When photography becomes work ...

[Darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Keith

That's interesting! I seem to remember RFFer darkhorse, who we haven't heard from for a while, photographs coins for a living.

I noticed this thread at around 5am Texas time, trapped in Houston airport back from the American Numismatic Association's big summer trade show in Philadelphia. I was there taking hundreds and thousands of photographs of coins, as well as shooting video (and other operational tasks with my company).

Does it feel like work? Yes, when I'm stranded at an airport, having missed the last flights to the Southland. But I like photography and, probably more importantly, coins enough to make it worthwhile. I can really throw my heart into it, and get reciprocation; You wouldn't believe the fans I have, there are threads on various internet forums discussing my work even. It's kind of strange.

[buzzardkid]

Originally Posted by Darkhorse

I noticed this thread at around 5am Texas time, trapped in Houston airport back from the American Numismatic Association's big summer trade show in Philadelphia. I was there taking hundreds and thousands of photographs of coins, as well as shooting video (and other operational tasks with my company).

Does it feel like work? Yes, when I'm stranded at an airport, having missed the last flights to the Southland. But I like photography and, probably more importantly, coins enough to make it worthwhile. I can really throw my heart into it, and get reciprocation; You wouldn't believe the fans I have, there are threads on various internet forums discussing my work even. It's kind of strange.

That is cool!

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Keith

... it becomes far more rewarding and interesting.

Just my personal experience ... how do others feel?

Depends on the work: police giving you the dirty look, people getting in front of you so they could take their shot with their iPhone is not more rewarding, but definitely interesting. And don't get me started on bridezilla, or even worse, motherzilla of the bridezilla.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by emraphoto

I shoot what I want, when I want and suffer the interference of nobody. You like/want to buy? Great! Don't like/not gonna buy? Not my problem.

I am a very, very lucky guy. I love my job and work for myself. Even my last job... 'wanna go in for a couple of weeks for us'?

'yup'

'ok. Talk to you later'

I do agree with the folks keeping it separate though. If I ever had to go back to someone consoling what I do or how I photograph I would quit in seconds.

Wow, your people are hiring? I've never had the kind of access you have, so obviously my Catch-22 portfolio may not cut it.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.

Wow, your people are hiring? I've never had the kind of access you have, so obviously my Catch-22 portfolio may not cut it.

There are no 'my people' gladly. Unless of course you have owed me $ for longer than my patience stretches. Then I send over 'my people'.

[gb hill]

I don't have the self confidence to do much any work professionally. For me it's a hobby. I have shot a couple of weddings & it was pretty fun. One wedding I actually got paid. I think I'll stick to driving a truck though.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by gb hill

I don't have the self confidence to do much any work professionally. For me it's a hobby. I have shot a couple of weddings & it was pretty fun. One wedding I actually got paid. I think I'll stick to driving a truck though.

That has always been my choice of profession should the current not pan out. Truck Driver. Good stereo, open those windows and see the country.

[Darkhorse]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

That is cool!

I think it is... I wish my assistant thought so.

My interest in photography outside of this work has been waning. But it's part of a cycle, at certain times I'll focus on photography, at other times I'll focus more on artwork. I'm more interested in artwork (watercolors) at this time.

[KM-25]

Originally Posted by emraphoto

I shoot what I want, when I want and suffer the interference of nobody. You like/want to buy? Great! Don't like/not gonna buy? Not my problem.

I am a very, very lucky guy. I love my job and work for myself. Even my last job... 'wanna go in for a couple of weeks for us'?

'yup'

'ok. Talk to you later'

I do agree with the folks keeping it separate though. If I ever had to go back to someone consoling what I do or how I photograph I would quit in seconds.

Pretty much the same boat I am in and I feel the same "Wow am I lucky!" feeling you do more and more everyday. It's truly amazing to me, I know tons of guys in my area clawing for work, but because I stayed true to my self and put money far down on the list of priorities, it has never been better.

There comes a point when you know you are safe, you have enough work so you relax and then your work gets much better, feeding the energy that draws people in. It's the opposite of a vicious circle, being pure creative momentum...

