Advice on Italy trip needed

[dct]

Krosya, I will not repeat many of the good tourist and photo advice you got already here. Will be in Italy for a short trip too, but more to the north (Trento). It is the same city layout there, with few big squares and almost very tight alleys. My 28mm will be again my standard lens for this visit.
Wish you a interesting trip and I'm curious about the story you will tell us.

[jonmanjiro]

Be sure to check the prices of items on a menu before ordering at restaurants and cafes etc., and do the math so you know how much you're up for when paying. The chances of getting overcharged are very high. Of the 40 or so countries I have traveled in, Italy was by far and away the worst with regard to bill padding. We got so sick of it while in Rome that we bought food at a local supermarket and cooked meals each night at the apartment we were staying at which thankfully had a small kitchen.

There was a big story in Japan not long after we were in Rome about a Japanese couple who had similar problems. They were charged 700 Euro for a meal at a restaurant in Rome. The bill included a 207 Euro pasta dish and a 115 Euro service charge. It became such a big deal here in Japan that the Italian government apologised to the couple and offered them a free trip back to Italy. The couple turned the offer down.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...0803-e6ha.html

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

Be sure to check the prices of items on a menu before ordering at restaurants and cafes etc., and do the math so you know how much you're up for when paying. The chances of getting overcharged are very high. Of the 40 or so countries I have traveled in, Italy was by far and away the worst with regard to bill padding. We got so sick of it while in Rome that we bought food at a local supermarket and cooked meals each night at the apartment we were staying at which thankfully had a small kitchen.

There was a big story in Japan not long after we were in Rome about a Japanese couple who had similar problems. They were charged 700 Euro for a meal at a restaurant in Rome. The bill included a 207 Euro pasta dish and a 115 Euro service charge. It became such a big deal here in Japan that the Italian government apologised to the couple and offered them a free trip back to Italy. The couple turned the offer down.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...0803-e6ha.html

Well in my (limited, maybe) experience the trick is not to behave like dumb and rich tourists. This is to be put in practice wherever you'd be. But at "Otello alla Concordia" we were seating near two very rich looking Japanese women wearing watches which would cost me six months of my monthly salary and believe it or not, they got charged what was written on the menu prices, and what applied to us too. Unbelievable but true, uh ? And this, in spite they kept being very nitpicking with the waiters and what was in their plates all dinner long...

I once had evening dinner in a restaurant which was a tad smarter than some others but the final billing price was still on par with something normal. The restaurant's name is "Il Baccaro" and it's located Via degli Spagnoli so I am playing it safe here. And I recommend this place with no problem.

Nolens volens, Italy still has this reputation about overcharging and ripping off but this is nothing but a cliché IMO. Italian people are just... normal.

Not all people living in the center of Rome are rich, if you go and explore Trastevere (one of the nicest areas, btw the most beautiful overview of Rome might be between Trastevere and the Vatican, from the Gianicolo's balcony, it's more panoramic than from the Pincio, the terrace located north over the Spanish Steps) you will even notice that most of them are modest.

And the place I've experienced the highest restaurant billings so far is CANADA, where the food isn't the best you can find ever !

Anyway - a good guidebook advising for food places where local people use to stop by is mandatory, of course. But, if you are a good observer enough, you'll find them.

Last tip : you can't go wrong at the "Hostaria Antica" located Via dei Uffici del Vicario. An old restaurant of some repute, and nobody will rip you off there.

And don't forget the GROM gelati, which were recently awarded as the best gelati in the world (which they deserve actually !).

Buon viaggio e belle fotografie !

[Michiel Fokkema]

I found the food in Rome rather cheap and of very good quality. BUt we don;t eeat in posh restaurants. More the small family run pizzeria's and students restaurants. Good enough for us and as said if well chosen good food for very reasonable prices. I have not noticed any bill padding. But of course one should know what the price is before ordering anything. Isn't that common sense. You wouldn't order a camera without knowing what you have to pay?

[Krosya]

And again - thank you , everyone, for your advice and tips. Reading some of the posts - I think another question is in order - What to Avoid? What not to Do?
I have heard about some overcharging in the restaurants and about the pickpockets in Italy. So, maybe things/places to be careful with/at?
Also, this may be a naive question, but what about payments? I mean - is using a Credit Card common/safe? Are CCs accepted in most of those smaller places/restaurants? Or should I have cash everywhere? How easy is it to exchange US dollars or should I use ATMs to get cash out as I go ? - These questions are not just for Rome, but other places as well. Thanks in advance for your answers.

