40 on the m4-p...a question

back alley · 08-12-2012

would the 35 or 50 mm framelines be a better fit?

Spicy · 08-12-2012

I saw somewhere that the outside of the 50 is a decent approximation if you don't want to miss anything. Inside of the 35 if you want to frame really tight, though you'll cut off things regularly.

I know you just picked up the M4-P, but if you're looking to do a lot of work at 40mm, an R3M/R3A might be a better fit. Saw one with a lens in the classifieds today, might be worth a PM to investigate body-only...

back alley · 08-12-2012

i have been using the 40 on rd1 for ages w/o problem...it fits the 35mm frameline nicely...just wondering about the m4-p now...no more film bodies for me.

presspass · 08-12-2012

If you want it to bring up the 35 frame, you can file the flange that brings that frame up. There have been instructions here to do that, but I don't remember where they are. I haven't done that for my M6s, I just use the 50 frame it brings up and guess; so far, that's worked fine.

back alley · 08-12-2012

my 40 is ltm...i can just change the adapter...

it's the framelines on the m4-p that i am asking about....which fit a 40 better?
the 35 or the 50?

kemal_mumcu · 08-12-2012

Well, when I had a 40 on my M2 I used the smaller 50 lines. I find its easier to frame tight knowing that the lens will capture more than the frame shows. It encourages you to get closer, which is a good thing eh!

In the end, maybe because it was my first ever RF combo, I just couldn't mentally make peace with the framelines being wrong. I think now it would bother me less.

Great find for you Joe! Glad to hear you've got a Leica again.

Godfrey · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

would the 35 or 50 mm framelines be a better fit?

With 40mm Nokton or M-Rokkor on M4-2, I find the 35mm framelines about right given my eyeglasses and what they do to my eye point with respect to the illuminated frames. I haven't filed the tab to bring them up instead of the 50mm, however, so I tend to just frame tightly with the 50mm framelines and get a little extra on the film.

sevres_babylone · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by kemal_mumcu

Well, when I had a 40 on my M2 I used the smaller 50 lines. I find its easier to frame tight knowing that the lens will capture more than the frame shows. ...

That's my feeling on the M9 with the Nokton. i was going to have someone file it, but then I actually tried it with the 50mm frameiines, and it's okay. You're lucky having the ltm, because as was mentioned, you can experiment with different adapters.

back alley · 08-12-2012

i ask because i have read about frameline changes in various m bodies...but i don't recall which has larger/smaller ones...
i understand using 35 or 50 and tighter vs not as tight framing...my question comes from fl sizing differences.

Godfrey · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

i ask because i have read about frameline changes in various m bodies...but i don't recall which has larger/smaller ones...
i understand using 35 or 50 and tighter vs not as tight framing...my question comes from fl sizing differences.

Step back, you're getting too close to the edge ... :-)

The viewfinder framelines are all just approximations anyway. Splitting hairs to such a fine degree leads nowhere.

The only thing to do is to fit the lens to your camera and work with it using both the 35 and 50 framelines for a bit. See what it does and which way makes you most comfortable using this lens on that camera body.

I see you have an LTM lens ... if you buy a 50mm adapter, you can file the tab and make it a 35mm adapter in about ten seconds. You can go back easily by buying another adapter.

When you know what the lens sees, and when you learn what the viewfinder sees, you use the viewfinder as it is used best ... a pointing device ... and let your mind's eye guide the framing that it knows the lens will produce.

Rob-F · 08-12-2012

I had an early M4-P. The framelines were right for the 35mm lens. I believe that sometime during production of the M4-P, the framelines may have been reduced in size. There is no question that the 40 is a better match for the 35mm framelines in the M6, M7, and MP; such is not necessarily the case with the M4-P. I think that is because the M4-P began production before the M6, then continued in production after the M6 began. My understanding is that during later M4-P production, the smaller frameline masks of the M6 were used in both cameras.

Joe, I think you are going to have to try one lens or the other to see for yourself. BTW, do you know the serial number of the M4-P you are waiting for?

gb hill · 08-12-2012

This is why I like the Bessa's over the Leica's. One can simply flip a switch to bring up whichever FL they choose. Very convienient when shooting a 40mm. on a camera with 35 & 50mm framelines.

back alley · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by gb hill

This is why I like the Bessa's over the Leica's. One can simply flip a switch to bring up whichever FL they choose. Very convienient when shooting a 40mm. on a camera with 35 & 50mm framelines.

same with the rd1...

back alley · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-F

I had an early M4-P. The framelines were right for the 35mm lens. I believe that sometime during production of the M4-P, the framelines may have been reduced in size. There is no question that the 40 is a better match for the 35mm framelines in the M6, M7, and MP; such is not necessarily the case with the M4-P. I think that is because the M4-P began production before the M6, then continued in production after the M6 began. My understanding is that during later M4-P production, the smaller frameline masks of the M6 were used in both cameras.

