If I were a Chinese manufacturer, I would build this

[zuiko85]

Back from the walk.
A ray sunshine you say?
Well I'm 63 and can dream up what I'd like with the best of them, been dreaming up cameras for years. But I've never seen even one that was close to my musing's built. So I've settled with what is available. To tell the truth not one digital camera today excites me. I still get a warm and familiar feeling handling my old OM and Pen F cameras but my modest DSLR is just an appliance, a black plastic blob engendering no different feeling than my toaster or coffee maker. Personally I would love a to have the option of a digital back to clip to my OM-1. Actually I want a choice of two backs, one with a bayer array for color and a luminance only back for B&W (see, I told you I can dream). I do however think digital backs for classic 35mm film SLR's would be cheaper to develop than new full system cameras.

[Archlich]

They have capacities to produce digital cameras in China, yes, because the threshold has became so low that anyone could do it, like the way they make $50 Nokia copies.

But "high grade" digital cameras - what's "high grade", a full frame sensor? I'd like to see where's that came from. During the past decade the only mentioning of a Chinese DSLR in the cyberspace is a wide spread image of Aigo camera, which turned out to be a cheaply photoshopped Pentax full frame prototype of 2001. None showed up since then, and obviously none is in the making. Otherwise, why $999 full frame cameras haven't been flooding the market yet?

In their last "golden age" of the camera making (late 80s) they had to buy whole production lines from Japan to produce licensed copies of some Konica and Ricoh cameras - can't make any themselves until years were spent reverse engineering the circuits, because anything electronic used to be a bar too high. Nowadays it's a general consensus even among the Chinese photographic community that things go good only as far as adapter rings, soft release copies, half cases and maybe cheap optics. But putting full-frame sensor into a compact body?

Even if the idea is perfectly executable, I'd say you're better off throwing the millions of investment - at least that amount for a good start - into the faces of someone Japanese or even Kaufman himself than the Chinese and their "capable" technology reserve.

[healyzh]

Originally Posted by I Love Film

Not dreaming, perfectly plausible. I'm sure it will be done in the next few years.

Using old lenses is a huge hobby in Asia and elsewhere.

Half of the M9's sold were so people could use 50 year old lenses on them.

Count me in that crowd, one of my favorite lenses on my M9 is a Leica 50mm Summar f/2, it turns 80 in a year or two. On the M9 my growing 50mm collection is 50mm. Of course my new favorite is a Leica 50mm Summicron f/2 (Type 4). Another favorite is the Nikkor-S.c 5cm f/1.4 that is over 60 years old. I love that these old lenses are on a full frame digital rangefinder body. I look for lenses that will have interesting character that you can't find in modern lenses.

Of course it also helps that I love having a camera that functionally is very close to a Nikon FM2 (though more like a FE2). That is the level of automation I want. It doesn't make the mistake of thinking it knows better than I do what I want. Another advantage is that it's small, if anything smaller overall than my beloved FM2.

I've said for several years I would buy a full frame Digital Nikon FM2/FE2 in a heartbeat. I doubt I'll ever see such a camera, but other than the fact the M9 is a Rangefinder it basically is that camera. The fact that my eyesight seems to work even better with a Rangefinder than it does with a split screen is just an added bonus!

[I Love Film]

Agreed, you are one of the people who completely "get it".

I think my camera idea would have extremely healthy sales.

Originally Posted by healyzh

Count me in that crowd, one of my favorite lenses on my M9 is a Leica 50mm Summar f/2, it turns 80 in a year or two. On the M9 my growing 50mm collection is 50mm. Of course my new favorite is a Leica 50mm Summicron f/2 (Type 4). Another favorite is the Nikkor-S.c 5cm f/1.4 that is over 60 years old. I love that these old lenses are on a full frame digital rangefinder body. I look for lenses that will have interesting character that you can't find in modern lenses.

Of course it also helps that I love having a camera that functionally is very close to a Nikon FM2 (though more like a FE2). That is the level of automation I want. It doesn't make the mistake of thinking it knows better than I do what I want. Another advantage is that it's small, if anything smaller overall than my beloved FM2.

I've said for several years I would buy a full frame Digital Nikon FM2/FE2 in a heartbeat. I doubt I'll ever see such a camera, but other than the fact the M9 is a Rangefinder it basically is that camera. The fact that my eyesight seems to work even better with a Rangefinder than it does with a split screen is just an added bonus!