People who truly love what they do never tire of even the most pedestrian parts of daily life, they live for the whole package.

[Contarama]

Originally Posted by emraphoto

Truck Driver. Good stereo, open those windows and see the country.

Man that sounds good for some reason.

[Richard G]

I don't do this for a living of course. But I see what Keith means. There's nothing quite like having a skill, having it valued, including in dollars, and professionally having to find solutions to problems because that's what's expected. Those demands end up taking you away from what's comfortable and you learn. I read a book on Elliott Erwitt years ago. What a professional he was. And I used often to visit the Wedding section of photo.net. Some of those guys are real pros too. Nothing left to chance. A solution for every problem. Scared me off weddings altogether.

[Keith]

My first post was probably a little misleading in that I'm not necessarilly refering to a nose to the grindstone five day a week job. It's more to do with structure and purpose for me ... when I'm required to do something I feel more comfortable and tend not to drift from my task in the way I can when I have total freedom to do so. The infrequent jobs I get from QUT are poorly paid to be truthful but in spite of that I gain an immense sense of satisfaction from them ... far more than just going off on some jaunt of my own volition!

The couple of days I spent recently at a motocross meeting were purely to photograph specific bikes owned by an individual who sponsors a rider to compete on them ... he wanted shots of his toys being used basically. I would never go to something like this normally because it wouldn't really interest me ... but with a specific purpose in mind I found it very enjoyable and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Also I don't come from a photographic background at all so pretty much everything offered to me presents a new challenge.

[john341]

I did child and wedding photography when I was at Uni .. disliked it. Photography when you feel like it..experimental stuff..thats for me

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Keith

. . . It's more to do with structure and purpose for me ...

Dear Keith,

Ah, yes, now I see what you mean. Yes, it is a great deal easier and more motivating when you have a purpose in mind, though for me for the last 30+ years that purpose has been publication in one form or another. But what I try to get published is what I like photographing...

And I'm currently working on ideas for exhibitions.

Cheers,

R.

[Spanik]

Wouldn't like it. Now it's a hobby, I do it if and when I like and shoot whatever I like. If there came pressure on it I wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I have made my hobby into work once (electronics) and believe me after having to spend 8+ hours a day at it there isn't any fun left in it to do it again in the evening. Even if what you can do then is your own choice, not that of clients. So now I like to take photo's instead of an electronics project.

[Darkhorse]

Originally Posted by Keith

Also I don't come from a photographic background at all so pretty much everything offered to me presents a new challenge.

Same here. I did take a traditional photography course back in university but that's it. I basically got to where I am today taking snaps of coins with an archaic digital point and shoot with some desk lamps and basic Photoshop skills. Now people expect professional results for everything in every subject from me now. "Photo Phil" they call me at work.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

One is that just about any job involves doing some things you don't like.

+1 ... once reality takes over fantasy.

[giellaleafapmu]

To me professional work (even at the low low level at which I practice it, as a side job) had one invaluable feature: it obliged me to learn how to make a decent picture of things I wouldn't otherwise photograph. This skill helps me a lot with any photography, job or not.

When you are given fast food you wouldn't probably eat and are asked to make look it delicious you have to learn your craft at a level you wouldn't probably learn if you were not forced.

This for me included in particular using artificial light (something I could not stand when I started) and "make up" (in my case food make up but I guess it must be similar for those working with models).

Having said all this, after learning the skills, the most enjoyable way to use them is in a personal projects, not at work.

GLF

[KM-25]

I love how people kid them selves on these kinds of threads, basically saying they have more fun with their photo hobby than a National Geographic Photographer does on a brilliant assignment.

Face reality guys, if you were as good and as famous as some of the people you all talk about, you would love photography as a profession far, far more then 99% of those who do it as a hobby.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by KM-25

I love how people kid them selves on these kinds of threads, basically saying they have more fun with their photo hobby than a National Geographic Photographer does on a brilliant assignment.

