Would you buy a new M9 in 2012??

[leicashot]

I would bet most people's ability to shoot great pictures will outdate faster than the M9 ....sorry couldn't resist

[Peter Wijninga]

Other than the R-D1 it remains the only true digital rangefinder...the USD 1,000 discount from Dale on the M9-p is attractive. This said, I just spent 7 weeks with the Fuji X100 -a rangefinder it is not but that system kicks some serious ass.

[semordnilap]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

There's no point in buying an M9 now.

Unless, of course, you want to make photos with a full-frame digital rangefinder camera now.

This!!!!!!!!!

[semordnilap]

Originally Posted by leicashot

I would bet most people's ability to shoot great pictures will outdate faster than the M9 ....sorry couldn't resist

And this too

It's a race to decrepitude... which will go first, the camera or your eyes?

[leicashot]

My bet is that the M10 will be US$7995, so people may change their views. If Nikon and Canon's top cameras keep climbing in price, I think it's fair to assume that Leica will follow.

[fstops]

Leica's main market today is east Asia, mainly China. Any new Leica camera will be purchased there simply for the pride of ownership as a luxury product irrespective of price.

Leica does not care about any other camera company, because Leica competes on brand equity and not features and utility... In short, Leica prices will keep going up even if it means cheap FF cameras are released by other companies, but at the same time used digital Leica will be sold more cheaply since those cameras no longer have their brand new luxury product attraction to east asian market.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by custom875

With the recent discount would you buy one?

No, I've already got one.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by fstops

. . . Leica competes on brand equity and not features and utility...

So... where are all the other full-frame rangefinder cameras?

FF RF sounds very like features and utility to me.

Cheers,

R.

[froyd]

Originally Posted by fstops

Leica's main market today is east Asia, mainly China. . Any new Leica camera will be purchased there simply for the pride of ownership as a luxury product irrespective of price.

Perhaps, but last quarter the USA showed the same growth as the Asian markets and there's has been a number of recent new store openings in the US.

Special edition $25,000 Leicas are definitely destined to rich collectors but the meat-and-bones M6, M7, M8, and M9 are in the hands of people who actually use them.

If I could justify the expense of both purchase and maintenance, I would definitely spring for an M9. It's the only FF RF on the market and manual-focus RF photography is what appeals to me more than other types of photography.

[Tom Niblick]

Maybe. I need a second body. The only hesitation is M8.2 vs MM vs M9.

I'll wait until the M10 is out and the price of used M bodies falls. The $1,000 price drop on the M9P tells me that a M10 will arrive soon. When it does, I'll choose the model depending on my available funds. Right now, it looks like a M8.2 but if a nice chrome M9P pops up at a great price, or even a black M9 at $4,000, I may have to go for it.

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by fstops

Leica's main market today is east Asia, mainly China. Any new Leica camera will be purchased there simply for the pride of ownership as a luxury product irrespective of price.

Leica does not care about any other camera company, because Leica competes on brand equity and not features and utility... In short, Leica prices will keep going up even if it means cheap FF cameras are released by other companies, but at the same time used digital Leica will be sold more cheaply since those cameras no longer have their brand new luxury product attraction to east asian market.

Leica does care about what other companies are doing. How could they not?

If Nikon and Canon have cameras' prices positioned near their own, they will also increase there's in order to maintain their product positioning strategy. Regardless of features and technology, Leica needs to maintain a high price/perception of quality compared to it's competitors.

During the film days, this was not a problem, but today Leica simply cannot ignore their competition in a market driven by technology, an area Leica can no longer afford to ignore.

[umcelinho]

bring on the sub $4k M9

[fstops]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

So... where are all the other full-frame rangefinder cameras?

FF RF sounds very like features and utility to me.

Cheers,

R.

Even if VC made a full frame bessa, people are not going to pay $7000 for it, even if it was a better camera than M9. A good proof of this is film bessas.

Leica sells the Leica experience and Leica pride of ownership; therefore, it can charge a premium.

[fstops]

Originally Posted by froyd

Perhaps, but last quarter the USA showed the same growth as the Asian markets and there's has been a number of recent new store openings in the US.

Special edition $25,000 Leicas are definitely destined to rich collectors but the meat-and-bones M6, M7, M8, and M9 are in the hands of people who actually use them.

If I could justify the expense of both purchase and maintenance, I would definitely spring for an M9. It's the only FF RF on the market and manual-focus RF photography is what appeals to me more than other types of photography.

I'm not sure about US market numbers and how you got them, but when M Monochrom was announced its first reviews were done in east Asia and its first testers were in China. In fact you can check the MM professional review thread in this forum.

[fstops]

Originally Posted by leicashot

Leica does care about what other companies are doing. How could they not?