[btgc]

For those waiting for affordable budget FF RF - this summer I bought a part from Chinese seller, purpose of which is to keep lens of Sigma DP1/2 in extended postion to prevent wearing out ribbon cable (weak spot in this models). Part itself is far from being a rocket science (look after EFM + Sigma) though it costs $40 - simply because no one has figured out this trick except one person. People, including me, shell out $40 (sometimes that's 1/2-1/3 fom cost of camera) just because there's no competition.

So be sure digital rangefinder from China wouldn't cost you a chips when they can ask your finger....or two.

[Spanik]

I'd want one. Certainly in M42 mount. But if possible not too much plastic. Like an 70-80's SLR would be perfect. Iso dial, speed dial, threaded release and good viewfinder. No photo display, just something that says how many shots on card and battery status. If you cant luxury: a self timer

[Colin Corneau]

Amazing, no one's thought of that before or attempted it. Only you 'get it'. I guess you know something no one else does, incredibly.

[I Love Film]

Maybe, or maybe not.

Ideas are a dime a dozen.

Someone has to be the first to act on an idea, apparently you like to throw cold water on any speculation.

Like Steve Jobs said, the public doesn't know what it wants until you put it in their hand.

Originally Posted by Colin Corneau

Amazing, no one's thought of that before or attempted it. Only you 'get it'. I guess you know something no one else does, incredibly.

[Kent]

Originally Posted by raid

I have lots of FD glass,

A NEX is fantastic for that BTW.

[Spanik]

Not the NEX-3 I have here. Worst camera I ever had. You cannot do anything without the menus, no way to hold it, looks good one the screen until you take a photo with it.

[Keith]

Nice idea ... in the meantime I'm happy to keep using my D700 knowing it's built like a tank by a company with a long history of camera manufacturing. I can also get by with the range of F mount lenses at my disposal.

Considering that the Chinese are now in the space race and plan to have their own space station by 2020 they should be able to manage this small task though!

[digitalintrigue]

To pull this off they need a sensor. They'd have to buy from Sony, most likely.

But if you have old glass and want a Sony sensor, just adapt your lenses to one of the SLTs...

[scottsa]

Study why many Auto manufacturers were (some still are) willing to release sub-standard build-quality and poor design and you'll answer many modern questions.

Many things are doable. Some have touched upon vision and will, others upon practicality and feasibility.

In the end, it all has to do with sustainability and the bottom line which are both part of the profitability equation.

But as with Steve Jobs, "not invented here" seems to be a big factor too. Right Fuji, Canon, Nikon...?

[bgb]

I think it would be nice if Cosina updated the Epson R-D1, I'm sure it could be done but will it or should it is a matter for those who will spend the money.

If they did would anyone buy it?

Why start from scratch when most of the work has been done?

[CK Dexter Haven]

In my limited experience with Chinese manufacturers (as "I Love Film" — also in the mktg/adv + product design field)... I don't think they're tremendously interested in pioneering a concept like this. They'd be happy to build it if someone paid them to. Secondly, would a China-branded product have a significant chance in the marketplace? They'd need a branding and marketing effort to give the product non-gimmick validation, and that would require a campaign also run by an outsider.

Looking at these new lenses being released that fit the m4/3 and NEX, by 'off-brand' companies... in my mind, they seem like usable or even quality optics. But, a consumer commitment to a sensor-based piece of technology seems to be more intense than a purchase of a lens. These lenses may perform at levels that match 'major brand' products, but are they ever going to be embraced by enough of the general public to make their manufacturers into the kinds of companies that garner respect and brand loyalty? They seem almost like fly-by-night enterprises. People don't buy multi-thousand dollar cameras from companies like that.

Cosina would have to do it. And, they'd have to do it soon. Before Canon or Nikon are forced into those markets. At some point, as auto-everything, AF digital completely obliterates the film market, and the consumers lose all interest in manually focusing those 'vintage' lenses, it won't matter if there is a glut of Canon FD glass available on Ebay. The folks who care about that stuff are getting older. And, we're getting more used to mod cons. As the current tech gets better and better, there will be fewer and fewer compromises associated with, say AF. If the Fuji XPro 2 has killer AF, won't the need/desire for this 'digital FE' be diminished? That market segment will still be buying the Fuji, and the Canon Mx, and the Nikon Md, and such... and those dollars come out of the digital FE fund. And, then, the only thing the FE-D has going for it is nostalgia.

[mgilbuena]

An FM-style body has been my dream for years. A full-frame mirrorless mount with adapters for various lenses would be ideal; otherwise, the m42 mount has many legacy lenses and would work well. If not a true SLR, the electronic viewfinder would allow one to use legacy lenses without stopping down for metering.

Though I would prefer to not have an LCD screen, I understand the market would demand it. Thus, I suggest a flip out screen that would allow waist-level shooting and allow the screen to flip backward to hide the LCD altogether.