Face reality guys, if you were as good and as famous as some of the people you all talk about, you would love photography as a profession far, far more then 99% of those who do it as a hobby.

How can you speak for everyone? Perhaps some of us aren't into National Geographic or prefer not to travel for work.

The bottom line is that some of us like photography as that escape from work and like to do it on our own terms.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by KM-25

I love how people kid them selves on these kinds of threads, basically saying they have more fun with their photo hobby than a National Geographic Photographer does on a brilliant assignment.

Face reality guys, if you were as good and as famous as some of the people you all talk about, you would love photography as a profession far, far more then 99% of those who do it as a hobby.

No, I don't think they're saying that. I read it more as "Even if you shoot for National Geographic [or shoot Pirelli calendars, or whatever], life ain't always perfect, and you have to do stuff you don't want to do."

Staying in a village in the Himalayas with no toilets (anywhere in the village): yeah, OK, done that. I'd rather have stayed somewhere more comfortable, but it's better than being an accountant, and it was worth it for the pictures. Filing my quarterly VAT (Valued Added Tax) returns? Hell, that IS being an accountant.

If I were a rich accountant, and could stand accountancy, I might prefer to stick with the day job too. But different people have different priorities. The fact that a steady, dull job is neither your first choice nor mine does not mean we can speak authoritatively about what others think.

Cheers,

R.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

No, I don't think they're saying that. I read it more as "Even if you shoot for National Geographic [or shoot Pirelli calendars, or whatever], life ain't always perfect, and you have to do stuff you don't want to do."

Staying in a village in the Himalayas with no toilets (anywhere in the village): yeah, OK, done that. I'd rather have stayed somewhere more comfortable, but it's better than being an accountant, and it was worth it for the pictures. Filing my quarterly VAT (Valued Added Tax) returns? Hell, that IS being an accountant.

If I were a rich accountant, and could stand accountancy, I might prefer to stick with the day job too. But different people have different priorities. The fact that a steady, dull job is neither your first choice nor mine does not mean we can speak authoritatively about what others think.

Cheers,

R.

i am often struck by how difficult situations like your Himalayan experience are. i mean i am a pretty seasoned 'off the grid' type but really, that sort of environment starts to become very, very difficult unless you were born into it or have spent a great deal of time acclimatizing. when you are on a timeframe for assignments it can be down right maddening. throw in the often different pace of negations in cultures outside our own? i have about a 60 day threshold.

[emraphoto]

add that some of the photographers i consider to be super innovative, driven and exceptional talents have zero interest in doing it for a living.

[Spanik]

I love how people kid them selves on these kinds of threads, basically saying they have more fun with their photo hobby than a National Geographic Photographer does on a brilliant assignment.

Face reality guys, if you were as good and as famous as some of the people you all talk about, you would love photography as a profession far, far more then 99% of those who do it as a hobby.

How can you be so sure those brilliant photographers enjoyed what they did? For them it is work with a deadline and great expectations from the clients. You have to perform whatever the assignment and at least as good as last time. No goofing off trying out some alternative, you're on someone's payroll.

If I feel like taking the C330 out and it turns to be a wrong choice, so what? I might have enjoyed the day out without any photo's. But if they expect some glorious stuff at your return, would you enjoy it?

[KM-25]

Originally Posted by Spanik

How can you be so sure those brilliant photographers enjoyed what they did? For them it is work with a deadline and great expectations from the clients. You have to perform whatever the assignment and at least as good as last time. No goofing off trying out some alternative, you're on someone's payroll.

How? Because I know at least a dozen of them on a personal level, we talk about this stuff and get a good chuckle out of it,

The reason I posted what I did is that it is often the way these topics come off sounding, simply put that pros do not enjoy photography as much as hobby shooters do.

For example, I am a pretty decent guitar player, but I do it for my self and have never entertained the idea of bieng a rock star. But when I see someone like Stevie Ray Vaughn ripping it, the energy of the crowd, the life lived to the fullest, I would be kidding my self to say that would not be a great life.

That's really all I meant, that at least some on here are likely *Fully* kidding them selves.