If Nikon and Canon have cameras' prices positioned near their own, they will also increase there's in order to maintain their product positioning strategy. Regardless of features and technology, Leica needs to maintain a high price/perception of quality compared to it's competitors.

During the film days, this was not a problem, but today Leica simply cannot ignore their competition in a market driven by technology, an area Leica can no longer afford to ignore.

Leica is a luxury brand and therefore it can get away with releasing a camera like X2 and charging that amount of money for it, because people who buy Leica are not thinking they could get a better product somewhere else and cheaper, they're thinking, I'm owning a Leica and that itself is worth the premium.

[jky]

Originally Posted by fstops

because people who buy Leica are not thinking they could get a better product somewhere else and cheaper, they're thinking, I'm owning a Leica and that itself is worth the premium.

I actually increased the circumference of that red dot so it's much more visible from further away.

And when I lift the camera to my face, it's only so the l-e-i-c-a is legible.

----> I've always wanted to use this and now have found a reason to...

[umcelinho]

has it occured to you at some point that maybe people would prefer using rangefinders and the M9 is the only full frame digital rangefinder? I myself have an R-D1 and it's a great camera, but I'd prefer to use my lenses in full frame, there is simply no other option. It's a niche and as the only player they can do whatever they feel like, really.

regarding generalising on people buying the leica brand instead of leica features I disagree, there will be always those who will buy for status, but I believe the majority buy for the actual features. that wouldn't apply to panaleicas though, where I agree that the red dot just doesn't make any real difference apart from the price tag.

[fstops]

Fair enough, if Leica purchase is based on features and value, then why would someone pay $2000 for X2 and not go for Nex-7, OM-D, X100, Xpro1 or any other APS-C compact camera? At least these alternative have an EVF not to mention interchangeable lens mounts.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy a X2 and not the Fuji X100? At half the price.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by umcelinho

but I believe the majority buy for the actual features. .

or lack of features... which can be the best type of feature.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by fstops

Fair enough, if Leica purchase is based on features and value, then why would someone pay $2000 for X2 and not go for Nex-7, OM-D, X100, Xpro1 or any other APS-C compact camera? At least these alternative have an EVF not to mention interchangeable lens mounts.

Well, for one thing, the Nex-7 and OM-D do not have dedicated knobs and aperture rings (for the most part). The menus are convoluted as well. Additionally, the X2 is still simpler than both of the Fujis and is smaller and lighter than all of them.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy a X2 and not the Fuji X100? At half the price.

I prefer the X100 as well... but the X2 is more elegant and is still smaller and lighter. These things matter to some.

I think what you need to realize is that what you expect from a camera, or what you think is important in a camera, is not the same for everyone. Also, people buy and use multiple cameras... so it isn't a this versus that argument most of the time. Lastly, some people just have a lot more cash than others. The difference of $1000 might seem like a lot to us, but could be nothing to someone else.

[SuperUJ]

Originally Posted by fstops

Leica's main market today is east Asia, mainly China. Any new Leica camera will be purchased there simply for the pride of ownership as a luxury product irrespective of price.

There are quite a few assumptions and generalization in only a couple of sentences. They reminded me about a number of posts in photo.net, which I haven't logged on for years.

John

[willie_901]

Originally Posted by fstops

Fair enough, if Leica purchase is based on features and value, then why would someone pay $2000 for X2 and not go for Nex-7, OM-D, X100, Xpro1 or any other APS-C compact camera? At least these alternative have an EVF not to mention interchangeable lens mounts.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy a X2 and not the Fuji X100? At half the price.

This is a mystery to me as well.

I can only speculate the Leica brand is simply an overpowering factor for some photographers. Hats off to Leica for creating and maintaining such a high level of brand loyalty.

[SuperUJ]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

Additionally, the X2 is still simpler than both of the Fujis and is smaller and lighter than all of them.

John- I saw someone using a X2 on the Fifth Ave mid-town NYC the other day. I felt G.A.S. inside me, especially it has the leather case on it. I went home and decided not to go back to that part of the city for a very long time.

John

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by SuperUJ

John- I saw someone using a X2 on the Fifth Ave mid-town NYC the other day. I felt G.A.S. inside me, especially it has the leather case on it. I went home and decided not to go back to that part of the city for a very long time.

John

John, you certainly don't need a X2. It is quite beautiful though...

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by fstops

Leica's main market today is east Asia, mainly Leica'sased there simply for the pride of ownership as a luxury product irrespective of price.

Leica does not care about any other camera company, because Leica competes on brand equity and not features and utility... In short, Leica prices will keep going up even if it means cheap FF cameras are released by other companies, but at the same time used digital Leica will be sold more cheaply since those cameras no longer have their brand new luxury product attraction to east asian market.

Leica's main market is still Germany...