Would love a camera power efficient enough to use AA batteries for 1000 shots.

Here's to dreaming!

[jsrockit]

Isn't the clear point here that there are many in the niche realm who would like a small SLR with classic aperture rings and shutter speed dials?

[Griffin]

You had me at manual cocking

[I Love Film]

I believe it would be successful, and carry over to a non-niche market.

[jarski]

it would have to compete with used full frame bodies like D700 and 5D series (thats easy to use with almost any old manual lens out there), as well as latest models ofcourse. would retro looks be enough for it to be profitable? Leica does that but in easier market with less competition.

Chinese manufacture may be cheap, but quality control must be very good, because this enthusiast market would not tolerate bad news. any negative rumor on web and it would be "M8 IR-issue" repeated. so would Chinese manufacturing still be cheap enough?

am skeptical, but not in "so if it were so easy, why dont you do it yourself" -crowd

[KoNickon]

I still think the idea that was very briefly marketed some years ago with a "drop in" sensor that fit into existing film SLRs (looked like a film cassette with the sensor sticking out and covering the film gate) was a very promising approach. No LCD screen preview, but I could live without that. Presumably there'd be some accompanying accessory preview screen that you could attach the sensor to after you take it out of the camera. Maybe some function where a signal light could show through the window newer film SLRs have that show there's a film cassette loaded in the camera. (Failing that, maybe some sort of audible signal indicating "image has been written to memory; OK to shoot.") Has anyone taken another look at that? With a decent full frame sensor I think a lot of people would be pretty happy -- it could be used in practically any existing 35mm body, and no need to be concerned about building different bodies for different lens mounts.

That's my particular pipe dream!

[I Love Film]

This was a vaporware company and persistent internet hoax.

I believe maybe they displayed one non-working model at some show.

http://cultureandcommunication.org/d...p/Silicon_Film

Originally Posted by KoNickon

I still think the idea that was very briefly marketed some years ago with a "drop in" sensor that fit into existing film SLRs (looked like a film cassette with the sensor sticking out and covering the film gate) was a very promising approach. No LCD screen preview, but I could live without that. Presumably there'd be some accompanying accessory preview screen that you could attach the sensor to after you take it out of the camera. Maybe some function where a signal light could show through the window newer film SLRs have that show there's a film cassette loaded in the camera. (Failing that, maybe some sort of audible signal indicating "image has been written to memory; OK to shoot.") Has anyone taken another look at that? With a decent full frame sensor I think a lot of people would be pretty happy -- it could be used in practically any existing 35mm body, and no need to be concerned about building different bodies for different lens mounts.

That's my particular pipe dream!

[Colin Corneau]

Reality is often mixed up with cold water. Epson/Cosina had the RD-1, as has been mentioned numerous times and they didn't see fit to keep the line going. What does that tell you?

I know, I know...an established company that did all the work you mention (and more) doesn't know what you do. Sure.

There's the NEX line, there's Nikon's fine line of DSLR's and there's the fact that no established company has seen the business case in this niche.

You can call that cold water, or you can do what I do and just go out and shoot.

Originally Posted by I Love Film

Maybe, or maybe not.

Ideas are a dime a dozen.

Someone has to be the first to act on an idea, apparently you like to throw cold water on any speculation.

Like Steve Jobs said, the public doesn't know what it wants until you put it in their hand.

[I Love Film]

According to an interview with Isao Edatsune, who created the R-D1 at Epson, and has his name in the camera with the EdiArt chip, the R-D1 was a commercial success, but not in the numbers that impressed Epson, a mega company.

Even so, a full frame R-D2 was in the works, but Isao Edatsune was promoted out of the imaging division, and the product was shelved. He simply had no time to mastermind it.

Here is a link I found with more info, but unfortunately, the interview I quote was in translated Japanese and I can't find it.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...=32473.10;wap2

http://translate.google.com/translat...d1.htm&act=url

Originally Posted by Colin Corneau

Reality is often mixed up with cold water. Epson/Cosina had the RD-1, as has been mentioned numerous times and they didn't see fit to keep the line going. What does that tell you?

I know, I know...an established company that did all the work you mention (and more) doesn't know what you do. Sure.

There's the NEX line, there's Nikon's fine line of DSLR's and there's the fact that no established company has seen the business case in this niche.

You can call that cold water, or you can do what I do and just go out and shoot.

[Spanik]

To pull this off they need a sensor. They'd have to buy from Sony, most likely.

Far easier to go to Dalsa, they have no interest in camera's, only in sensors. Don't know if they make something as small as a FF