[yinyangbt]

You had very good advices here . You have to know that tripods are not allowed in the great monuments (San Pietro ,etc) so you have to be able to shoot with some fast lenses .The light in San Pietro is somehow better than Firenze Dome . You'll need probably 800 ISO + fast (or wide - 21-24mm or wider)
If you go in Tuscany , at Firenze , you MUST stop in Siena . Take some good travel guides at least two and check them carefully
In Rome I recommed The Campidoglio, Piazza Navona , The Pantheon , The Santa Maria Maggiore , The Forum , of course the Vatican and san Pietro, Piazza del Popolo
I suggest to see very well one pace and don't waste the time traveling very much . Just wandering in Rome should be wonderful . I'd skip Venice and Naples and leave them for the next time.

[marcr1230]

re credit cards - they are accepted everywhere you would expect.
find out if yours charges a fee per foreign transaction - this can make it more expensive
ask your bank if they have a reciprocal ATM arrangement to avoid fees taking out cash.
most major banks in the US have partners in Italy.
Capitol One credit cards have no extra fees on foreign transactions and the exchange rates they use are bank rates - very reasonable.

enjoy yhe trip

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by Krosya

And again - thank you , everyone, for your advice and tips. Reading some of the posts - I think another question is in order - What to Avoid? What not to Do?
I have heard about some overcharging in the restaurants and about the pickpockets in Italy. So, maybe things/places to be careful with/at?
Also, this may be a naive question, but what about payments? I mean - is using a Credit Card common/safe? Are CCs accepted in most of those smaller places/restaurants? Or should I have cash everywhere? How easy is it to exchange US dollars or should I use ATMs to get cash out as I go ? - These questions are not just for Rome, but other places as well. Thanks in advance for your answers.

What to do ?

Do use your CC wherever you want to, keep the least cash on you. CCs are accepted everywhere.
Of course you don't want to use your CC to buy a €3.50 panini.
Common sense matter.

What not to do ?

Climbing into an extremely overcrowded subway car or getting overcrowed somewhere in a queue or in a museum. This is where the main pickpocketting risk is. Other than that, no particular pickpocketting risk.

Italy ain't Syria or Pakistan.

[silent1]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

And don't forget the GROM gelati, which were recently awarded as the best gelati in the world (which they deserve actually !).

Buon viaggio e belle fotografie !

I live in Rome and we are very passionate about what is the best "gelateria" in town. You will find a long line outside GROM, but it is common opinion among the locals that GROM is just average.
My personal favourite is Rivareno, close to San Giovanni.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by Highway 61

Well in my (limited, maybe) experience the trick is not to behave like dumb and rich tourists.

It's amazing how many tourists do look dumb and rich, or just dumb
I was stunned while in Paris in July. Tourists with wallets hanging out of their back pockets, back packs hanging off their backs left wide open. An open invite to a pickpocket. Here I am! Come and get me

Originally Posted by Highway 61

Italy still has this reputation about overcharging and ripping off but this is nothing but a cliché IMO. Italian people are just... normal.

We certainly had a different experience, Nicolas. IMO the reputation is real and deserved. It probably helps that you look like a local. I traveled in Italy with my partner, and the locals probably thought she was Japanese (she's Chinese) as we talk to each other in Japanese. Clearly tourists. Mistaken for easy targets maybe (we're not ). We have a fair bit of travel experience and took the normal measures, but still had to question mysterious extra charges about half the time when eating at restaurants there. After a week in Sicily it was already old, so we didn't bother dealing with it in Rome. I've had problems in other countries too, but Italy took the cake for the frequency and brazenness of their bill padding. The clear world champions IMO

Originally Posted by Michiel Fokkema

I have not noticed any bill padding. But of course one should know what the price is before ordering anything. Isn't that common sense. You wouldn't order a camera without knowing what you have to pay?

Common sense, you'd think. But its amazing how many people don't follow their common sense.

Restaurants and taxis. Always gotta be careful with restaurants and taxis.

[silent1]

Originally Posted by Krosya

And again - thank you , everyone, for your advice and tips. Reading some of the posts - I think another question is in order - What to Avoid? What not to Do?
I have heard about some overcharging in the restaurants and about the pickpockets in Italy. So, maybe things/places to be careful with/at?
Also, this may be a naive question, but what about payments? I mean - is using a Credit Card common/safe? Are CCs accepted in most of those smaller places/restaurants? Or should I have cash everywhere? How easy is it to exchange US dollars or should I use ATMs to get cash out as I go ? - These questions are not just for Rome, but other places as well. Thanks in advance for your answers.

