looks almost the same as the black version of the 45mm pancake lens that came out with the FM3a.



I want a 105 and a 24, but I am taking a GAS break for a couple of weeks.

Really.

I promised her...

Cheers,

Tom

[Godfrey]

Over the many years between 1969 and 2001, I owned and worked with Nikon F, F2, F3/T, FM, FM2n, and FE2 bodies. The ones that stayed with me the longest were the FMs — very tough, reliable, solid cameras (particularly the late series FM2n made after 1991, I believe it was, when they did a quiet under the skin update and refinement of the whole camera). The F3, of course, was an anvil from the get go.

I thought the FM3a would be very nice, but acquired my FE2 back at a late date and discovered I really did prefer the FM2n's metering readout and overall simplicity. I ended up selling off the FE2 and keeping the FMs until I sold out of all my Nikon film gear at the end of 2001.

I loved the F/F2/F3 100% coverage viewfinder, but at the end of the day, never found it really mattered all that much in my general use. The F3's major add value was the HP finder (which suits my eyeglasses better than the FM2n) and the tighter metering system (all the other Nikon center weighted averaging meters were 60/40 split to the center circle, the F3 was 85/15 and allowed more precision in targeting the specific thing you want to use as a metering reference. The magnifying finder was also a delight when I needed to use it on a copystand. The downside to the F3 was its additional bulk, slower flash sync, and the size/weight of the MD-4 motor.

Never got into the AF Nikons, or the F4/F5/F6. Too bulky, don't really like AF, etc. Once digital was on the rise, I didn't like the Nikon bodies much until the D200-D300 came out, and now the D700 seems a peach. Haven't really looked at the D800 yet. But I've only used them a little, never owned one.

Over the past year, I've somehow accreted a few Nikon film bits again. An F (both plain prism and FTn meter heads, black body), a few lenses (50/1.2, 55 Micro, 85/1.8, 105 Micro, 200 Micro). All good kit, but I wonder if and when I'll ever really use them; I'm much more likely to carry a Leica film body than an SLR film camera nowadays. I should probably sell them off and clear out the closet.

Sorry for rambling.

[Contarama]

Tom you are going to fall in love with that snub nosed 50 on the FM I bet. The ultimate Nikon walk around rig.

[farlymac]

With the Ai (Automatic Indexing) lenses, one no longer had to do the Nikon Twist when mounting the lens to an Ai camera. This was accomplished with a small ramp built onto the back of the lens body, so when you look at the rear or side of an Ai lens, you can tell right away. The other sign of an Ai lens are the two holes in the meter latch-up prong, whereas the non-Ai has no holes in the prong.

On an AiS lens, a slot was added to the rear of the mount to allow for the camera body to read the focal length of the lens for Program, and Shutter Priority metering. On most of the AiS lenses, the metering prong was deleted.

PF

[Robert Lai]

AI lenses from a user's perspective have a longer focus throw. The AIS lenses require less angular rotation to go from minimum focus to infinity. The AIS lenses have a notch on the mount to tell the Nikon FA camera and the like to use a high speed program setting for long focal length lenses. That's about the only difference between them.

Both AI and AIS lenses have the prong for meter coupling with the older Nikon F, F2 Photomic meter heads, as well as for most Nikkormats. The prong is vented in the AI/AIS models compared to their non-AI counterparts. The vents allow illumination of the Aperture Direct Readout scale (ADR), which allows you to read the working lens aperture in the viewfinder. The scale is on the aperture ring of the lens, and a system of prisms directs your view of the secondary aperture scale in the viewfinder. AF lenses lack the prong, but Nikon technicians can easily install them on the AF lenses that have an aperture ring (i.e. NOT G lenses). Later F2 meter heads (DP-11, DP-12), and later Nikon cameras use Automatic Indexing (AI) which is by a ring around the lens mount with a "finger" that projects onto a ridge which is milled on the back of the aperture ring. This tells the meter what aperture is set on the lens - to allow metering at full aperture, for maximal brightness while focusing.