Joe, I think you are going to have to try one lens or the other to see for yourself. BTW, do you know the serial number of the M4-P you are waiting for?

1621694
born on 4/83...

back alley · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey

Step back, you're getting too close to the edge ... :-)

The viewfinder framelines are all just approximations anyway. Splitting hairs to such a fine degree leads nowhere.

The only thing to do is to fit the lens to your camera and work with it using both the 35 and 50 framelines for a bit. See what it does and which way makes you most comfortable using this lens on that camera body.

I see you have an LTM lens ... if you buy a 50mm adapter, you can file the tab and make it a 35mm adapter in about ten seconds. You can go back easily by buying another adapter.

When you know what the lens sees, and when you learn what the viewfinder sees, you use the viewfinder as it is used best ... a pointing device ... and let your mind's eye guide the framing that it knows the lens will produce.

i'm not normally ever in persuit of the accurate...
just killing time till the camera arrives...

FrankS · 08-12-2012

Even on my M2, a model that definitely does not have the smaller M6 framelines, I prefer the 35mm framelines for my 40mm Nokton. YMMV

Godfrey · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

i'm not normally ever in persuit of the accurate...
just killing time till the camera arrives...

Oh, I thought it was a serious question. I only usually ask questions when I *need* to know something.

(Just bought another CL body, last one I sold in '99 or '00, and waiting for it to arrive ... the perfect body film body to use a 40mm lens on, that's what the viewfinder was designed for. :-)

back alley · 08-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfrey

Oh, I thought it was a serious question. I only usually ask questions when I *need* to know something.

(Just bought another CL body, last one I sold in '99 or '00, and waiting for it to arrive ... the perfect body film body to use a 40mm lens on, that's what the viewfinder was designed for. :-)

sorry if you feel that you wasted your time...i am curious but impatient to find the answer by experience as i have to wait for the camera to arrive.

buzzardkid · 08-14-2012

If afraid of wasting time, spending time on a forum is not a wise thing to start with...

rulnacco · 08-15-2012

I just recently got an M-Rokkor and have tried it with:

1) The 50 framelines on my M6 (which are what it brings up)
2) The 35 framelines on my M6
3) Using the 50 framelines on my M3
4) Using the whole viewfinder on my M3, with gaffer tape over the frameline illumination window to blank out the 50 framelines

Of those four methods, the one that works by far the best--for me--has been number 2. I get pretty accurate framing by composing just a bit inside the framelines, and find that easier than using the 50 framelines and trying to estimate how much outside them will be in the final image.

The only difficulty is making the 35 framelines come up. I'd rather not modify the lens to make that happen, as that process is pretty much irreversible. So the best alternate method I've found--in a post here--is to take the lid of a plastic film container and cut a pie-shaped piece out of the round lid--the black Ilford tops work quite well, and blend in with the vulcanite. Then you can use that to wedge the frameline selector lever in the 35 mm position by bracing the rounded end against the lens mount--it's non-destructive (except to the film cap) and does the same thing as manually moving the lever to try different framings so does no harm to the camera.

Godfrey · 08-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rulnacco

... So the best alternate method I've found--in a post here--is to take the lid of a plastic film container and cut a pie-shaped piece out of the round lid--the black Ilford tops work quite well, and blend in with the vulcanite. Then you can use that to wedge the frameline selector lever in the 35 mm position by bracing the rounded end against the lens mount--it's non-destructive (except to the film cap) and does the same thing as manually moving the lever to try different framings so does no harm to the camera.

That's a neat kluge, I like it!

I just bought another CL body ... now the 40mm lens FoV will be perfectly matched. There's always *some* rationale for spending money. ];-)

Godfrey · 08-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by back alley

sorry if you feel that you wasted your time...i am curious but impatient to find the answer by experience as i have to wait for the camera to arrive.

Didn't feel like I wasted my time, I just didn't realize that your question wasn't of a high order priority.

ferider · 08-16-2012

Hey Joe, a pic says more than 1000 words ....

This is on my M2 using both 35 Summicron and 40 Nokton:

Most M4Ps (except the very last ones) have the same 35mm frame-lines as the M2.

Roland.

back alley · 08-16-2012

thanks roland...i actually checked out your smugmug pics b4...

i think i will go with the 35fl for the 40...looking for an approprite adapter now...i am picking up a dag serviced canon 50/1.4 over the weekend and it may be mated to the m4-p...no decisions yet.