CC are widely accepted, but expect some grunts if you try to pay a 1 euro coffee (that's how we call an espresso in Italy: just coffee, or "caffé" in Italian) with a CC.
Depending on your CC/debit card conditions, it might be cheaper to withdraw money from an ATM, because it's your bank or CC company that fixes the exchange rate.
As for overcharge, I've never had any bad experience, but then again I'm a local so YMMV. Just check your bill with respect to the menu card if in doubt, and don't be afraid to ask the waiter/owner for clarifications. If the restaurant applies a "servizio" or "coperto", that must be clearly stated in the menu, and usually should be less than 2 euros per person. If a restaurant charges a "coperto", I usually don't leave any tip. Otherwise it is common habit to leave 1-2 euro as a tip, depending on your satisfaction level.
I also heard about that Japanese couple horror story and luckily that restaurant was shut down after that episode.

I can't give you any advice on what not to do, because that really depends on your interests and on how much time you've got.

Well, for any other questions just PM me, I'll be glad to help

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

I traveled in Italy with my partner, and the locals probably thought she was Japanese (she's Chinese) as we talk to each other in Japanese.

Just marry an Italian beauty before your next trip and everything will run tutto bene.

[Krosya]

Well, whenever I travel, I like to do typical tourist stuff for a couple of days and then I try to blend in with the locals - go to places where there are less/no tourists, try to get a taste for a Real local culture, cousine, atmosphere. I will have a Birthday wile there and would like to go to a nice/more expensive place for a dinner, but I'm looking for some good and tasty food, good wine and very good service over the "disigner" plated food, where it may look pretty but you dont get much yet pay a lot. Hope this makes sence.
I would like to possibly meet some forum members if possible - I have done this on my trips to Germany and Scotland and it was fun. Though back than I was single and now I'll be travling with my wife (not Italian beauty, but Romanian one - close enough? ), so not sure how/if that would work out.
Anyway - great advice from everyone and pls keep them coming. We'll be in Italy for about 3 weeks so I hope to have time to see many things and try many dishes/wines.

[mfogiel]

"Will be in Rome, plan to visit Vatican, Venice, Florence, maybe Naples"
It is as if you said that you will see the whole of North and South America plus Africa and Australia...
Italy has 60% of the world's art treasures, not to mention picturesque landscape and architecture.
My advice:
2 bodies, one with a 50 and the other with a 25/28 lens, 50 rolls of film, off you go...

[daveleo]

Originally Posted by mfogiel

"Will be in Rome, plan to visit Vatican, Venice, Florence, maybe Naples"
It is as if you said that you will see the whole of North and South America plus Africa and Australia...
Italy has 60% of the world's art treasures, not to mention picturesque landscape and architecture.
My advice:
2 bodies, one with a 50 and the other with a 25/28 lens, 50 rolls of film, off you go...

In 2009, my son and I went for the first time. We just got off the train in Venice (our first stop), he went into a cathedral while I hopped into the men's room. I came out, he had just exited the cathedral. "You didn't bring enough film" was the first thing he said.

[emilsand]

The best thing about my last visit to Rome was leaving for Terracina after three days.

As for gear, bring only what you are able to carry in one hand.

[raid]

I am planning to visit Italy again in 2013. My family loved it there last summer. Enjoy the culture and the people first, I woud say, and then take photos. I met up for one day with Robert Blu and his wife, and my family had a great time on that day exploring towns at Lake Como. Credit card transactions give the best exchange rates. I ave also used AAA traveler checks in EURO, and these are safer than cash, and any bank will give you the full EURO amount without any fees. Keep the numbers of the traveler checks safe so that you can get a quick replacement if lost.

If you rent a car, get it insured. Rent a small car. This is very important. Streets can be very narrow. Rome is not meant for driving, but if your plans favor car over train rides, then a rental car is useful.


I would give your passport information to the State Department (if a US citizen) so that you can get a quick repacement if you lose your passport during the trip. The program is called SmartTravel, or similar.

Meet people over there. This is what traveling is about.

[Spanik]

try to get a taste for a Real local culture, cousine, atmosphere

Maybe something you better don't try in Italy...

[Richard G]

Fortunately French. As Tolstoy has it: "Cousinage - dangereux voisinage." Cousinhood, a dangerous neighborhood. Yet the foundation of many successful alliances, including in Italy.