[Tom33]

Thank you both for the comprehensive explanation of Non-AI vs. AI vs. AIS lenses! I think I get it now!!! I still don't have camera or lenses in hand, perhaps the 85/1.4 will arrive today as I see from the tracking info it has reached the post office in my city. UPS is still moving the FM3a across the world though. So, I am just waiting for the mail on Saturday morning...

Cheers!

Tom

[Tom33]

The 85/1.4 arrived! It is a beauty... a very large beauty. I think this is going to be good, I cannot wait for the FM3a to get here as I don't have another Nikon camera with which to use this lens. So I wait for Big Brown and Monday or Tuesday to get here.

Patiently - NOT!

[Tom33]

Originally Posted by Vsanzbajo on APUG:

"Anyone heard of this problem with the FM3A?
"Nikon supposedly admitted (and I confirmed with my lens and camera) that for lenses with F/1.4 aperture the metering does not work properly. When opening the lens from f2 to f1.4, the metering needle advances by 1/3 or 2/3 f-stop. The workaround is to manually overexpose by 1/3 to 2/3 f-stops when using this aperture.
I did an experiment in the Aperture priority mode and found that the problem actually does not exist in this mode."
Thanks"

I posted there also, but wanted to ask here as well.

Sorry to drag up this old thread. I expect delivery of an FM3A soon, and have been idly reading on-line info. I came across this quote, but I never saw the question answered. Since I expect to use 85/f1.4 and 50/f1.4 lenses on the camera, I am quite interested in the answer.

Does anyone know or have you ever heard this elsewhere?

Cheers!

Tom

[Tom33]

The FM3A and the 50/f1.8 were both delivered today. Loaded a roll of Fuji 400 Walmart film for the test and started making pictures. First impression is very positive, the little FM3A is in like new condition. It was originally purchased in 2004 in Japan, I am the second owner. The little 50mm lens seems to be very nice and works well, especially at the $40 purchase price. And the 85/f1.4, while it is oversized relative to the FM, is pure badass glass.

I think I may like this camera.

Any of you tried the CV F mount lenses Cameraquest is selling?

Cheers!

Tom

[daveleo]

Good luck with that setup !
I have the FM3A (chrome) and pancake 45mm, and (until I sold my soul to the digital devil ) that was THE walk around and travel gear for me..

And . . . if I didn't already own two 50mm lenses and the 45mm, I'd buy a pancake 50mm.

Have fun ! !

[kshapero]

Originally Posted by Tom33

The FM3A and the 50/f1.8 were both delivered today. Loaded a roll of Fuji 400 Walmart film for the test and started making pictures. First impression is very positive, the little FM3A is in like new condition. It was originally purchased in 2004 in Japan, I am the second owner. The little 50mm lens seems to be very nice and works well, especially at the $40 purchase price. And the 85/f1.4, while it is oversized relative to the FM, is pure badass glass.

I think I may like this camera.

Any of you tried the CV F mount lenses Cameraquest is selling?

Cheers!

Tom

I have the CV 20, 40 and 58 lenses. In the words of the great late Pete Smith, "These are the sharpest lenses I have ever seen."

[pphuang]

I, too, have the CV 40/2 in F mount sitting on an FM3A. It is a beautiful lens - if you get it, you will likely stop using the 50/1.8

[farlymac]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

Its actually the opposite. The metering prong is on most AI-S lenses including the current production lenses (except the PC lenses), but not included on a few such as the 45mm f2.8 Ai-P.

The current manual focus lens lineup is here:

http://www.nikon-image.com/products/lens/mf/

Yeah, I should have said "some". Was probably thinking of all the third party lenses out there without the prong.

PF

[Tom33]

Originally Posted by kshapero

I have the CV 20, 40 and 58 lenses. In the words of the great late Pete Smith, "These are the sharpest lenses I have ever seen."

Hi Akiva,

With respect to the 58mm/f1.4 specifically, how did you find the ergonomics of the lens? By that I mean weight hanging on the front of an FM3A, ease of focusing, etc. Sharpness of image is very important to me, but the othr stuff counts too, I guess. Have you used the Nikkor 50/1.4 also? How would you say the lenses stack up against each other? I'm looking at acquiring one or the other...

Many thanks,

Tom