[sparrow6224]

I was in Rome for several weeks in 1984. I loved it so much I knew I would return as soon as possible. Three children, a career, life changes, a fourth child (all boys, ages now 24, 23, 20, aaaand.... 3-1/2). I haven't yet been back. This thread has had me near tears, remembering... and sent me to peer closely at the framed map of the city on the wall over my desk. [By the way, Emilsand: it takes three days just to get marginally used to the place. No one likes it in the first three days there.] I have one piece of turistic advice to add: visit the Aventino hill, and find on it three old churches, each gorgeous in a simple, small way; and the monastery door with the giant keyhole through which you can see St. Peter's framed in the distance; and a small beautiful park full of orange trees called the Orangerie. Gorgeous views of the city from there. As for Florence: After thirty years I'm sad to hear you have to have reservations to get into the Uffizi and the Accademia. In Florence, DO NOT MISS the Masaccio freschi, most importantly those of the Brancaci Chapel in Santa Maria della Croce church. These are some of the greatest works of art of the Italian renaissance. This too I've heard you need reservations for. Get 'em. Do not miss. Really. On the cameras, I'd bring my cheaper back up digital, a Nikon D70 with two light teles, 18-55 and 55-200. I'd not use it much. I'd bring my Leica CL with a 21, 40, and 75. I'd probably pack but not carry a Nikon FE with AIS 28, 50, and 105 as back up if the CL broke. Or i'd switch off, one day one, one day the other. My GF would carry the D70. There, all settled. I have forty or more rolls of my beloved Neopan 1600 in the freezer waiting for this trip. (Shot at 800; filter during the day). I'd better get back to work.

[emilsand]

Originally Posted by sparrow6224

I was in Rome for several weeks in 1984. I loved it so much I knew I would return as soon as possible. Three children, a career, life changes, a fourth child (all boys, ages now 24, 23, 20, aaaand.... 3-1/2). I haven't yet been back. This thread has had me near tears, remembering... and sent me to peer closely at the framed map of the city on the wall over my desk. [By the way, Emilsand: it takes three days just to get marginally used to the place. No one likes it in the first three days there.]

You might want to go back after 28 years, to see how it is now. Four words: "EU, freedom of movement".

I've been to Rome several times, and everyone should go. This time though, I had nothing but bad experiences with serivice, food, hustlers and traffic.

I will always love Italy, I simply don't like Rome. Pantheon is nice, though.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by emilsand

I will always love Italy, I simply don't like Rome. Pantheon is nice, though.

Rome is a large city with unsufficient traffic and public transportations equipments, and the city isn't large enough to swallow the huge mass tourists crowds which are overwhelming it (I found the Roman situation very comparable with what Prague one is at some times of the year - but for public transportations networks which are truly excellent in Prague).

Hence some infamous problems : cars everywhere, scooters everywhere - and the old typical Vespas have almost disappeared, the streets are filled with modern large Japanese ones nowadays... - crowd everywhere, noise, stress, atmospherical pollution (after having walked all day long your noise really hits, no legend). Where I live I use to leave my car at home all week long and make all my daily commuting trips riding my bike, this would be just not possible in Rome because daily cycling there just exposes yourself to death pericoloso at any minute.

But any smart person should be able to leave that aside and focus on the marvels the city has to offer to any sensitive and curious soul, which goes widely beyond the Pantheon and the monuments, and mostly resides in its spirit and people. And it is still possible to enjoy the city without being a dumb tourist sheep.

For instance I once photographed a mother and son playing in their quiet building yard with their cat, and close to them there was a fountain built with some antic columns remnants. This is what I was looking for in Rome, and I found it very often, because I did something else than visiting monuments (which of course has to be done, no question here) or focusing onto the bad points of the place - which do exist too, no question either.

[jtm6]

I lived in Rome for a summer and it changed almost everything about my approach to photography. Perhaps it was because I could concentrate on getting 10,000 images out of my system. I took two DSLR camera bodies, a few lenses, and a ton of other gear. However, I only took one camera and lens every day, and even that felt like too much. I'm glad I had some backup gear back at the apartment but I never needed it. It would have been nice to have two RF bodies and small lenses, though.

As for the culture, one thing I'd recommend is to advise any girls/women (at least from the USA) to NOT smile at strangers. The cultural meaning and etiquette is different. A few women with us smiled out of habit and found themselves in some unpleasant situations.

[Highway 61]

Originally Posted by jtm6

As for the culture, one thing I'd recommend is to advise any girls/women (at least from the USA) to NOT smile at strangers. The cultural meaning and etiquette is different. A few women with us smiled out of habit and found themselves in some unpleasant situations.

This might be true in some marginal cases, but don't you think this is another cliché about Italy and Italians ?
Most of the "strangers" you will meet in Rome might still be well-educated people. At least did I meet many. And I didn't notice anything close to what you describe in their manners.

OTOH I sometimes met girls/women coming from the USA who weren't smiling at all, and were borderline unpolite. Wherever the place was.

Once on Piazza Navona I myself smiled to a stranger who was a woman coming from ITALY and she sent a warm smile back to me !

[Krosya]

One more question I came up with - what about US issued Credit Cards? I hear that in Europe CCs are with chip/PIN and some people had problems using Credit Cards issued in USA. Any feedback on this for Rome/Italy?
Thanks again, everyone!